Trillium trailer 12V wiring - Page 6 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 05-06-2011, 05:14 PM   #71
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Hi Rick, Thanks for the explanation, it is clear to me now, although I am curious to see how the exit and re-entry point looks like in the 7 way cable so I can decide if I want to cut into my cable or if it is a special cable. This would save me from running the wires out to the battery then back into the trailer. You have been a tremendous help to me and I will be sure to post my results and try to take pictures as well for others who wish to make this conversion.

One thing I should mention is that I noticed my trailer had two separate ground points to the frame, one for the 110v and one for the 12v. If i connect the 12v ground to the frame around the battery should I disconnect the one from inside?

~Rodre
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:34 PM   #72
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Hi Rick, Thanks for the explanation, it is clear to me now, although I am curious to see how the exit and re-entry point looks like in the 7 way cable so I can decide if I want to cut into my cable or if it is a special cable. This would save me from running the wires out to the battery then back into the trailer. You have been a tremendous help to me and I will be sure to post my results and try to take pictures as well for others who wish to make this conversion.

One thing I should mention is that I noticed my trailer had two separate ground points to the frame, one for the 110v and one for the 12v. If i connect the 12v ground to the frame around the battery should I disconnect the one from inside?

~Rodre
I will take some pictures of my cables and post them, it may help. As for the grounding points, I assume that you mean that you have two grounding points for the 12V, one inside the trailer and one near the battery. If so, then yes, I would just use the one ground point for 12V near the battery.

However, if you meant that you have one ground point for the 12V near the battery, and one ground point for the 110V inside the trailer, then keep both of them. The 110V must be grounded to the frame somewhere, usually near where it enters the trailer. The 12V should also be grounded to the frame. It does not matter that both these ground points are on the same trailer frame for different sources of electricity, in fact it is a good thing.

Rick G
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:48 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Rick G View Post
I will take some pictures of my cables and post them, it may help. As for the grounding points, I assume that you mean that you have two grounding points for the 12V, one inside the trailer and one near the battery. If so, then yes, I would just use the one ground point for 12V near the battery.

However, if you meant that you have one ground point for the 12V near the battery, and one ground point for the 110V inside the trailer, then keep both of them. The 110V must be grounded to the frame somewhere, usually near where it enters the trailer. The 12V should also be grounded to the frame. It does not matter that both these ground points are on the same trailer frame for different sources of electricity, in fact it is a good thing.

Rick G

Hi Rick,

Actually, my trailer currently, without the battery setup we have been discussing, has 2 ground points, 1 is for the 110v and you are correct that it is near where the 110v enters, the other is for the 12v. Both are attached to the frame on the driver side under the trailer. My question is: if I attach a ground from the negative battery post to the frame as part of the battery installation (this connection doesn't currently exist), should I remove/disconnect the currently existing 12v ground?

~Rod
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:38 PM   #74
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Hi Rick,

Actually, my trailer currently, without the battery setup we have been discussing, has 2 ground points, 1 is for the 110v and you are correct that it is near where the 110v enters, the other is for the 12v. Both are attached to the frame on the driver side under the trailer. My question is: if I attach a ground from the negative battery post to the frame as part of the battery installation (this connection doesn't currently exist), should I remove/disconnect the currently existing 12v ground?

~Rod
I think that it actually does not matter, as the ground point for your existing 12V will only be a few feet away from the new battery location. However, there is an argument that it is better to have the ground be very close to the source of the electricity (the battery in this case) so that the ground runs through less wiring. I might feel more comfortable with a new ground point for the 12V as close to the battery as is practical, but either way will work.

Attached is a photo of my cable where it would connect to the battery if my battery was installed. You can see, sort of, the two +12V wires (upper left, with the red tape on one wire) and the two negative return wires (also two lugs in the same wiring bundle) and that the two sets of wires branch off from the main bundle of wires, which then continues on into the trailer.

I removed the ground wire so I could paint the hitch area, so it is not in the picture but will be re-installed later.

Rick G
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:46 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick G View Post
I think that it actually does not matter, as the ground point for your existing 12V will only be a few feet away from the new battery location. However, there is an argument that it is better to have the ground be very close to the source of the electricity (the battery in this case) so that the ground runs through less wiring. I might feel more comfortable with a new ground point for the 12V as close to the battery as is practical, but either way will work.

