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02-10-2014, 05:17 PM
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#1
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Member
Trailer: Trillium
Posts: 70
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snow load on roofs
I stopped in on a local trailer in Winnipeg (River Heights) area and reminded the owner to clear the snow load off his vintage boler,he {Mike} said that it was his wifes and that he had not thought of the snow load and thanked me.
Just trying to save a owner form some springtime grief, his trailer had full sunlight from the south and as the snow melts the load gets heavier.
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02-10-2014, 06:05 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
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AND, all that snow on top may very well exceed the rating of the axle. Nice of you to stop and remind the owner!
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
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02-10-2014, 06:14 PM
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#3
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Moderator
Trailer: 2009 19 ft Escape / 2009 Honda Pilot
Posts: 6,224
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My brother doing just that on my mom's Bigfoot.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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02-10-2014, 10:32 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1978 Trillium 13 ft
Posts: 180
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Here in mid-Michigan, I've done 3 times now what you show your brother doing - just about that amount each time! Should've gone to souther AZ this winter.
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02-11-2014, 05:40 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: Wendy Lee
Trailer: Scamp 13' Standard
New York
Posts: 1,071
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Here in Western NY, I've been on the ladder like Craig's brother oh about 2 times per week since January. My neighbors probably think I'm a kook...can't recall this much snow since I was a kid! I guess I wasn't sure if the roof prep for the A/C would be enough support, so it's better to be safe than sorry! Do owners of stick trailers and rigs worry about this sort of thing? I can't ever recall seeing anybody with a stickie doing this in dead winter.
Such dedicated souls we are, FG RV owners!
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02-11-2014, 08:42 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Escape 19 and Escape 15B
Alberta
Posts: 523
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__________________
Dave W - 2013 Escape 19', 2013 Escape 15B and 2011 Toyota FJ Cruiser
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." - Yogi Berra
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02-11-2014, 08:44 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Escape 19 and Escape 15B
Alberta
Posts: 523
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I bought one of these this year for clearing snow from the edge of the roofline on my house, as we have had problems with leaks due to ice dams in the past. The handle is an extension handle and can reach up to about 15-16 ft. It also worked great to clear the snow from my Escape's roof. If you have access to the four sides of your trailer, you would not even have to use a ladder.
__________________
Dave W - 2013 Escape 19', 2013 Escape 15B and 2011 Toyota FJ Cruiser
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." - Yogi Berra
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02-11-2014, 09:40 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Nate
Trailer: 1981 Casita 13. TV: 2011 Honda CR-V
Wisconsin
Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Broughton
, his trailer had full sunlight from the south and as the snow melts the load gets heavier.
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Huh? The density goes up, but the total load should stay the same or less, right? Or am I missing something?
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02-11-2014, 11:19 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Nate - The essential measurement that is required for calculating loads is the water equivalent . How much moisture the snow is holding will change the total load drastically. For example i work at ski races and I can tell you that a shovel full of snow in coastal Whistler BC weighs far more than the same shovel full of snow in the Rocky mountains .... reason is the Whistler snow normally contains far more moisture due to warmer temps. In the Rocky mountains it is normally colder resulting in far less water content to volume.
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02-11-2014, 11:28 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Escape 19 and Escape 15B
Alberta
Posts: 523
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I think that what Nate was pointing out is that once the snow is on the roof of the trailer, the total weight of the snow on the trailer roof does not increase just because the snow is becoming denser as it melts.
__________________
Dave W - 2013 Escape 19', 2013 Escape 15B and 2011 Toyota FJ Cruiser
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." - Yogi Berra
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02-11-2014, 12:39 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice-breaker
I think that what Nate was pointing out is that once the snow is on the roof of the trailer, the total weight of the snow on the trailer roof does not increase just because the snow is becoming denser as it melts.
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Snow usually does become much heavier as it melts. As it melts the moisture content can/will increase thus making it much heavier even though it may look like less volume. It the reason you will see people who live in snow country leave 3 feet of more snow on the roof of their homes or cottages for weeks without worrying about it but once it starts to warm up and melt you will see people up shovelling off the roof as fast as they can.
The water content of snow may range from 3% if very dry snow to 33% if wet, heavy snow, to nearly 100% for ice. An inch of water weighs 5.2 lbs. per square foot. As dry snow melts it becomes wet snow.
