Trillium trailer 12V wiring

[Rick G]

Originally Posted by Gumpit

O.K. I have the trailer back from getting a new axle. I am going away next week and it is going to be cold. I would prefer to use a ceramic heater instead of the propane furnace. I still have the problem with the circuit breaker blowing after a few minutes of running only the ceramic heater and nothing else. It has a Progressive Dynamics Converter. The outside power cord goes into the converter and it acts like a circuit breaker for all the 115vac appliances as well as the 12v. My question is. Can I bump up the 15amp breaker to a 20 amp( and I wouldn't go higher) and see if that helps from tripping the circuit or do I run a seperate power feed on an ouside cord and have a dedicated outlet only for the ceramic heater?

it is the pd6921w2
http://www.progressivedyn.com/servic...ued/pd69xx.pdf

Hi,
How many watts is your ceramic heater? A 15 amp 110 volt circuit can handle up to about 1700 watts, absolute max, no surges. Your electric heater, like most, probably draws a lot of current continuously, which could stress the circuit breaker. It is possible, as was suggested, that your circuit breaker is old and weak. You can get a new one at any electronics supply store for about $5, and install it yourself if you know electricity and replace the wiring exactly. They often are installed with push-on connectors.

I have had a similar converter to yours, and the 110 V outlet on the front panel should not connect to the converter for 12V at all, if it is like most. Instead, it connects directly to the incoming AC supply. The circuit breaker for the front panel outlet is only for that outlet (and for any downstream 110V outlets in the trailer), not for the converter portion. If your downstream outlets (if any) are connected to the same breaker, then you have to look at the total current from all the things plugged into all the 110V outlets. Are you running the fridge on 110V at the same time (as an example)?

The 110V at the front panel outlet has no relation to the 12V that the converter creates for interior lights, etc. Using a lot of power on the front panel outlet will not affect your 12V at all, unless you use up all the power available. In that case, your main incoming supply breaker at the house would blow, not the breaker on the front of the converter panel. So, assuming that your incoming AC can handle the current, the circuit breaker on the converter front panel should be able to too. If your main AC input is OK but the circuit breaker on the front of the converter panel keeps blowing, then replacing it with a new one is a reasonable first step to take. (However, if you have 30 Amp main input current, then it would not blow even if a full 15 Amps was going to the front panel outlet)

However, the circuit breaker may be blowing as intended if your heater is a 1500 watt unit that operates near the limit much of the time, which means you are using too much current and have only one viable option - reduce the current consumption.

To solve your problem in our trailer, we found a 110V electric heater that had two settings, one for 1500 watts and one for 750 watts. Obviously, the 750 watt setting uses half the current, which keeps us well within safety ratings even if it runs continuously. The difference in heat is not very noticeable. It has been a great addition. We found ours at XS Cargo for about $20.

As a qualified electronics tech, I would advise you NOT to increase the circuit breaker rating to 20 Amps UNLESS you also increase the size of every wire and connection to handle the increased current. A standard 14 gauge house wire will handle 1700 watts, but increasing it by 25% could cause a fire in any connection that cannot handle the increased current, or in the downstream components such as outlet plugs. You should only make that change if every component and wire in the entire circuit is changed for 20 amp service. This is often done with kitchen dishwashers, so the parts are available at building supply stores.

Hope that helps,
Rick G.

[Gumpit]

I dropped the trailer off last night to have the people who installed the axle,adjust the brakes. I will have it back tonight. .And I am going to use it for the next 2 nights up in NH. I will double check the watts to see what the heater uses and I have a couple so I will find the smallest one. I went ahead and put in the 20amp breaker but I will get a 15 amp to try and see if it will work also without blowing the breaker. I am fairly certain the problem was the weak 15 amp I took out. I plugged the heater in and let it run for about a half hour. The wires stayed cool and the circuit did not blow. The heater is the ONLY thing plugged in. Nothing else. I feel better using that than the propane and it will only be on at night without anything else including lights. All the wires are newer looking romex house wires and seem to have been put in years after it was originally built. Thanks Randy

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Gumpit

I was in my camper earlier and wanted to see how well a ceramic heater would heat it up. After a while it tripped the circuit breaker on the inverter. I am not sure if I have the switch in the right position. Is there a way that it will run right off the 110v to the outlet or does it all run through the inverter? Randy

Hi, Randy
Were you by any chance powering anything else off the trailer circuit when it blew?
I have the same trailer you have and it came equipped with a 15 amp circuit breaker. Most electric space heaters draw 1500 watts and use most of the amperage available. Experience has taught me that the circuit will blow if anything much besides a light or two is added to the load.