Attached is a photo of my cable where it would connect to the battery if my battery was installed. You can see, sort of, the two +12V wires (upper left, with the red tape on one wire) and the two negative return wires (also two lugs in the same wiring bundle) and that the two sets of wires branch off from the main bundle of wires, which then continues on into the trailer.

I removed the ground wire so I could paint the hitch area, so it is not in the picture but will be re-installed later.

Rick G
Hi Rick,

Picture is awesome, as they say: worth a thousand words! Thanks for that. It looks like they may have just spliced into the cable at the factory. I may consider doing the same thing and wrapping everything in that automotive cable wrap.

I guess if I add a ground to the trailer frame at the battery I my not need the second 12v ground. Would haveing two 12v grounds hurt anything? I am going to have to see how they made the ground of the existing cabling.

~Rodre
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:38 PM   #76
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Hi, All!
Here's the Scamp wiring diagram- I've got some questions about what I see here...
Is the "return line" the white wire coming off the battery? Would there be a grounding sideline off that wire?
And are there two fuses in the black (positive?) line, one inside and one outside?
Lastly, I see the green ground line throughout, but can't tell where it's connected to the frame-?
P.S. Edit later the same day:What are the four red blocks labeled "marker"?



Thanks

Francesca
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:54 AM   #77
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Yes, the white wires are your return lines to complete the round trip current paths for your various 12 vdc circuits, hooked to negative post (-) of the battery. Although the schematic doesn't show it, this white will also be attached to the frame as well (ground to frame).

The fuse (shown below the battery in the drawing) is your main battery fuse (probably 30 amp if the wire is 10 gauge, or 20 amp if wire is 12 gauge) which provides protection to the battery's incoming charging line from the tow vehicle, (via the 7-pin connector, when attached.) Ideally, this fuse should be located under the hood near your tow vehicles' alternator, if it isn't already, (close to the power source) where it would better protect the charging circuit wire from burning up if a short were to occur in this wire in an area between the alternator and the battery. Always put your fuse or breaker as close as possible to the source of power on any circuit to be protected.

The other fuse (marked "under front bunk") is an in-line circuit protection fuse for the circuits feeding the converter and 12 vdc lights. The converter also redistributes additional loads to the furnace, refrigerator, TV antenna booster, and your 12 vdc water pump.

The four red blocks that say "marker" denote your front and rear marker lights (running lights) on the four corners of your trailer.
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Old 05-07-2011, 02:47 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Yes, the white wires are your return lines to complete the round trip current paths for your various 12 vdc circuits, hooked to negative post (-) of the battery. Although the schematic doesn't show it, this white will also be attached to the frame as well (ground to frame).

The fuse (shown below the battery in the drawing) is your main battery fuse (probably 30 amp if the wire is 10 gauge, or 20 amp if wire is 12 gauge) which provides protection to the battery's incoming charging line from the tow vehicle, (via the 7-pin connector, when attached.) Ideally, this fuse should be located under the hood near your tow vehicles' alternator, if it isn't already, (close to the power source) where it would better protect the charging circuit wire from burning up if a short were to occur in this wire in an area between the alternator and the battery. Always put your fuse or breaker as close as possible to the source of power on any circuit to be protected.

The other fuse (marked "under front bunk") is an in-line circuit protection fuse for the circuits feeding the converter and 12 vdc lights. The converter also redistributes additional loads to the furnace, refrigerator, TV antenna booster, and your 12 vdc water pump.

The four red blocks that say "marker" denote your front and rear marker lights (running lights) on the four corners of your trailer.
.."Marker".... LIGHTS???....oh............heh heh.........

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd have to grow some brains JUST to be ONLY as dumb as a rock

Moving right along...

Let's see if I've got this much right:
1) I have the breaker you describe installed under the hood, so I don't need another charge line fuse before the battery.
2)The white return line is to be connected from the negative battery post directly to the (grounded to frame) converter. Is the white line grounded thereby or must it be split before entering the converter and directly connected to the converter's "equipment ground" post?
3)The all-black harness in the picture below is the equivalent of the "under bunk" point in the Scamp diagram. However it "splits" to supply12v power to the fridge on one leg and the converter on the other. Each leg provides downstream protection between those points via its own (pictured) 15a fuseholder.
4)The converter distributes 12v power throughout (except fridge), providing downstream protection from that point via its own 15a fuse.

That's about all my brain can wrestle with in one swoop, so I'll post this much and wait for you to tell me how much if any of the above is correct!

