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02-15-2017, 11:12 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo
Who is arguing?
The only reason I am presenting my "facts" is that there are people who will read this thread and accept your position as truth. I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just giving them more to consider.
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Now don't go soft on us! I liked it better when the argument was that the internet was to blame. Or everyone who disagreed was relaying false information. You know, real factual, hard hitting arguments like that.
Seriously though, you make some perfectly good arguments. And you represent the traditional view as though it's absolute. Good job. And your personal experience has been positive.
Businesses don't just run on what's better. Cheaper is also a powerful incentive. I can buy ST tires all mounted on new wheels for under $90. LTs cost closer to $150. or $200. each without the wheel. Plus the idea of running something other than the traditional type scares some people who may not understand the value in it. So, there is more to it than manufacturing tradition. It's price, tradition, hype, and selling to folks like that would never consider something different. I tend to be curious and analytical while placing price below safety or good design.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
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02-15-2017, 11:27 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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Nailed it.
I have no plans to soak my trailer in Coca Cola to remove silicon caulk, one of my favourite bits of FGRV advice.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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02-16-2017, 05:29 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Trailer: Casita Spirit Deluxe 2003 16 ft
Posts: 1,899
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I know of no requirement to derate LT tires for trailer use.
There is a requirement to derate by 10% Pmetric/passenger tires used on trucks and trailers.
F/CMVSS 110:
Quote:
Tire Load Limits for Passenger Cars (S4.2.1)
- The vehicle maximum load on the tire shall not be greater than the applicable maximum load rating as marked on the sidewall of the tire.
- The vehicle normal load on the tire shall not be greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
Tire Load Limits for Multipurpose Passenger Vehicles, Trucks, Busses, and Trailers (S4.2.2)
- The sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label.
- When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.
- For MPV, truck, or bus vehicles equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the de-rated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.
End Quote
Vehicle Normal Load (VNL) is your average running around trailer weight. For a tire on a trailer, it is the sum of the curb weight and accessories.
__________________
Without adult supervision...
Quando omni flunkus, moritati.
Also,
I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess.
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02-16-2017, 07:57 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Posts: 5,185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo
It's amazing that these tire threads have so much traction, but never seem to get to a destination, or anywhere really.
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There you go.
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02-16-2017, 08:16 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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I have P metric tires on my 1/2 ton truck and ST tires on my trailer.
If I am to believe the self proclaimed tire experts on the internet , I am a ticking time bomb and a danger to the civilized world .
I should go to the closest tire shop and have this issue rectified immediately but how do I get there with endangering others ?
Something to ponder as I wait for Spring
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02-16-2017, 11:25 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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I erred on the Derate for LT Tires.
I found this on RV safety:
If you look at the rated load capacity of a true LT type tire vs a P type at the same inflation you will see that the LT is rated at about 25% lower load capacity. This is because vehicles that are expected to be used as trucks ie a major part of their life fully loaded, the reality of the physics involved dictates that if you want to get 40 to 60,000 mile life you must reduce the load. This lower capacity is one reason there is no De-Rating for LT tires when placed on trailers.
The main difference is the continuous load on RV Trailers and the twisting of the sidewalls when on multi axle trailers.
The cheapness of the ST tires is another point especially the Chinese MayPops.
Personally this is one reason that I went to 14" tires when I had to replace 4 lug wheels along with the new axle.
Personally I have quite a bit of overkill with the 14" tires and the 205 size.
Smoother ride and greater capacity
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02-16-2017, 07:12 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Name: Sid
Trailer: Parkliner 2014
Wisconsin
Posts: 529
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Warning: slight derail ahead!
Boy am I glad these never caught on! We would be arguing lumens vs LT
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02-16-2017, 07:42 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Name: BARNEY
Trailer: CASITA
Georgia
Posts: 125
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How's about cooper at3 285x75 17" on gt ford bullitt wheels for cassie 16 sd?
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04-11-2017, 12:03 AM
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#29
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Junior Member
Name: Allan
Trailer: Escape 19 or 21 pending
British Columbia
Posts: 3
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I wonder what the insurance company insuring a trailer with LT tires would say if the LT sidewall blew out, the single axle trlr flips over and kills a family in another car because the tires were LT and not ST rated?? Has anyone checked with their insurance company as to the legality of running non trlr rated tires?
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04-11-2017, 06:54 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Name: Shelby
Trailer: Casita SD
Tennessee
Posts: 1,090
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Welcome Allan! What does your insurance company have to say about this?
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04-11-2017, 08:02 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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I was told by my second cousin on my Dad's side , bestfriend's , ex brother in law , who works for or maybe it's lives down the street from or at least has driven by a tire shop , that you can use LT tires on a trailer if you derate the tires by 20 % , then go up by two tire ratings and fill the tires with helium ( Lower tire weight for better MPG )
According to the formula my Casita requires a load rated H tire with a 16 ply rating run at 200 psi
Good enough , I know nothing about tires but it seems right to me plus I read it on the internet .
