Thoughts on Leaving Propane On for Furnace at Night?

[neparker]

Originally Posted by M Scott

now, if I could just back up straight!

I feel your pain! I do so much better on challenging doglegs with hazards.

Last year after a few tries in a darn open field, a neighbor offered to back my trailer for me. (I declined). If my rellie hadn't been laughing so hard, there'd be videos!

-- Anne

[greenghost45]

If you are really bothered by this, you could install a marine type solenoid shut off.

Trident Marine LPG Propane Gas Control System

This will shut off the propane remotely (near the tank, outside) by a 12 volt solenoid. It is powered when open so is not as useful for RVs with fridges and furnaces on propane. We had something like this on our sailboat for the propane range. With this system, your propane is off, except when the solenoid is energized. These units can also come with a sniffer that will shut off automatically, when gas is detected. One important thing to remember, natural gas is lighter than air and will usually dissipate into the atmosphere. Propane is heavier than air and can "puddle" in nooks and crannies and is, therefore, a more hazardous fuel.

[Johnny M]

As a safety conscious husband, father and retired firefighter of 25+ years here is something to think about for all of you who travel with the propane on. It is estimated that there are over 16 million auto accidents each year. If you are ever in a serious collision while pulling your trailer with the propane on and a line is severed in the collision it could be catastrophic particularly if any occupants in the vehicle become entrapped. Propane is heavier than air meaning it will stay low to the ground, i.e. under a hot running vehicle and it only takes a spark to end tragically. Just something to consider as it only takes seconds to turn that valve on when you get to the campground and a few second more to turn off when you hit the road...stay safe out there & happy camping.

[Glenn Baglo]

My understanding is that the propane bottles sold today have a safety valve in them. Should a hose be severed, the valve detects a rush of propane and shuts down the flow.
That, and that the propane bottles are not in a contained area, mitigates the potential danger.
That said, I can't think of a worse way to die.

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

My understanding is that the propane bottles sold today have a safety valve in them. Should a hose be severed, the valve detects a rush of propane and shuts down the flow.
That, and that the propane bottles are not in a contained area, mitigates the potential danger.
That said, I can't think of a worse way to die.

Not necessarily so. In a collision serious enough to sever a propane hose, any propane safety device whether a safety valve or other hardware could be compromised as well and it could fail. I choose not to take that gamble with my family, you may choose different.

As first responders/firefighters the first thing checked for on a collision scene was leaking fuel of any kind (propane, gasoline, diesel, natural gas) regardless of the tank or source. We can't help any victims if we become one as well.

[Glenn Baglo]

I suspect the most dangerous source of fuel in the event of an accident is the gas tank in the vehicle. The trailer has likely separated and is about a hundred feet away.
I spent 45 years as a news photographer, and I learned to look up to make sure a live power line wasn't about to drop on me. Learned to look for an escape route. Learned that a life can end in an instant, so I have three smoke alarms and a CO alarm, and four fire extinguishers in my 800 square foot house.
For all that, I will run with propane on so my fridge stays cold.
I would advise that pedestrians stop reading text messages on their phone and listening to music with ear-buds while crossing the street. That body under the bus stayed with me for weeks after covering that accident.

[greenghost45]

There are thousands of propane powered cars and trucks out there, especially in Alberta and Saskatchewan; I used to own one. Insofar as I know, the only stipulation is that they are not allowed in underground parkades, for obvious reasons. Interestingly, while BC Ferries insists that the propane is shut off in trailers and RVs, they do not have the same requirement for propane powered vehicles, some of which are dual fuel, some of which are propane only. I have owned or driven both types and the dual fuel is way more convenient. I am also a firefighter (albeit volunteer) and I am of the opinion that gasoline is the way bigger hazard, considering the fragile tanks it is stored in. But we tend to not think of it because we are all used to handling it so much. If the propane line is damaged, unless it was before the regulator, I doubt that a leak could ever pool enough propane to pose a hazard. Just my opinion, YMMV.

[Bob Miller]

After having just spent a month in the Washington fire areas, I have the greatest respect for our first responders. However, I just don't think that the danger cited in Post #43 is supported by statistics.


Yes, there is an increased risk when leaving the propane ON while under way, but it is statistically so slight that it doesn't emerge from the fog of the other risks that we routinely take while driving.


In umpteen years, and maybe 100,000 miles of RV'ing, I know of exactly two instances where LP gas ignited as the result of an accident and, in both case, the accidents were caused by negligent owners having what I call "Self Inflicted" accidents.


In one case, a 12 year old tire on a motorhome blew apart and damaged an LP line, leading to a fire, in the other example, an axle end failed, sending dual tires into the coachwork and severing an LP line, again leading to a fire. In the latter case the owner of the Toyota based motorhome had intentionally ignored a recall concerning the very same issue with axle failures.