Thanks for your patience!

Francesca
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Old 05-07-2011, 07:38 PM   #79
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1) I have the breaker you describe installed under the hood, so I don't need another charge line fuse before the battery.
This is good, and shouldn't require any further alterations.

2)The white return line is to be connected from the negative battery post directly to the (grounded to frame) converter. Is the white line grounded thereby or must it be split before entering the converter and directly connected to the converter's "equipment ground" post?
It doesn't neccessarily need to be "split" again. Your white wire(s) from all your branch circuits, and the white ground from the converter, and the ground wire to the frame can all be attached to the same (common) ground point, where your main green ground wire attaches to the frame.

3)The all-black harness in the picture below is the equivalent of the "under bunk" point in the Scamp diagram. However it "splits" to supply12v power to the fridge on one leg and the converter on the other. Each leg provides downstream protection between those points via its own (pictured) 15a fuseholder.
4)The converter distributes 12v power throughout (except fridge), providing downstream protection from that point via its own 15a fuse.
The two lines that provide power to the fridge and the converter can be considered to be two individually fused power supply leads coming from the same battery (+) connection. The drawing only shows one feed line from the battery, but consider them to be the equivalent, its just that your fridge has its own fused power lead instead of being powered from a branch circuit of the converter. (They just bypassed running it through the converter, but it is still protected by a fuse.)
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:43 PM   #80
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Mr. Teacher Man,

Thanks!
I'm keeping copious notes and think I'm on my way to a better understanding.
I'll be taking a closer look in the next day or two and hope you'll be around for my inevitable next questions!

Thanks again,

Francesca
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:11 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Rodre View Post
Hi Rick,

Picture is awesome, as they say: worth a thousand words! Thanks for that. It looks like they may have just spliced into the cable at the factory. I may consider doing the same thing and wrapping everything in that automotive cable wrap.

I guess if I add a ground to the trailer frame at the battery I my not need the second 12v ground. Would haveing two 12v grounds hurt anything? I am going to have to see how they made the ground of the existing cabling.

~Rodre
If it was a house, then only 1 ground point should be used, because there might be a different ground potential between the two grounding points (which are actually metal stakes driven into the ground) which could create a current flow in the ground path, which is a bad thing. If you ever have diagonal black bars across your TV screen or a hum in your stereo, that is often a result of having two (or no) ground paths in the circuit. Conventional wisdom would suggest that it is better to have only one ground path on your trailer for the 12V. However, given that it is a solid metal frame and the two ground points are only a few feet apart, I would expect that having two ground points for 12V on your trailer frame would be perfectly safe. However, I would still make it just one ground point for 12V, near the battery, because then in the future you won't have to remember that you did something the non-standard way if you or a future owner want to make changes.

Rick G
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Old 05-17-2011, 05:06 PM   #82
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In looking at the wiring it appears that there may only be one ground point to the frame. I think I mistook the green wires from the wiring harness as the ground. I could have sworn I saw a second ground point to the frame, just under where the wiring harness, but it looks like I may be wrong. I am about to pull focus on the wiring of my Trillium so I will know for sure soon.

I am missing one fo the black marrette caps. If anyone has any left over from redoing the wiring I would love to get my hands on it so I don't have to put a new one in due to the missing cap. It says "Marr M92" on it with the CSA logo at the top. It looks like this:
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:19 PM   #83
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Yes, only one ground point to the frame and it is coming from the 110v breaker (my Trillium doesn't have a power converter :-( ). I also miraculously found the missing cap pictured above in a crevice in the floorboards in the rear storage compartment. I couldn't beleive my eyes where I was feeling around for the wiring in that area and my hand produced the cap. Code red over :-P
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:24 PM   #84
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sorry for the hi-jack...but this seems to be related...ihope!

our 1978 4500 does not have a battery. it has the progressive converter.

wanting to know if the fridge is powered off 12v when pluged into shore power? does the fridge get its power from the converter or does it come from the 120volt side?

someone here mentioned using a delran battery tender as a battery charger(smart) in place of the old converter............i ues 3 of these for other toys when i'm away from home for extended times, so i am fimiliar with how they work(very well!!).........if you were to do this would you complety seperate your 120volt /12 volt systems? and wire up a 120 volt home plug for your smart charger for charging the battery ?

just thinking about re-wiring and adding a battery... looking for tips? thank you
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