Source for small double glazed windows ?

[Westcliffe01]

My trailer is going to a high altitude location where the temperature drops to near freezing every night in June/July. I am looking to reduce the glazing surface area and convert everything to double glazed at the same time.

I have a 19' scamp and will be on my own and I figure I do not need 3 big windows and a vent in the sleeping area alone. I figure 1 window in the sleeping area is more than enough considering I have the vent.

In the rest of the trailer, I mainly just want to reduce heat loss and avoid condensation so I figure double glazed is the way to go. I am going to be outside most of the day, so I will rather try to conserve energy than go for panoramic views.

I am planning on installing at least 1/2" of rigid foam on the inside of the shell so my hull will become a double wall unit. The foam will be bonded to the inside of the shell with epoxy and finally 2 layers of fiberglass cloth laid up on top of that to provide a workable surface. Then I was planning on doing a roll on bedliner type finish in a light color.

To resize the oversize window openings my intention is to laminate a sheet of filon to the outside and then bond foam to the inside followed with the same 2 layers of cloth as the rest of the interior. Once I locate and purchase the new windows, I can cut new openings and install them. In the overhead sleeping area most of the surface once occupied by the windows would be closed in.

For the floor, the first thing I will try is the foam tiles that others are using.

I will be installing a diesel fueled heater like this

Tent Heaters

The current plan is to put it at the very back end of the trailer and re-configure the table somewhat so that it has a clearance hole for the stove pipe. These stoves require no electricity at all and are built for heating tents in the arctic. Fuel consumption is very modest and diesel fuel is by far the most readily available and transportable given that propane deliveries are only possible for a few months of the year and every other appliance/machine I have uses the same fuel.

I have done quite a bit if searching and have not found anyone selling double glazed windows online. Is it really a custom order only situation ? That just promises to be expensive regardless of size ?

[accrete]

Have you checked out HEHR windows? (website link) ?
My wife and i live full time in a 38ft mobile suite that has various sized HERR Jalousie Double Pane windows. Basically, if you can give them dimensions they will build it. Sometime down the road we might even swap out the single pane HEHR windows in the Parkliner with double pane : )

Also, have you thought of looking at the available "Porthole" style marine windows? (one example - link). Our Parkliner has two in the design, though ours happen to be single pane, i've seen them in double. Here is a side image of the one on our rig. We love it! (it has a built in screen and works great in the rain).



=====Oh, on the heater...
I like your thinking! Nice to have something other than propane inside there.
On a similar note, have you seen the "Kimberly Stove" (heater, water-heater coil accessory available, & stove-top) ? (web link) It is a wood or coal firing stove specifically for RV's. Several YT videos.



Cheers,
Thom

[Donna D.]

One Burro owner http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ows-57991.html bought "to-measure" dual pane windows from Motion Windows in Vancouver, WA.

Frankly, replacement windows (or axles or 3-way big refrigerators, etc.) are expensive and you can't spend the same nickle twice. I'm cheap. I'd rather spend the money on fuel to go somewhere I've never been or better site fees. YMMV

[accrete]

on spending $$...
Thom's Tangent
I have no idea if we will put a Kimberly in our PL, though the thought does intrigue us because the places we frequent promote the idea of cleaning up the forest by picking up downed wood. We've fueled the majority of our camps with downed/reclaimed wood all with the park ranger's blessings.

And the floor plan of the PL lends itself to the kimberly at the location of the side dinette right across from the galley.

[Westcliffe01]

Donna if you spend time in a cold climate, the problems caused by condensation can really be considerable over a period of time. I have quite a bit of experience with condensation (and frost) on the inside of single pane windows so I know it is not going to be working for my application. The bottom of the window and the surface below it also ends up permanently soaked with condensation.

Last year I replaced the single pane windows in my hunting blind with double glazed and I went from fogged up or frosted up windows to a clear view (and less heat loss) just like that. I spend a fairly considerable amount of time on weekends through the whole winter (5+ months) sitting in that blind looking for coyotes that attack sheep and shooting them when they show up. Basically about 40 days per winter (more if you count the time in deer season).

Unfortunately, none of my "RV time" is going to be vacation or leisure time, I will be building a home and installing several miles of barb wire fence to be legal to lease the land for cattle grazing. Of course there are worse things to do with ones time...

[Westcliffe01]

Wow ! $3000+ for that bitty stove ???? The diesel fired heater is <$600.

I have heated our home in SE Michigan for the last 7 winters using corn and wood and the problem with a small stove like that is that the fire will burn out in just a couple of hours. So it is not a practical heat source unless you have terrible insomnia... I currently have a Pacific Energy T5 that has a firebox that holds just under 2 cubic ft of wood in a load and that does in fact hold a fire for about 9-10 hours.

For a larger space a wood stove is a practical solution, but not a small enclosed space like a trailer. Unless you come up with a mechanized way to keep feeding it wood chips all day and night and get rid of the ash... The oil stoves are popular on boats whereas the solid fuel stoves are just for occasional use.

Its a bit odd that I can't find mention of double glazed windows on the Hehr website, but I am sure I did find that info in the past. I really was thinking of porthole style windows, but I didn't think to look at marine sources.

