rivets, caps, washers and acorn nuts - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2013, 01:07 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Well the reason I asked is that I found a nut on the floor. Found the rivet and screwed the acorn back on but it didn't tighten down really. It seems that threads formed by popping the rivet are going to be soft and less robust that a honkin flat washer under the expanded part.

When it is an overhead cabinet held on by a 4 of these things that seems pretty light weight. I was intending on hanging my 14 lb 32" tv from the cabinet over the bed but now I have my doubts.
__________________

__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 01:48 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
Well the reason I asked is that I found a nut on the floor. Found the rivet and screwed the acorn back on but it didn't tighten down really. It seems that threads formed by popping the rivet are going to be soft and less robust that a honkin flat washer under the expanded part.

When it is an overhead cabinet held on by a 4 of these things that seems pretty light weight. I was intending on hanging my 14 lb 32" tv from the cabinet over the bed but now I have my doubts.
First off the rivets are rivets they do not screw into the nuts so once they break off the rivet they can not be screwed back on.

The rivets will from time to time break off from acorn nuts due to the fatigue of the trailer flexing. I have over 6 years had a few of them go on my older trailer mostly after many miles of travel over rough roads. The reason people use rivets rather than stronger screws is for this reason - better the rivet snaps than the fiberglass crack.

The overhead bins are not designed to hold heavy items although I do have a 19" flat screen mounted on my rear overhead but I do not travel with the TV mounted on the overhead. Take it down and put it under the covers of the bed.
__________________

Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 02:49 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
... although I do have a 19" flat screen mounted on my rear overhead but I do not travel with the TV mounted on the overhead.
How did you mount that? I am not finding mounts that hang from above, rather they all seem to mount to the wall behind the tv. I am about to do something really ugly and crude.
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 02:54 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by beardrum View Post
The acorn nut part of all this is what seems insecure.
I'm sure it is, since nothing about the nut or rivet is designed to work this way, but it doesn't matter much since the nut has no structural purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
So the nut that fell off needs to have the rivet replaced? I screwed it back on but the rivet turns now, i.e. once I tighten the nut at some point it just starts spinning.
I wouldn't even momentarily consider replacing a rivet just because the nut fell off. Glue the nut on if you would like...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
So the acorn is really a "pretty"? It seems like they will come off more easily than a flat washer.
Yes, the acorn nut is just ornamental. A washer is very functional, as Steve explained... and it will not come off without destroying the rivet.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:04 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Brian,

somewhere in this discussion was a reference to using a washer to "spread the load" on the back side of the rivet. You seem to indicate that the acorn is truly decorative, so what replaces the washer in "spreading the load". It seems that you could have both, a washer and then on top of that the acorn.

However the acorn appears to actually prevent the rivet from spreading out as it normally would, and thus having even less surface area holding the back side in place.

Or perhaps I am not visualizing the process correctly.
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:09 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
The rivets will from time to time break off from acorn nuts due to the fatigue of the trailer flexing. I have over 6 years had a few of them go on my older trailer mostly after many miles of travel over rough roads.
Rivets sometimes break as Carol has explained, but it is unrelated to the nuts. If the nut falls off but the rivet is intact, that's an ornamental issue; if the rivet breaks, that's a structural issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
The reason people use rivets rather than stronger screws is for this reason - better the rivet snaps than the fiberglass crack.
I disagree. I believe that the rivets are used simply because they are cheap and fast (thus cheap to install), and perhaps because they don't loosen (much) over time.

I have heard this theory of using rivets as a deliberate weak link. Again, I disagree - I think it's just poor design and construction. Are there any parts of your car that fall apart on rough roads to protect the parts they're in from cracking? Even in a fiberglass car? This has been a contentious issue in the past, so that's as far as I'll take that subject.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:13 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
somewhere in this discussion was a reference to using a washer to "spread the load" on the back side of the rivet. You seem to indicate that the acorn is truly decorative, so what replaces the washer in "spreading the load"
Nothing - just whatever the interior part is of the sandwich. For instance, my Boler cabinets are held up by small steel angle brackets - the rivet goes through the fiberglass and the bracket and the tail of the rivet is pulled against the bracket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
It seems that you could have both, a washer and then on top of that the acorn.

However the acorn appears to actually prevent the rivet from spreading out as it normally would, and thus having even less surface area holding the back side in place.

