Which year Scamp 13 is best?

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

My bad, I thought I saw it in a thread here but can't find it. Ignore my previous post. Sorry to have muddied the waters.

The really early Scamps were thinner, both in fiberglass and in the gauge of steel used in the frame. But that was 35-40 years ago.
New Scamp13s do have some added support in the roof for A/C prep.


No worries...

The waters of Scamp history are muddied enough that you certainly didn't add any turbidity!

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by floyd

...
Now lets consider margin for safety...
Many here believe that there is none provided in the ratings, and that the consumer must provide his own... Often more than 25%.
..

Actually my (limited) experience is that the tow ratings push the envelope already. Perhaps the vehicle manufacturers want to claim as high as rating as they can get away with with the engineers in agreement (perhaps reluctant agreement). I see many vehicles with a tow rating that are not really designed to tow at all, but they do manage. And there is often the fine print that says something like tow rating is based on only a driver, near sea level, etc.

I've never been comfortable towing near the rating limits, at least not in the long term. Sooner or later I always end up wishing I had more towing capacity.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Actually my (limited) experience is that the tow ratings push the envelope already. Perhaps the vehicle manufacturers want to claim as high as rating as they can get away with with the engineers in agreement (perhaps reluctant agreement). I see many vehicles with a tow rating that are not really designed to tow at all, but they do manage. And there is often the fine print that says something like tow rating is based on only a driver, near sea level, etc.

I've never been comfortable towing near the rating limits, at least not in the long term. Sooner or later I always end up wishing I had more towing capacity.

So now we know that you feel that you must provide your own margin of safety, therefore you must not trust manufacturers to set the standards.
Since the manufacturers are always wrong or have ulterior motives, why use their numbers as a starting point from which to set your own?
Is it then just an arbitrary place to start?


We sorta agree except for that wishing thing.
As I said earlier...
"Take a look at what you plan to tow and with what, then apply common sense instead of wishful thinking."


Do you then think that all vehicles rated for 2000 pounds are equally capable of towing 2000 pounds and therefore all fall short equally?


For instance... lets take a vehicle with a truck chassis and 1600 pound payload rating and big brakes, compared to a compact car with small brakes with less than a 1000 pound payload rating. each having a J2807 tow rating of 2000 pounds and equal L/HP...



What does common sense tell you?
Which manufacturer is more likely exaggerating and to what degree?

Tow ratings being equal, which is safer... A competent chassis with marginal power, or a marginal chassis with plenty of power?


Common sense dictates individual assessment based on reasonable criteria.

Ratings can still be used as a base point from which to start, but only if you can believe they meet the minimum requirements that they claim.

[Jon in AZ]

Wow! Talk about muddying the waters!

All my own vehicles make it clear the tow rating refers to total trailer weight, not just axle weight. First time I’ve heard anyone suggest otherwise. Did I miss a memo?

Yes, tongue weight factors into a number of different ratings. Yes, it’s part of both the tow rating and the payload. It’s also included in the GCWR, the GVWR, the RAWR. Yes, there is overlap among the various ratings.

The 3500/350# rating on my Pilot means the manufacturer limits total trailer weight to 3500#, of which no more than 350# can be carried on the hitch. Simple enough... however...

Those numbers, per J2807 and my owner’s manual, assume two people and no other payload. Additional payload- passengers or cargo- reduces the tow ratings. That’s why we don’t tow our 13’ Scamp with our 1500# rated CR-V, since we travel with four passengers and other gear in the vehicle. Very few people do tow with empty vehicles, hence the common-sense recommendation to leave some margin.

I think we can agree at least that manufacturer ratings are not necessarily a guarantee of satisfactory performance according to any personal, subjective standard.

[floyd]

So,it is OK to claim that manufacturers tow ratings are optimistic without examining the methodology, but it is not OK to examine the methodology?

Those are not points of obfuscation, they are legitimate questions of obvious flaws in J2807.

It is a fact that all vehicles meeting tow ratings of the same value are capable of meeting the standard.
It is ridiculous to assume, for instance, that engine power could determine tongue weight. Or that 10% is a legitimate maximum in every case, especially on single axle trailers.


I have not advocated exceeding the tow rating of any tow vehicle, but I have advocated examining the criteria and applying them to any prospective TV. That's just common sense.


Just as tongue weight capability on a TV should not be an arbitrary 10% of the tow rating but a real assessment of chassis strength, there should be no arbitrary20-25% discounting of tow rating without examining the particular prospective TV.


Stay within the ratings... but remember when choosing, that there is a wide margin of difference in actual capability among the vehicles with the same tow rating.


So meeting the ratings is not the only factor when considering a tow vehicle for a particular application.


As I have consistently advocated...
Educate yourself, then take responsibility for you decisions.

[Darral T.]

With the exception for the wider bed option, I feel 2010 was a good year for the Scamp. The "quality" or QC seemed better then. I didnt have ANY complaints on my Scamp- from a workmanship standpoint. I had a very minor water leak and that was on the kitchen sink trap. 1/4 turn of the screw and it stopped.

