Trillium trailer 12V wiring

[Francesca Knowles]

Really cool diagram and great-looking plan but AAARGH !!!
I see you have two separate and distinct ground connections.
We just got very thoroughly taught that this is BAD BAD BAD.
Plus, it's BAD.
The thread is a "current" discussion at http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...-on-46062.html, page two is the explanation.
I'm going to go lie down with a wet rag on my head while the controversy goes on.
Later!


Francesca

[Rodre]

I am wondering if they put the auto reseting fuses in the units with the converters and the el cheapo one in the units without the converter? Does anyone have a late 70's 1300 without the converter? I haven't had a good chance to give the wiring a good examination in the harness area, but the bulk of it I have seen through the trailer looks factory. My feeling was it was getting hot from the load put on it by the fridge, or because maybe it should have had a 20amp fuse, but I will look for wires in the wrong direction as well. I am also going to see if I can identify the wire guage as mentioned a few posts above. I will also try and get a photo of it all here. Last night I got side tracked when I found 20 year old cola/chocolate syrup/soya sauce/idunnowhat spilled in the corner of the cupboard and ended up having to pull the 110v light, it's conduit which had rusted out due to the spill, and the ensolite to clean up the sticky/oily/gross mess. The ensolite cleaned up quite nicely, even the rubber foam backing, so now I need to put all that back in and source a new conduit. If anyone has their old unsued conduit kicking around I would love to get my hands on it to save me from trying to find one with the right hole pattern that matches the ones already drilled in the fiberglass.

~Rod

[Greg H]

Francesca remember the other day, I said to just sit back and watch.

[Francesca Knowles]

[Greg H]

That's cool.

[Francesca Knowles]

All quiet so far....

I'm afraid to look at the other thread...
Francesca

[Roger C H]

I would be very careful replacing 15 amp equipment with 20 amp. The main concern is the wiring. Here is a link that tells you what each gauge of wire will carry or conversly, if you want to carry X amperage, what wire size you need:

Ampacity Charts

[Rodre]

Originally Posted by Roger C H

I would be very careful replacing 15 amp equipment with 20 amp. The main concern is the wiring. Here is a link that tells you what each gauge of wire will carry or conversly, if you want to carry X amperage, what wire size you need:

Ampacity Charts

Thanks Roger, that is going to be a huge help when I get the battery setup.

I took a good look at the wiring last night. It looks like the fuse was added, possibly as a replacement, after the factory. The fuse is on the black power wire from the vehicle. I am not sure if the light blue wires that are connected to the darker blue wire under the black caps (see picture) that is part of the red fuse carrier were part of the original fuse or not, as they appear to be terminated under the white caps which appear to be factory. I think the fuse is getting hot because the wires that are part of the fuse setup are a smaller guage than the black wires on either side of it. In any case I am going to replace the fuse with an auto resetting one and will probably stick with a 15amp fuse, as all I have inside that uses the 12v power in my trailer is the fridge, which I believe uses 8amps (I have the manual so I will double check this), and 3 dome lights. Does anyone know the amp draw of the dome lights?

My next question is: Whould I run the charge wire out to the dedicated trailer battery from before the fuse or after the fuse? Does any one have a factory battery setup they can explain out to me?

~Rod

[Casita Greg]

"Really cool diagram and great-looking plan but AAARGH !!!
I see you have two separate and distinct ground connections.
We just got very thoroughly taught that this is BAD BAD BAD.
Plus, it's BAD."

It's ok Francesca,

Don't be afraid of it, it's only a "line diagram" way of showing what's hooked up to what. It does show two different grounds, one is for the 120 vac side, and one is for the 12 vdc side. Although they appear to be at opposite ends of the drawing, they should both be, in the actual installation, made at the same point on the frame. It's all still good!

Greg

[Rodre]

I just referenced the Trillium wireing diagram and it appears that the lead out to the dedicated trailer battery would be needed to be placed before the fuse. Can anyone confirm this for me? Also looking back at Francesca's wiring photo it would appear that the light blue wire may have been factory, as I can see similar coloured wire in her photo, now I just wonder what was here before?

Also, the yellow wire is indeed connected to the tow vehicles backup lights (center pin on 7 way plug). I tested this with a multi-meter and it is confirmed. I picked up a wireless backup camera and monitor at Pep boys for $60 so I think I will install it here. I was thinking to install it so it had power all the time so I could use it as a rear view mirror while towing, but I am not sure if this would cause the camera to burn out pre-maturely. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

~Rod

[Casita Greg]

"I just referenced the Trillium wiring diagram, and it appears that the lead out to the dedicated trailer battery would be needed to be placed before the fuse. Can anyone confirm this for me?"

I'm not sure where exactly your battery is mounted in relation to the other end of the power lead, but as a general rule, the closer a fuse or breaker can be installed to the power source, the better (and safer) the circuit protection would be.