While I have personally seen many accidents involving wrecked, and even overturned trailers and motorhomes, and have read and seen pics of dozens more, I have yet to see one that caught fire. And with the addition of the safety flow valve, the chances of this happening are further reduced.


Now, Police see lots of auto accidents and bad guys, Doctors see lots of sick and injured people, and Fire Fighters see lots of fires and accidents, which could lead one to be jaded, but I don't see any real reports or statistics that support the concern.


I am more concerned about the guy on a cellphone, the kids without safety restraints, and the teen drivers that account for a disproportionate number of accidents, than the very remote chance that wanting to keep my refrigerator running while towing will expose me to even a modicum of risk.


But to all first responders, Thank You for all of your service and the risks you take to protect us and our families.

[boats19]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Can you provide a link. I can't find any creditable source that suggests not turning the valve all the way ON.

I've always been told 1/4 turn only when turning on the valve. Since reading this thread I did a quick Google search looking for an answer to the question of propane valve safety. I found nothing about turning the valve on. It seems if it was a safety issue nearly all sites would mention it boldly. I understand the "full open seat" in valves, and the 1/4 turn for quick close idea, but are both just opinions? Is it possible that the new valves are different in some way than the old ones? I honestly don't know.

[C&G in FL]

I believe the idea of not fully opening the propane on resulted from some welder's who only open the valves on acetylene tanks for safety reasons. The practice was never intended to be applied to propane and has become one of those myths that just won't die, like don't store a battery on a concrete surface. At one time, when battery cases were rubber, that was true, but with today's plastic cased batteries, it is a carry-over which no longer applies. The OPD valves on propane tanks should be opened slowly, but fully in order to properly flow the propane. And think about this: Would being able to close the valve slightly faster make a difference if a problem were to occur and you were not right next to the tank with your hand on the valve at the ready?


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[boats19]

Originally Posted by CPW

And think about this: Would being able to close the valve slightly faster make a difference if a problem were to occur and you were not right next to the tank with your hand on the valve at the ready?


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With the arthritis in my hands I would say, yes!

As to the myth idea that's kind of what I was wondering. I still haven't found anything on Google about proper LP valve use...

[Briantb]

Even though you have your furnace on, you no doubt have the window at your head open a bit to let in fresh air to combat condensation... Right

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[floyd]

BUT...but... what about a propane powered Tow vehicle?

[Bob Miller]

I am communicating with a major LP tank manufacturer and, apparently, it's not a simple question about how much the valve should be opened.
I expect to hear from their R&D department today.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I am communicating with a major LP tank manufacturer and, apparently, it's not a simple question about how much the valve should be opened.
I expect to hear from their R&D department today.

Part of the problem may be with tank size. The large, multi hundred gallon tanks used for homes often have a double seating valve, however I have not seen any specification for one on the smaller portable tanks.

Unless the valve is double seating, there is no advantage to opening it all the way. As to welding, with an gas welding system, the acetylene tank is relatively low pressure, does not use a double seating valve, and should be opened less than a turn. The oxygen tank starts out at around 3000psi, and because of the high pressure, uses a double seating valve to prevent oxygen leakage around the valve stem. That is the reason for fully opening it.

Again, I doubt a double seating valve is used on a 20 or 30 pound propane tank, so fully opening it is not going to prevent leakage around the stem.

I'm interested in hearing what the tank R&D people say, however be sure they are talking about small portable tanks.

[boats19]

So Carl, the valve myth may be about the seal...
Bob, have you heard back from the LP tank manufacturer?

[Bob Miller]

I just sent a 2nd request.
They were answering to my first posts within hours. I guess that R&D isn't as quick.

[Bob Miller]

I just got a call from Eric Becker at Manchester Tanks in Elkhart, IN.
As it turns out, asking about RV LP tank valves is a complicated question. Here's a summary of what we discussed.


1. Some RV tanks will have a back seating valve, but you have to contact the valve manufacturer to find that out, most don't


2. All valves should be opened all the way or closed all the way, BUT:
Valves should only be opened and closed "Finger Tight".
Valves that leak at any point when partially or fully open should be serviced or replaced. Most RV tanks valves are not intended to use back seating to seal.
Partially open valve (i.e. 1/4 - 1/2 turn) can develop icing in the valve and can shut down.
Over tightening either way can damage the valve mechanism, seats and/or seals.
First responders expect valves to be fully open when responding and will turn them off if possible.


Summary:
Open valves all the way, but do so "Gently"
If there are any stem leaks at any point after opening, the valve should be serviced or replaced.

[Jim Bennett]

Good to hear that reply from Manchester. Kinda what I suspected, but now I can be confident in knowing.

[Briantb]

Thanks Bob

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