[Westcliffe01]

This "Herring" marine stove is a steal at $2300 compared to the previous stainless stove


Then there is the "Halibut" cook stove

also about $1000 less than the shiny model... Might be a bit more heat that one can bear though.

The "little Cod" at $1300 must be an absolute steal...



Excellent company that makes these Traditional Cast Iron Marine Stoves by Navigator Stove Works,Inc. Navigator Stove Works

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

Donna if you spend time in a cold climate, the problems caused by condensation can really be considerable over a period of time.

Keith, I thoroughly understand, truly. Your needs are so totally different than the typical weekend campers looking to replace these items. A few drippy windows during shoulder season is a PITA, but much more for someone who's spending more than a few loooong weekends inside an all molded towable.

[accrete]

I hear you on the cost and energy needed to keep a stove like the kimberly going...not to practical if the temp really drops and you can't go without heat at night. Here in the PNW our nights rarely drop below freezing and we go without any heat at night year round. Inside temp in our 5th wheel has never been below 40 and we sleep soundly.

On the Little Cod stove, we saw that one a couple years back...with the glass door option

[cpaharley2008]

Hehr is the manufacturer of double pane windows in the Escape, you may also want to spray foam the entire exterior underneath, another option on the Escape that keeps the cold out, plus you will need a heated water supply hose.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

I will be installing a diesel fueled heater like this

Tent Heaters

Keith, I like the idea of a natural-convection heater, but are you concerned by the need for six or more feet of exhaust stack above the top of the heater?

[Eddie Longest]

Keith
For winter camping in my 5er I have a roll of Reflectix which I unroll and it covers the walls and windows in the bunk area. It stands on end and tucks down between the wall and mattress and extends to the ceiling. I stick the curtain rod holders through the Reflectix then reinstall the curtain rods to hold up the Reflectix. I saw a 5er the other week where the owner had filled the frame grid under the upper deck with rigid 3/4 foil covered foam. The foam was held in place by a screw with a big round washer and he calked around the edges to hold the foam in place. On the floor you can install 1/2" foam interlocking 2' squares. It's available from Harbor Freight or BJ's.
During the summer you can roll up the Reflectix and remove it and the foam flooring for summer camping. I also put some Reflectix or foam between the gravel shield and front window.
Eddie

[trainjunkie]

To add another window vendor to the mix, Sun-View Industries is the OE supplier for Bigfoot and they make thermal-pane windows.

RV Windows by Sun-View Industries

[Westcliffe01]

Brian, usually the rule is at least 2 foot above anything in a 10foot radius. For going down the road, I will cap the vent right above the roof line, then install another section with the rain cap once parked. Ceiling height is already 6 feet so the addition of 1 or 2 more sections of pipe should have me there. At high altitude draft may be weaker and may need more vent, will have to see. On the other hand, the temperature differential should be high compared to the cold mountain air, so it may not be an issue.

I might put a stainless steel shield around the vent that is air gap spaced from the roof just as spark protection, but that really shouldn't be a problem as this stove uses a vaporizing burn chamber and so is very clean.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Keith, I like the idea of a natural-convection heater, but are you concerned by the need for six or more feet of exhaust stack above the top of the heater?

[Westcliffe01]

Eddie, sorry, maybe I was not clear. The conditions I mentioned (dropping to 30's at night) are mid summer. In winter it might be 20-30 below at night and storm winds well over 100mph... No, I will not be camping in my scamp in those conditions... In summer it obviously warms up during the day and is generally sunny, but a trailer has no capacity to store heat to carry you through the night. I am building an earth bermed passive solar masonry home with a steel roof and spray foam insulation to handle those conditions.

Originally Posted by Eddie Longest

Keith
During the summer you can roll up the Reflectix and remove it and the foam flooring for summer camping. I also put some Reflectix or foam between the gravel shield and front window.
Eddie

[accrete]

Hi Keith, have you done any research over at ExpeditionPortal.com forums on use of diesel heaters at altitude? There might be some nice pointers. I know several are using the airtronic cab heaters over there in their Sportsmobile vans and such (typically they use the hydronic that gives you hot water and air).

Cheers,
Thom

[Westcliffe01]

The Webasto / Espar type auxiliary heaters work very well with micro processor control, but they draw about 130w when lighting and about 90w when running, so it is not an insignificant electrical load. They are also noisier in operation. It is a great solution to prevent things from freezing if you set the thermostat low, since it is basically fully automatic in operation.

I can see that when used in any vehicle that is equipped with an engine that the electrical load would probably not be an issue (particularly if the vehicle is driven/sailed daily).

I am attracted to the total independence of electrical power of the natural draft type stove, even if that means that operation is not in any way automated.

[accrete]

Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

...I am attracted to the total independence of electrical power of the natural draft type stove, even if that means that operation is not in any way automated.

: ) I like the tent stove in your first post, just ramblin' as i passed through and i've gleaned good info from the Expo site through the years on various builds and wanted to pass the site on.

Cheers,
Thom

[Westcliffe01]

I have learned that there are several excellent stove/heater models. The one I listed is the most utilitarian and cheapest, but I believe that the fuel control and vaporizing burn pot are actually European made and common to lots of different manufacturers stoves.



Here is a Napoleon OS10 stove


Here is a Godin (what were they thinking with the green ????)


Finally a Franco Belge


With a close up of the burn pot