As an example, let's say, for some reason, that your power supply lead managed to become abraded and the insulation was no longer intact. If that spot came into contact with a grounded spot on the trailer, or with another grounded component, you would most probably melt all the insulation off the wire from the battery to the point of the short, perhaps even melt the wire itself, and possibly burn up your whole trailer, because the fuse or breaker, located further downstream, wouldn't even be seeing any of the excess current flow occurring before it.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Rodre

Also looking back at Francesca's wiring photo it would appear that the light blue wire may have been factory, as I can see similar coloured wire in her photo, now I just wonder what was here before?
~Rod

The blue wire you see in my photo is the electric brakes.
Unless that's true of the blue wire in yours, someone has done the old "use whatever wire is lying around" trick.
I'm a total fanatic when it comes to using correct wire color and guage. I'm confused enough as it is!
You'd be doing yourself (and the next owner!) a big favor if you made sure that your wires follow the color coding on the Trillium diagram...

Francesca

[Casita Greg]

I agree totally with you on that one. Trailer wiring is a pain in the A** as it is, but to have "non-compliant" and non standard color coded wiring only adds to the misery of trying to figure out where and what some lead goes to.

[Rodre]

Hi Greg,

I am thinking to mount the battery around the hitch area, probably in the place of one of my propane tanks. I would need to run positive and negative leads from inside the trailer back out to this area (and possible back in?). I really wish I could see how a factory job was wired so I could just replcate it.

I think it would have to look something like this:

power from 7 way connected to vehicle -> wired out to battery -> wired back into trailer to 15amp fuse -> trailer wiring harness

and the negative would be the same minus the inline fuse.

Does this sound about right?

~Rod

~Rod

[Casita Greg]

Power to charge the trailer battery from the tow vehicle's alternator can be tapped out of the wiring harness from your 7-pin connector, as you had planned, and brought right in to your battery (+) terminal on the trailer tongue. This is fine, but I would also suggest (if you don't already have one) that the alternator charging output lead to the 7-pin connector is equipped with either a fuse or resetting circuit breaker right at the alternator's output terminal. Again, for the same reason as in the example I used above, if a short were to occur in this power feed line under your tow rig, it could create a fire if there is no circuit protection device installed to break the current flow should a direct short happen.

Other than that, I see no problem with what you propose to do. Have fun with your project.

Greg

[Rodre]

Hi Greg,

Yes, there is a fuse on the vehicle side of the alternator output of the charge wire, although it is 30amp and part of the fusebox but right at the post. One [hopefully] last questions, what guage and type of wire should I have running out to the battery and back in? Should I just use the same guage that comes of the 7 way connector on the trailer? Also, if I kept the seond propane bottle and added a battery box would this be too heavy for the trailer frame in the hitch area? I am not worried about the tongue weight because I know the tow vehicle can handle it.

~Rod

[Casita Greg]

I would suggest installing not less than a 10 gauge stranded conductor wire for the battery charging line, even an 8 gauge wouldn't hurt. A lot of folks are not seeing sufficient current flow making it back to their trailer battery to provide effective charging current. Much of this problem can be attributed in large part to the voltage drop (resistance) experienced from using undersized conductors.

Don't forget, that your poor alternator will be doing "double duty" having to provide charging curent to two batteries now, in addition to all your tow vehicles electrical demands while underway, (i.e. radio, ac fan, heater blower, lights, etc.)

As far as the added weight on the tongue, I'd have to defer to someone else, who owns a Trillium, as I'm not familiar with their tongue/frame load capacity. Perhaps another Trillium owner can give you some input on that issue.

[Rodre]

Originally Posted by Rick G

...I also put in an ATO-style fuse block ($9 at Princess Auto) and wired all the 12V interior wiring through it for my 3 circuits...

Hi Rick,

Is this what you put in as a fuse block?:

http://www.princessauto.com/trailer/...-circuit-panel

~Rod

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Casita Greg

As far as the added weight on the tongue, I'd have to defer to someone else, who owns a Trillium, as I'm not familiar with their tongue/frame load capacity. Perhaps another Trillium owner can give you some input on that issue.

Now THIS is something I DO know about!

Rodre,

Be sure to check out the thread at http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...00s-46068.html.
There was a front-frame-related recall of Trilliums during your trailer's era- 1978 isn't specifically named, and you may be O.K., but it's worth a look, anyway. The thread is a big help in understanding the issues involved.

Francesca

[Rodre]

Thanks for the Heads Up! Francesca, That was something I knew to look for when buying the trailer. I *think* after they resolved the issue the two front bolts no longer go all the way through the frame and end inside the tube, I will have to double check mine when I get home to see if this is the case, but I know mine also has the "fish plates" added to the sides of the frame tubing for re-enforcement as well.

~Rodre