Question about Rivets

[BeckyK]

I have a 1973 ECO (Boler like) I'm missing a couple of rivets and a few seem to be raised. What do I do? Thanks

[wwig]

Hey Becky,
You should be able to find some instructional videos on YouTube regarding how to remove and replace rivets it's pretty straight forward. Peace!

[BeckyK]

Thanks

[k corbin]

I do recommend to everyone who has never drilled out or installed a rivet to get some just to practice with. That way you can make your mistakes on something that is not important and doing so takes all the stress out of it.

Be sure you match the drill size to the rivet size. When removing them drill more slowly that you would for putting in a hole but you will need to use a fair amount of pressure to get the bit to bite into the metal. As you get close to the depth of the head stop to look and see if you are centered over the opening, if not you can tilt the drill so that the tip is pointing towards the direction the hole needs to be moved, then after you have pushed it that way you straighten the drill back up. When you are very close do bit of a wiggle with the drill as you work, that will pop the head off without going too deep and enlarging the hole.

The next thing to do is to drive out the remaining shank of the rivet. I use a drive pin punch that is matched to the diameter of the rivet and the hole. It won't enlarge the hole. A nail set does not work nearly as well as a proper drive pin punch which was specifically designed to drive a shaft out of a hole. Because a nail set is tapered it will tend to slip into the hollow center and then push the outside walls of the rivet shaft tight against the edges of the hole it is in which can cause the hole to enlarge and also make it more difficult to remove the rivet shaft.

Drive pin punches can be purchased individually at regular neighborhood type of hardware stores. Don't bother with looking for individual ones in big box stores such as Home Depot as they only sell the punches in full sets and that gets a bit pricey unless you have an ongoing need for such a thing.

This lesson comes to you from a real life Rosie the riveter who did it for a living

[BeckyK]

What size rivets will I use on the belly band? Will the outer shell be the same or different?
Thank you for the information.
a real life Rosie I love it

[Talia]

If they're aluminum rivets, you may not even need to drill them out. On my '72 Compact Jr, I simply took a nice sharp painter's multitool, carefully slid it under the head of the rivet, and with a tap from a hammer, it cuts the head right off with no damage to the surrounding area. Then just push the rest of it out with a nail-set or something of the sort. No drilling, no fuss, no muss.

[Island Claire]

Hi Becky,

A couple of tips about this site. There is a way to mark this thread, have not figured it out, so I always copy the info I need and the thread id into a word document and put it in a file for my trailer cause I can never find what I need when I search cause there are so many other answers.

Second, my brother said that when you are using a product, check out the manufacturers site as they will often have videos or other info on how to use their product. Just learned this week that there are gauges that will tell you what size drill bit to use for what size rivet. You can also google this info.

I have had some fights getting rivets out, especially when they are in the middle of something and the surrounding area flexes when I try and knock them out, but after reading K. Corbin's comments I think it is because I use a punch that slips into the rivet causing the binding.

I was also told not to practice riveting on wood as it will sink into the wood and not work properly. You need a hard surface.

[Mike_L]

Becky,
Are these solid steel rivets or aluminium pop rivets? There is a big difference in both the removal and replacement.

[BeckyK]

How would I tell steel or aluminum?
Thanks for all the information

[Jon in AZ]

I've never seen or heard of steel rivets used on molded fiberglass, at least not by any of the manufacturers. Scamp and Casita, the only remaining manufacturers still using riveted construction, use aluminum.

[Mike_L]

Becky,
I'm not familiar with your unit. Steel rivets are used in heavier applications, like vehicle chassis, because they are stronger. Aluminium rivets are not as strong but don't corrode. They are commonly used in aluminium boats. Usually rivets are "headed" on both ends. This means the ends are flattened to hold them in place. There are also "pop" rivets. A pop rivet is a small diameter aluminium tube about 1/8 inch in diameter although larger ones are available. It is flanged on one end. A rivet is loaded into a rivit gun, flanged end first. The other end is inserted through the holes in the two surfaces to be held together. The rivet gun is used to pull a small aluminium nail through the rivet, causing it to swell. When the two surfaces are firmly in place, the nail breaks and the union is complete. Old rivets are removed by drilling them out. Sometimes a pilot hole is drilled through the center of the old rivet followed by a larger hole the diameter of the rivet itself. Pop rivets can be drilled without the pilot hole. I've used all three kinds but I have not worked on a fiberglass trailer so I don't know which kind you have however I suspect they may be aluminium. Remember, flanged solid core aluminium rivets, the kind used in aluminium boats are much stronger than the hollow core pop rivets and may not be strong enough for your application. If the holes where the rivets are inserted are worn you may be able to go the next largest rivet diameter by re-drilling the holes accordingly. Goon luck!

