Using side marker lights as turn signals - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 12-21-2006, 12:59 PM   #21
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The separated signals are readily accommodated in the RV style connector by assigning the auxiliary connector (the centre round pin with the yellow wire) for the stop (brake) light, and reassigning the left and right pins to be for the turn signals only, not combined brake and turn.
If I was to use the center yellow wire for brake lights I'd loose my back up lights.
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Old 12-21-2006, 06:19 PM   #22
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If I was to use the center yellow wire for brake lights I'd loose my back up lights.
True. The auxiliary pin can be used for whatever you want, and a separate stop (usually to allow separate turn signals as well) is only the most common use. Boler (at least around the time of my 1979) ran a yellow wire from this pin to the back of the trailer in the factory, intending it to be used for a stop light, but that installation works just as well for reverse lights.

I'm sure someone has found other uses besides these two for an extra circuit; the never-ending need for more may be why there is a 9-pin Bargman-style connector, shown in the Dexter trailer wiring diagram, up to 14 pins from Cole Hersee, and even more in connectors used in specialty applications such as military vehicles. It is nice to stay with the nearest-to-standard connection, which means only 7 pins.

I think separated stop and signal lights are more valuable (than a reverse light driven by the tow vehicle), especially if side-mounted repeaters are fitted, and I think I would be willing to go to a manual switch for the reverse lights (mounted in the tongue area at the wiring junction box) as a compromise; the reverse lights could just stay on for the whole maneuvering period, as long I remembered to turn them off before driving away. A small reminder light - mounted on the front of the trailer, visible in a rear-view mirror, wired to the trailer's reverse circuit, and probably white - might help with that.
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Old 12-21-2006, 10:07 PM   #23
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I think separated stop and signal lights are more valuable (than a reverse light driven by the tow vehicle), especially if side-mounted repeaters are fitted, and I think I would be willing to go to a manual switch for the reverse lights (mounted in the tongue area at the wiring junction box) as a compromise; the reverse lights could just stay on for the whole maneuvering period, as long I remembered to turn them off before driving away. A small reminder light - mounted on the front of the trailer, visible in a rear-view mirror, wired to the trailer's reverse circuit, and probably white - might help with that.
I really like my back-up lights. The trailer came wired from the Scamp factory for back-up lights and the instructions for the tow vehicle indicated the back-up light wiring. I was actually surprised how well they work.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:12 AM   #24
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The plug and socket which I have seen for commercial trucks is a [b]round-bodied 7-pin design (commonly made by Cole Hersee, e.g. their part 12061); it is different from the RV or "Bargman" style (which also has a round body) in that it is smaller and has all round pins. The normal use of this design accommodates separate brake and turn signals - and even a separate line for clearance lights (separate from the running or tail lights) - in only 7 pins because it does not use any for battery-charging power or for electric brakes. In no particular order...
  • ground
  • tail
  • stop
  • left turn
  • right turn
  • clearance
  • auxiliary
I guess the point is that commercial trailers routinely have separate brake and turn signals available, so they can run those side-mounted turn signals properly.
Thank you Brian. Of course, this is what I was thinking of.
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I really like my back-up lights.
So do I. I am not ready to give them up for side mounted turn signals.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:22 AM   #25
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Many people have Receiver cover / Brake Light units installed when they're not towing. However, these also flash with the turn signals since they use the 4-pin flat trailer connecter for power. Somehow, this is OK, while brake light effects on the side are not...
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:18 PM   #26
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Many people have Receiver cover / Brake Light units installed when they're not towing...
Somehow, this is OK, while brake light effects on the side are not...
This is OK because it is a red light on the back of the vehicle, not a light on the side; there's a huge difference. Even if someone mistakes a turn signal for brake action, the consequences seem much less than those of indicating that a vehicle is about to change lanes into another vehicle.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:48 PM   #27
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[*]use one relay per side to invert the side markers with the turn signal
  • they are on whenever the taillights are on, except that they cycle off during each turn flash
  • they are off when the taillights are off, except that they cycle on during each turn signal flash
  • this could be wired with one input from the taillight circuit and the other from a power passed on by a normally-closed relay which opened by the tail circuit (a logical "not" function); the output to the side turn signals is from the common terminal of the relay
  • this is basically how the combined brake/turn lamps are managed in the wiring of the tow vehicle or converter

Maybe I missed it, and all arguments about the wisdom/legality of blinking the side markers aside, but there is another, in some ways simpler way to do the same thing.

The 12V positive for the parking lights is run to the positive side of the side marker and the other wire, usually connected to ground, is instead tied to the positive side of the directional signal on the same side of the trailer. That way, when the directional is not on, the side marker grounds through the turn signal bulb's filament and the side marker, having less current draw than the directional, lights up. When the turn signal turns on, the side marker now has 12V positive on both sides of the bulb and it goes out.

Many cars use this arrangement on the front. Of course, it won't work if you're using LEDs for directionals, either...
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Old 12-23-2006, 01:10 PM   #28
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I don't think you've missed anything Lee - that does sound like a workable alternative to me. Yes, as you mentioned it won't work with LED rear turn indicators (because the current can't flow backwards to the normal direction of those rear lights if they are diodes). The other condition (that the side markers have higher resistance than the turn indicators) may be more of a problem, depending on the number of side marker lights - maybe okay on our short trailers which would presumably only have two, and maybe only one (the front) set up to flash this way.
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Old 12-23-2006, 07:21 PM   #29
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A blinking yellow light up high on a 5th wheel where the passenger and possibly the driver of a vehicle parallel to the 5th wheel could see is nothing more than a caution signal regardless if the truck pulling the trailer was applying the brakes or making a turn signal. Brakes are not normally applied in a timed manner such as a turn signal anyway and the running lights remain on all the time and do not flash. More than likely the driver of the parallel vehicle would be unable to see both red taillights of the truck doing the pulling and the cautionary yellow signal should alert the driver to something is going on.
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Old 12-23-2006, 09:53 PM   #30
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... all arguments about the wisdom/legality of blinking the side markers aside...
A few people have mentioned that it would be a good idea to check for legality, but I haven't heard an argument (or any kind of disagreement) here about that; I think everyone who has posted agrees that it's a good idea to blink on the sides for turn signals, so there's no argument there, either.

Al, I'm looking forward to hearing what you decide to do.
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:53 PM   #31
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[b]IMHO you need a 2nd set of lights; I have purchased an additional amber set, and plan to mount them just above the existing amber side marker lights toward the front of the coach. You need to keep the original marker lights intact.

Keep in mind that these will light when you [b]brake as well.
Just before embarking on my 3 week road trip from San Diego via The Oregon Gathering to Saint Louis and back to San Diego, I installed my 2nd set of amber side markers just above the existing side marker lights toward the front of my Fiber Stream, and I wired these [b]extra lights into the turn signal/brake light circuits. They worked well, as expected. I did not notice any improvement in other drivers behavior, however.
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