I will let you know how it works.
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04-11-2017, 08:08 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,925
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Too bad tire treads don't last as long as tire threads...
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04-11-2017, 08:50 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
I was told by my second cousin on my Dad's side , bestfriend's , ex brother in law , who works for or maybe it's lives down the street from or at least has driven by a tire shop , that you can use LT tires on a trailer if you derate the tires by 20 % , then go up by two tire ratings and fill the tires with helium ( Lower tire weight for better MPG )
According to the formula my Casita requires a load rated H tire with a 16 ply rating run at 200 psi
Good enough , I know nothing about tires but it seems right to me plus I read it on the internet .
I will let you know how it works.
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FINALLY!! A comprehensive and sane response to a question that was keeping us all up at night!
A definitive response with well documented references which should put the issue to rest.
As a direct decendant of the guy who invented the wheel, I wholeheartedly concur!
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04-12-2017, 11:27 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: Scamp 13
California
Posts: 1,890
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04-13-2017, 03:19 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almacd1814
I wonder what the insurance company insuring a trailer with LT tires would say if the LT sidewall blew out, the single axle trlr flips over and kills a family in another car because the tires were LT and not ST rated?? Has anyone checked with their insurance company as to the legality of running non trlr rated tires?
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I wonder what you would say if you found out that Oliver trailers come from the factory with LT tires? If the scenario you describe happened, the insurance company would probably look elsewhere for the real cause of the mishap.
My personal experience with LTs are that they are a superior design when compared to STs and I refuse to put inferior tires on my trailer.
It's a controversial subject, but imagining a worst case scenario, doesn't provide influence to do something unsafe. And saying that just because something was designed for a specific application, there can never be anything better, is not logical. It's not a matter of "getting away with it". It's a matter of using the best equipment available. But you should be sure to use whatever you think is best, and I promise I won't try to scare you with a ridiculous example, or even real life personal failures with ST tires.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
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04-13-2017, 03:23 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: Roamer 1
Smith Valley, Nevada
Posts: 2,880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ
Too bad tire treads don't last as long as tire threads...
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That's for sure!
The treads wear on the highway and the threads wear on the computer.
__________________
I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt.
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04-13-2017, 08:53 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Trailer: Oliver
Posts: 711
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I'm curious. Please consider that there have been "millions" of posts contained in indeterminably long threads debating the LT vs ST choice.
Let's try to put them into perspective. Tell me when the last time you had a blow out on any vehicle you drive: car, truck, minivan, SUV, I don't care what. In the last year? In the last 50 years? I know I haven't. Every one of these vehicles is rolling on passenger or truck tires.
Now think back on the number of people that have complained in these very forums about their Marathon maypops or their Maxxis whatevers having blown out while going down the interstate. Sometimes, one right after the other.
Then remember the exhausting discussions about your trailer tires "timing out" rather than "wearing out." Would you put up with your vehicle tires doing the same thing?
So why would anybody put up with tires on their trailer that are going to go bad just being in their natural environment or going to blow out just doing their job?
I'm don't really care what tires you plan to run on your trailer. As has been stated (over and over, Ad nauseam) do what you feel is best. I'm going to continue to run Light Truck Commercial Tires as I have for hundreds of thousands of miles without a problem, ever... Because I know this is what is best for me.
__________________
Steve and Tali - Dogs: Rocky and our beloved Reacher, Storm, Maggie and Lucy (waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)
2008 Outlaw Oliver Legacy Elite & 2014 Outlaw Oliver Legacy Elite II
2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD Diesel 4x4
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04-13-2017, 10:52 PM
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#38
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Member
Name: Jan
Trailer: '02 Bigfoot 17'
Washington
Posts: 71
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I've also read lots of threads on treads - LT vs ST. I gotta' say, Mr. Outlaw's post made me pause and reassess my own opinion. Time for me to pay a little more attention to LT tires and see what I can learn.
I need 2 tires so this is current and relevant to me. Any Bigfoot owners using LT tires? If so, what kind and size?
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04-14-2017, 12:41 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Name: Dave
Trailer: Casita SD17 2006 "Missing Link"
California
Posts: 3,738
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Steve, your post, #37 is perfect. I asked the same question a while back of who has "really" had a blow out from something other than road punctures...........not one response. All that proves to me is either ST or LTs are fine and the only thing to really consider is the load rating you want to go with.
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04-14-2017, 03:53 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Name: BARNEY
Trailer: CASITA
Georgia
Posts: 125
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Tread depth is a factor. Me thinks [not often] lt's are deeper?
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