Hope this helps

Francesca

[Gumpit]

Absolutely nothing else is being powered. The Heater is 1500watts so I think that and the weak 15amp breaker is the reason it trips. I think running the 20 amp will work as long as I dont run anything else. And I won't . But we will find out tomorrow night in NH. Thanks Randy

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Gumpit

Absolutely nothing else is being powered. The Heater is 1500watts so I think that and the weak 15amp breaker is the reason it trips. I think running the 20 amp will work as long as I dont run anything else. And I won't . But we will find out tomorrow night in NH. Thanks Randy

Here's a suggestion from Camp Cheapskate's get-your-money's-worth handbook:
I always carry an extra#12 outdoor cord and if I'm paying for hookups I run it through the "cable hatch" on the doorside of the trailer. Hookups these days are often at least 30 amps, and usually have two plug positions on the box.
I run the biggest drain item (usually the heater, sometimes the fridge) off the extra cord. (note: If it's the fridge, I just unplug it inside the access door and connect the extra cord there.) That gives me enough amproom for everything else I've got, including an electric percolator, a crockpot, and the charger/converter. I also carry a stepdown adapter for the rare occasions when there's nothing to plug in to but a 60 amp service.

I never use my propane and/or power if I'm paying to use somebody else's .

Have fun tomorrow night!

Francesca

[Rodre]

Hello,

My tow vehicle has the 12v charge line (I think, it is a GMC Envoy and according to the 6th post at http://forums.trailvoy.com/archive/i...p/t-27814.html it will charge a trailer battery. I know it will run the interior lighting and the fridge) from the alternator post that goes to the 7 pin wiring harness at the rear of the vehicle. Would it be possible for me to install a 12v deep cycle battery in the trailer and have the tow vehicle charge it and the trailer run off of it? If so how would I go about doing this? It may be worth mentioning that my Trillium does not have a power converter and the AC & DC power appear to be completely separate, with a breaker for the 110v power under the furnace.

Also, I noticed a 15amp fuse in a blue plastic fuse terminal located at the driver side front of the trailer, where the 7 pin wire connected to the tow vehicle meets the trailers wiring [harness]. This fuse terminal gets pretty hot. I can't tell if this is factory installed or not. My guess is that it is not. My trailer is a '78 Trillium 1300. Can anyone tell me if this is factory and if it is normal to get hot? Thanks!

~Rodre

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Rodre

Hello,

My tow vehicle has the 12v charge line (I think, it is a GMC Envoy and according to the 6th post at Red wire Where ? [Archive] - Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum it will charge a trailer battery. I know it will run the interior lighting and the fridge) from the alternator post that goes to the 7 pin wiring harness at the rear of the vehicle. Would it be possible for me to install a 12v deep cycle battery in the trailer and have the tow vehicle charge it and the trailer run off of it? If so how would I go about doing this? It may be worth mentioning that my Trillium does not have a power converter and the AC & DC power appear to be completely separate, with a breaker for the 110v power under the furnace.

Also, I noticed a 15amp fuse in a blue plastic fuse terminal located at the driver side front of the trailer, where the 7 pin wire connected to the tow vehicle meets the trailers wiring [harness]. This fuse terminal gets pretty hot. I can't tell if this is factory installed or not. My guess is that it is not. My trailer is a '78 Trillium 1300. Can anyone tell me if this is factory and if it is normal to get hot? Thanks!

~Rodre

Hi, Rodre

The first thing you ought to do is download the T1300 wiring diagram at Fiberglass RV - Document Center - trillium 1300 wiring diagram
Check to make sure that your wiring matches the diagram. People fool with the wiring a lot, and may have altered yours.
And yes, you can install a battery, but I wouldn't put it inside the trailer as it may emit toxic and/ or explosive gases. If your trailer hasn't ever had a battery, you may have to install a new wire for the purpose.

Good Luck!

Francesca

[Rodre]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Hi, Rodre

The first thing you ought to do is download the T1300 wiring diagram at Fiberglass RV - Document Center - trillium 1300 wiring diagram
Check to make sure that your wiring matches the diagram. People fool with the wiring a lot, and may have altered yours.
And yes, you can install a battery, but I wouldn't put it inside the trailer as it may emit toxic and/ or explosive gases. If your trailer hasn't ever had a battery, you may have to install a new wire for the purpose.

Good Luck!

Francesca

Hello,

Thanks for the reply and link to the wiring diagram. Yes, it would be my intention to mount a battery box around the hitch area, possibly replacing one of my propane tanks. After reviewing the diagram these are my questions:

1. I guess I would have to run the power and ground wires from the wiring harness inside the trailer back out to where I mount the battery box. Does anyone know what type and/or gauge of wire I would have to use? What about the connectors to the battery, is there any specific type? Also, would I need anything in between where I connect the wires and the battery such as a fuse, charge regulator, etc? Does anyone have pictures and/or specs of a factory installed battery setup?