Or perhaps I am not visualizing the process correctly.
I think you understand this well. If both a washer and an acorn nut cap are used, then I assume there must be a gap between them for the rivet body to swell into.


Since most - perhaps all - of my Boler's rivets are out of sight (such as in cabinets), I doubt I would bother with the acorn nuts if I were replacing any rivets.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:22 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L. View Post
To avoid the need for that dab of sealant (or even the cup and cover assembly), you can use closed-end rivets. They don't have a hole right through the middle of them.

Closed end rivets
Closed End Rivets????????????
"And a Rivet Runs Through It" (post #31)
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
In the Scamp, the rivets (acorns) are in plain sight. Instead of curving the lip of the cabinet up behind (inside) the cabinet, they curve it out. Then they put the rivet through that, the rat fur and on out to the outside of the Scamp.

Probably easier to assemble that way but not so pretty as if they were riveted on the inside of the cabinet.
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 03:42 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Nothing - just whatever the interior part is of the sandwich. For instance, my Boler cabinets are held up by small steel angle brackets - the rivet goes through the fiberglass and the bracket and the tail of the rivet is pulled against the bracket.
...
Since most - perhaps all - of my Boler's rivets are out of sight (such as in cabinets), I doubt I would bother with the acorn nuts if I were replacing any rivets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
In the Scamp, the rivets (acorns) are in plain sight. Instead of curving the lip of the cabinet up behind (inside) the cabinet, they curve it out. Then they put the rivet through that, the rat fur and on out to the outside of the Scamp.
Perhaps I should note that my B1700 - like most but not all examples of this model - has wood (sticks and thin plywood) interior cabinets, not fiberglass. There's no lip on the back of the cabinets at all: one leg of the angle bracket is screwed to the cabinet side wall or bottom framing, while the other leg is riveted against the fiberglass shell. In this design, it's just about as easy and much nicer looking to put them inside the cabinet, and there is no fiberglass moulding challenge as there would be with an inward-turned lip.

I do understand the desire for a nice finish on the ugly end of an exposed rivet. Nuts and bolts (instead of rivets) would automatically achieve that, if acorn nuts were used... but that's a controversial choice.

I wonder if a decorative cap that slides on the rivet after it is installed, held on by a bit of adhesive, might be an option? The challenge is that the tail of a pulled rivet is irregular in shape.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 04:10 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post

I wouldn't even momentarily consider replacing a rivet just because the nut fell off. Glue the nut on if you would like...
.
Hummmm the rivet expands inside the acorn nut and should the nut break off normally one can just push the rivet through the fiberglass as the nut was what was holding it in place..... or at least on my Scamp thats the case.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 04:19 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby54 View Post
How did you mount that? I am not finding mounts that hang from above, rather they all seem to mount to the wall behind the tv. I am about to do something really ugly and crude.
Here you go. The mount stays on the TV but its a simple click & slide off to take down. Purchased it online. The nice thing is you can hardly notice the TV mount section that is left when you take the TV down.
Attached Thumbnails
09-10-10 20_34_DSC0109.jpg   09-07-10 20_48_DSC0079.jpg  

Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 04:24 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Name: asdf
Trailer: asdf
Alabama
Posts: 346
Thanks!
__________________
jwcolby54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2013, 11:05 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Brian B-P's Avatar
 
Name: Brian
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Alberta
Posts: 5,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Hummmm the rivet expands inside the acorn nut and should the nut break off normally one can just push the rivet through the fiberglass as the nut was what was holding it in place..... or at least on my Scamp thats the case.
The rivet body expands in the nut but that doesn't pull the nut up against the part being held, so that had better not be what is holding anything in place.
In any case, if the rivet has actually snapped (rather than just the nut falling off) then of course the rivet needs to be replaced.
__________________

__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
scamp


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rivets, Acorn nuts, Rivnuts etc. Dan B Care and Feeding of Molded Fiberglass Trailers 45 11-22-2016 08:21 AM
Nuts n' bolts instead of rivets? dylanear Modifications, Alterations and Updates 20 05-31-2012 02:57 PM
acorn nuts sfoss Modifications, Alterations and Updates 4 03-03-2012 05:23 PM
Scamp Acorn Nuts Parker Buckley Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 8 10-14-2009 09:08 PM
Rivets and Acorn Nuts Steve L. Modifications, Alterations and Updates 6 11-16-2005 09:36 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.