[Borden]

Pop Rivets can be all steel regular or stainless
All aluminum including the mandrill (center nail)
Aluminum with steel mandrill (stainless or plain)
Closed end water prof or open end
Some have an available 1/32 inch thick neoprene washer available
5/32 wide closed end; use smaller size rivets washer and a leather hole punch to enlarge hole saves money
Main type on boler is 5/32 aluminum with steel mandrill and longer than you may guess

Closed end pop rivets require lever action heavy duty rivet gun they take more lever work to install do to design, installing them on our boler as a lot of the old ones leaking due to age mostly

hope this helps

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by Borden

Pop Rivets can be all steel regular or stainless
All aluminum including the mandrill (center nail)
Aluminum with steel mandrill (stainless or plain)
Closed end water prof or open end
Some have an available 1/32 inch thick neoprene washer available
5/32 wide closed end; use smaller size rivets washer and a leather hole punch to enlarge hole saves money
Main type on boler is 5/32 aluminum with steel mandrill and longer than you may guess

Closed end pop rivets require lever action heavy duty rivet gun they take more lever work to install do to design, installing them on our boler as a lot of the old ones leaking due to age mostly

hope this helps

I only have a limited experience with rivets on a Boler teaching one of the members, Lise, how to drill and drive out old rivets. What I found was they used way too long of rivets and they never compressed properly during installation. You always want to use a rivet that is long enough but not too long otherwise they won't pull tight.

Having seen those overly long rivets that did not properly compress against the shell I am not at all surprised that people are finding loose and leaking rivets in Bolers. They simply used the wrong length as in way too long.

I did write an article for this forum on how to quickly check the depth of the hole so that you will know what length of rivet you need to purchase. Here is the link to that article. http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...vet-75556.html

You will find that sometimes manufacturers get lazy and take the easy way out for stocking hardware and for installation as well. As in this case of of stocking only one length of rivet for use in all situations versus using the correct length rivet for each instance of use. Or it could simply be a case of a lazy installation mechanic not bothering to check what length they should have been using. I have seen this situation of overly long rivets on my Campster even though there are only a few places they are used on it. But it might have also been a previous owner who did it who did not understand that overly long rivets are not going to compress and grip properly. Of course too short of a rivet will only compress in the hole and not provide enough clamping pressure to pull against the inside surface.

[BeckyK]

All this information has been helpful and fascinating.
Thank you all!

[RogerDat]

Fiberglass RV's will generally be aluminum rivets. Steel take a lot more effort to install since steel is harder to bend than aluminum.

The rivets sizes vary with a majority being one or two diameters and lengths. Steel rivets can be more common in hardware and big box stores so if you buy them locally need to watch and make sure you get aluminum.

Here is a link to an animation of a blind rivet being installed
http://www.technologystudent.com/images2/popriv3.gif
Just wait a few and the image goes through the process as a mini movie.

Scrap aluminum flashing or scrap gutter material is good practice stock. Drill holes, insert rivet, clinch with rivet "gun".

You can even drill a hole just a touch bigger than the rivet diameter in wood and practice "setting" or "clinching" a rivet that way. You can also remove the heads but the unless the wood is thinner than the rivet is long so the hole you drill goes all the way through you won't be able to punch the rivet out.

Good quality rivet tool saves aggravation. But the punches you can get a set of cheap ones at harbor freight. Just one caution about punches (and drill bits) they are hard steel, they will snap rather than bend so keep the force straight on them. Do not pry.

One other tip I learned from a member here (Hi Carol!) where you need an "in between size". Just get one longer and cut it down with the shaft out. You can remove the center shaft of rivet by tapping it out, cut the rivet tube a little shorter with a hacksaw then put the shaft back in and use it.

Fiberglass is not all going to be exactly the same thickness so on a curve or in a thick spot the regular length you have been using may be a bit short so you have to use a longer one cut down. Scamp 13 closet, rivet on the curve of the roof is one I ran into. Or if a hole gets oversized and have to use a bigger rivet.

Reminds me; rivet head may want to spin when you drill, if that happens stop. The spinning rivet will enlarge the hole it goes into. Gently slip something like a thin bladed screwdriver under the rivet head and gently pry up to put tension on it while you drill, this prevents it from spinning. You may want to put something on the fiberglass next to the rivet head so you are not prying on the fiberglass. You are NOT prying the rivet out, just pulling it up enough that the base wedges in the hole so it stops spinning and lets the drill remove metal. Might still slip and spin a bit as you do this, if it does just get a new grip with the pry and drill some more.

It doesn't take much for a steel drill to cut through an aluminum rivet. But the cutting edge of the drill can sort of grab the rivet. If the center shaft falls out and the rivet tube and head is still in there, you can go a drill bit larger than the shaft and very gently use it to cut a hole through the head which will cut the top of the tube part from the head and the head will come off, possibly spun up on your drill bit.

YouTube pop rivets or blind rivets tutorial and you should be all set. Then search for remove the pop rivet or blind rivet tutorials :-) Really easy after you do 3 you will be an expert.

[LiseKen]

It is great to get a lesson in drilling them out, I am now doing it confidently thanks to practice and excellent advice from K. Corbin. You might also see that f you can find a video of someone drilling them out. What Karin said above is spot on my experience-slow and steady and watch for the head to pop apart by stopping and moving the drill a bit


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