2. It appears that the fuse would be factory installed. Mine only has a 15amp 32v fuse installed in it. Is it supposed to have a 20amp fuse installed in it? Would this explain why the fuse terminal/casing was getting so hot?

3. What is the E-Brake (blue wire) used for?

4. Is it possible that the yellow (unused) wire is for backup/reverse lamps seeing as how it runs the length and accross the back of the trailer? I bought a backup camera for my trailer and wouldn't mind hooking it into this yellow wire if that is the case.

Thanks everyone for the info!

~Rod

[Francesca Knowles]

Hello again,

It sounds like somebody's been "working" on your wiring; Trillium used that diagram for years.
I would definitely restore the wiring to match the diagram; it'll be a lot easier to work with down the road.
I'm a bit confused by your description of the fusebox- is it possible for you to post a picture? I think we'd be able to tell by looking if it's been replaced, and with what.
The hot fusebox would be a big concern for me- are you sure it's the fusebox, and not the wire? Wire that's too light will heat up, especially if somebody replaced the original copper with aluminum without upsizing the wire guage.
And what are you running off 12v when it gets hot?
The blue wire is your trailer brakes.
The yellow wire is an "extra". If your TV towplug is wired for backup lights, you can use the yellow wire for backup lights or camera. Maybe both, depending on voltage involved. It should run to both of your trailer taillights, though not hooked up.
I think that without a converter, you can connect a battery at the front where the fusebox is.
But get the fusebox squared away first!

Francesca

[Rodre]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Hello again,

It sounds like somebody's been "working" on your wiring; Trillium used that diagram for years.
I would definitely restore the wiring to match the diagram; it'll be a lot easier to work with down the road.
I'm a bit confused by your description of the fusebox- is it possible for you to post a picture? I think we'd be able to tell by looking if it's been replaced, and with what.
The hot fusebox would be a big concern for me- are you sure it's the fusebox, and not the wire? Wire that's too light will heat up, especially if somebody replaced the original copper with aluminum without upsizing the wire guage.
And what are you running off 12v when it gets hot?
The blue wire is your trailer brakes.
The yellow wire is an "extra". If your TV towplug is wired for backup lights, you can use the yellow wire for backup lights or camera. Maybe both, depending on voltage involved. It should run to both of your trailer taillights, though not hooked up.
I think that without a converter, you can connect a battery at the front where the fusebox is.
But get the fusebox squared away first!

Francesca

Hi,

Actually, my wiring does match the diagram exactly, except that my unit never had a battery and the fuse in the fuse carrier is 15amp vs. 20amp. I will post a picture of the fuse carrier to see if it matches other peoples.

All I am running on the fuse when it gets hot is the fridge, and the various stock lights and not all at the same time. I am thinking it may be due to the 15amp fuse in there instead of the 20amp fuse.

~Rod

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Rodre

Hi,

Actually, my wiring does match the diagram exactly, except that my unit never had a battery and the fuse in the fuse carrier is 15amp vs. 20amp. I will post a picture of the fuse carrier to see if it matches other peoples.

All I am running on the fuse when it gets hot is the fridge, and the various stock lights and not all at the same time. I am thinking it may be due to the 15amp fuse in there instead of the 20amp fuse.

~Rod

Hi, Rodre

It's strange to me that the fusebox heats up, but the fuse doesn't blow
The fridge does draw a lot of power, though.
Is it strictly a 12v/110v fridge? I ask because I understand that you're carrying two propane tanks- if you've got a 3-way fridge, you might want to consider running it off propane when camped. It's my understanding that12v was originally intended for traveling.
I'm going to put out a call for somebody to weigh in here that knows more about wiring than I do.
Stay tuned!

Francesca

[Rodre]

Hi Francesca,

Actually, the fuse did blow once so far, that is how I found the fuse carrier. The trailer is still pretty new to me so I am still figuring it out. Yes, the fridge is a 3 way and I was using the 12vdc for travelling. The fuse carrier in the driver side front area of the trailer is blue in color and of the "inline" type. I noticed the fridge also has a 10amp ceramic fuse in the "control box" in a similar type of fuse carrier. I wasn't sure if someone installed the fuse carrier in the driver side front compartment because the fuse in the fridges control box kept blowing, to make it easier access for a change or not. From the wiring diagram it would appear that the fuse in the driver side compartment of the trailer is factory, but now I am not sure if it is supposed to have a 20amp fuse like the wiring diagram depicts, or the 15amp fuse that was in there. I am thinking maybe someone put in the 15amp fuse because that is all they had on hand and that may be what is causing the heat build up.

Any additional info would be much appreciated and I will post a picture of the wiring in that area for comparison sake once I get home later tonight. Thanks!

~Rodre

[Francesca Knowles]

Rodre,

I put out a M'aidez (HELP ME!) call at another thread-
Here's hoping!