There is a good explanation of it located here.
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02-11-2014, 01:51 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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Hhmm,reminds of a childhood question, what weighs more a ton of gold or a ton of feathers??
__________________
Jim
Never in doubt, often wrong
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02-11-2014, 02:00 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
Hhmm,reminds of a childhood question, what weighs more a ton of gold or a ton of feathers??
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we as adults hopefully all know a ton is a ton whether it be gold, feathers or snow..... what some of us have difficulties with is the concept that 3" of dry fluffy snow may not weigh as much as 1" of denser melting snow.
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02-11-2014, 02:59 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1976, 1978, 1979, 1300 - 1977, and a 1973
Alberta
Posts: 6,926
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But where does the additional weight come from? Is the snow absorbing moisture from the air?
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02-11-2014, 03:38 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Wikipedia - Snow - (scroll down to Density) gives a far better explanation than I can give you for it.
Per Wiki new snow commonly has a density of around 8% of water. After settling on the ground it goes to approx. 30% water - by late spring it can be as much as 50% water - mostly caused by melting and refreezing.
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02-11-2014, 03:40 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston
But where does the additional weight come from? Is the snow absorbing moisture from the air?
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Only where the laws of physics don't apply.
The only way for snow to get "heavier" as it melts is for more snow or rain to fall on it, thus adding more water.
There may be an added danger to roofs as snow melts if it causes pooling somewhere on the roof, though.
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02-12-2014, 09:41 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Name: Nate
Trailer: 1981 Casita 13. TV: 2011 Honda CR-V
Wisconsin
Posts: 118
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Carol, the snow gets more dense, yes. So a cubic foot of snow will weigh more than it did. But if you have a foot of snow fall on a roof, weigh it, and then weigh it 3 weeks later when it's melted/refrozen to 2-3 inches, it will not WEIGH more. There is no increase in MASS, just in density.
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02-12-2014, 09:44 AM
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#18
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Moderator
Trailer: 2009 19 ft Escape / 2009 Honda Pilot
Posts: 6,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate R
Carol, the snow gets more dense, yes. So a cubic foot of snow will weigh more than it did. But if you have a foot of snow fall on a roof, weigh it, and then weigh it 3 weeks later when it's melted/refrozen to 2-3 inches, it will not WEIGH more. There is no increase in MASS, just in density.
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Did you factor in the coefficient of vapour loss due to the applied solar energy upon the snow mass?
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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02-12-2014, 10:49 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate R
Carol, the snow gets more dense, yes. So a cubic foot of snow will weigh more than it did. But if you have a foot of snow fall on a roof, weigh it, and then weigh it 3 weeks later when it's melted/refrozen to 2-3 inches, it will not WEIGH more. There is no increase in MASS, just in density.
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Your correct when the snow has melted down 9" as you suggest above but my comment was in response to your general comment below that although snow does in crease in density its "total load" doesn't increase, which isn't correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate R
Huh? The density goes up, but the total load should stay the same or less, right? Or am I missing something?
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Bottom line one can not look at their trailer and say I know its good for at least 1' of snow. no 1' of snow is created equal or weighs the same. To many variables.
In areas of frequent snow its not common to go 3 weeks without any new snow falling on another layer of old higher density snow - which can result in that 1' of snow on the roof weighing far more than the first seasonal 1' of snow fall. Also as I mentioned depending on the water content of that original 1' of snow there can be a great weight difference to what a cubic foot of it weighs to start with.
Bottom line is its good practice to remove snow from the roofs of fiberglass trailers and boats as they are just not built to withstand the roof loads created by snow
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02-12-2014, 12:18 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Name: Nate
Trailer: 1981 Casita 13. TV: 2011 Honda CR-V
Wisconsin
Posts: 118
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Carol, no doubt that the foot of snow on a camper at the end of a season could weigh more than the foot of snow at the beginning of the season due to the bottom several inches having been partially melted and then new snow fallen on top of. BUT, my original response was in reference to Craig's statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Broughton
and as the snow melts the load gets heavier.
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And this statement is NOT correct.
And yes, you're right, a foot of snow is NOT a foot of snow. I have no issue there. Just the way that Craig's statement is written looks to me as to say that snow GAINS mass as it melts.
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