Francesca

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Rodre,

I put out a M'aidez (HELP ME!) call at another thread-
Here's hoping!

Francesca

OK,,,, I'll try.
Let's start with the Scamp wiring diagram. http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/d...gram_Scamp.pdf
It's close enough if not the same the start with.

[Rodre]

Hmmm, I am getting "Page not found" when I use that link. I will try to find it in the doc center.

~Rodre

[Donna D.]

Rod, try this one: Fiberglass RV - Document Center - WiringDiagram_Scamp

[Francesca Knowles]

If it helps at all, here's a picture of the factory setup in my '78 4500. When I installed outside access doors, I moved the box to the wall-original location is unpainted spot on floor at lower left corner of pic. No changes otherwise.
The harness I'm holding in the picture is battery power line-there are two 15A fuses here-???
Trailer came from factory with a converter...

............................

Francesca

[Rodre]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

If it helps at all, here's a picture of the factory setup in my '78 4500. When I installed outside access doors, I moved the box to the wall-original location is unpainted spot on floor at lower left corner of pic. No changes otherwise.
The harness I'm holding in the picture is battery power line-there are two 15A fuses here-???
Trailer came from factory with a converter...

.............Attachment 35636...............Attachment 35635

Francesca

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures! Hmmm, my inline fuse carrier is different and I only have one, but maybe the 15 amp fuse is the correct one? I got home late last night and didn't have a chance to photograph mine but I will try again to do it tonight. I need to get to the bottom of this before I move forward with the battery installation. Nice access doors!

~Rod

[Casita Greg]

Can you determine the gauge of the wire your fuse holder is hooked up in? If it is 14 gauge, your would be limited (for fire safety) to only a 15 amp fuse. If it is 12 gauge wire, it can handle 20 amp fuse. A 10 gauge wire can up you to 30 amps, but don't discount the maximum rating of the appliance being served. It's not all just about the wire size, but the rating of the load or appliance as well. Least common denominator kinda thing.

Check all your terminals and connection points for corrosion and poor connections too. Extra resistance = extra heat production.

[Rick G]

Originally Posted by Rodre

Hello,

My tow vehicle has the 12v charge line (I think, it is a GMC Envoy and according to the 6th post at Red wire Where ? [Archive] - Chevy TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer SS and GMC Envoy Forum it will charge a trailer battery. I know it will run the interior lighting and the fridge) from the alternator post that goes to the 7 pin wiring harness at the rear of the vehicle. Would it be possible for me to install a 12v deep cycle battery in the trailer and have the tow vehicle charge it and the trailer run off of it? If so how would I go about doing this? It may be worth mentioning that my Trillium does not have a power converter and the AC & DC power appear to be completely separate, with a breaker for the 110v power under the furnace.

Also, I noticed a 15amp fuse in a blue plastic fuse terminal located at the driver side front of the trailer, where the 7 pin wire connected to the tow vehicle meets the trailers wiring [harness]. This fuse terminal gets pretty hot. I can't tell if this is factory installed or not. My guess is that it is not. My trailer is a '78 Trillium 1300. Can anyone tell me if this is factory and if it is normal to get hot? Thanks!

~Rodre

On my Trillium 4500, the first thing that the main wire from the battery sees once it gets into the trailer is an automatically resetting circuit breaker, which was original equipment. The 12V interior wiring originally was separated into two paths. One went to the fridge, and the other went to the back of the trailer for the interior lights (and propane detector). Since my trailer had a converter, the back wire went to it, where there was a switch that a person could flip to select either the battery power or the converter output for the interior lights. The wiring was a floppy mess in the front driver side dinette compartment screwed to the floor much like in Francesca’s photo.

If you are getting heat from any wiring, the most likely culprit is a bad (high resistance) connection. Resistance to current flow creates heat, that is how your electric stove works.

The mess of wires also includes all the wiring that runs from the 7 pin trailer connector to the exterior stop and tail and marker lights. These wires, though they run inside the trailer, have nothing to do with the interior lighting/appliance system other than being physically in the same cable. It is just a messy coincidence that all the wires are together.

I recently added another circuit (a 12V outlet on the front dinette seat wall which also serves as an inlet for my battery charger) and moved the whole mess up against the dinette wall so that I could put in a false wall so that the storage compartment could be utilized better. I also put in an ATO-style fuse block ($9 at Princess Auto) and wired all the 12V interior wiring through it for my 3 circuits. I also installed a new 110V outlet on the kitchen unit and a power bar inside the cabinet for attaching more stuff later. I am including a circuit diagram that shows all of my current 110V and 12V wiring for the interior circuits of the trailer. The one thing missing from that diagram is a battery disconnect switch right at the battery that I have bought but not yet installed, which will let me easily disconnect the battery from everything.

Hope that helps.
Rick G