The complaints I DID have was Kent Eveland's fault for not keeping up to date like the SPONGE seal around the door? The old peanuts truck door lock, leaving the shower drain opening exposed underneath?

Nowadays, I DO like the wider bed but would miss the wide closet...maybe a hybrid? But there's been SO many complaints with the newer ones- I dunno concerning the quality. But again, we must remember, NO RV is perfect. I think Oliver would come very close! I passed by their place last night- beautiful FG RV's!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

Nowadays, I DO like the wider bed but would miss the wide closet...maybe a hybrid?

I’ve often thought it would make sense to build one side of the dinette longer but not the other. Keep the wide closet but take the narrower galley (or vice-versa). Sleep with your heads at the wide end.

No reason it couldn’t be done with existing cabinet modules. It would require a little finagling of the filler piece for the table, which you could do yourself. Convincing Scamp to build it might be more of a challenge...

[Anthonysherwood]

I see you have 10,000 and looking for a 13 foot scamp I would actually look at the Casita brand because it's a whole lot better quality unit and they have better options even on the 13 foot I've owned two of them over the last five years and I'm actually looking for my third it's all in what you want and what's your preferences are but I would look at Casita before I would look at Scamp

[John Lamendola]

I recently purchased a 1976 13ft Scamp for$4,000. It had beds front and back. No air conditioning, no heater but I got it at a terrific price!!! Go to scampinternet.com, they have all sizes and displays of internal layouts of all their trailers. We all have different wants and needs, see what you want and go shopping from there.

[Jimsweb]

Originally Posted by BobandPatt

My wife and I are looking to buy a used 13' Scamp. We have up to $10,000 to spend. I'm wondering what year Scamp is best. Are there some improvements that were made in the Scamp lineup for a certain year that we should look for?

hello, we have a 1979 scamp, which is actually called ACORN, because of patent rights that year 1979, they had to use a different name, but it's still a scamp. we added a fantastic roof vent, and upgraded to heavier torsion axle, with brakes. if interested you can call me for pictures and price, thanks, jim 815-482-2722

[Anthonysherwood]

I have a 2011 r-pod that sleep 6 it's a 173t model has the tent that comes out the rear end this unit in excellent shape microwave convection oven stove top furnace larger refrigerator pretty much all the bells and whistles for the r-pod series only thing I don't have is the original awning it books at around 10 5 to 11 thousand would like to have a trade for a casita number is 662-380-0655 ask for Tony I added to 30 pound LP bottles to the front replace the single 5 gallon bottle on the r-pod the water heater is propane and Electric the fridge is a three-way dematic and the AC is ice cold have any questions please contact me currently at Lake o the Pines in East Texas

[BobandPatt]

Are you sure it's "scampinternet". Page is "unavailable".

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Anthonysherwood

I see you have 10,000 and looking for a 13 foot scamp I would actually look at the Casita brand because it's a whole lot better quality unit and they have better options even on the 13 foot I've owned two of them over the last five years and I'm actually looking for my third it's all in what you want and what's your preferences are but I would look at Casita before I would look at Scamp

Maybe if you had looked at a Scamp you would not need three in 5 years.

Casita is a fine product, But I disagree with your characterization.
Fact is, Scamp is a fine product as well , at least on par with Casita.
Instead of needing 3 over the last 5 years...I have needed only 1 over the last 15 years

Scamp offers the Deluxe with custom elements, Casita has no option which compares, and certainly nothing better.
Casita no longer offers a 13 anyway, and used ones are rare.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Anthonysherwood

I see you have 10,000 and looking for a 13 foot scamp I would actually look at the Casita brand because it's a whole lot better quality unit and they have better options even on the 13 foot I've owned two of them over the last five years and I'm actually looking for my third it's all in what you want and what's your preferences are but I would look at Casita before I would look at Scamp

Beware the OP's 1500# tow rating. Some late model Casita Patriot 13D's (with bath) run well over 2000# loaded. In general they tend to run a bit heavier than similar Scamps.

Relative quality... well... that's a deep subject (and an old argument).

[Doctor Harold]

Originally Posted by John Lamendola

I recently purchased a 1976 13ft Scamp for$4,000. It had beds front and back. No air conditioning, no heater but I got it at a terrific price!!!

I got you beat. I bought my 1975 Scamp last year for $1,500 (don't hate me). Recent refer replacement, Fantastic Fan, recent carpet, about 1/2 square foot of floor needs repairing. Water tank and lines need replacing. Everything else is in pretty good shape. So, what's the best Scamp? The one with my name on the title.

Originally Posted by floyd

... I have not advocated exceeding the tow rating of any tow vehicle, but I have advocated examining the criteria and applying them to any prospective TV. That's just common sense.

Great advice, but I'm sure you'll agree, not everyone has common sense.

(Okay, one of the photos is a joke. and I sure hope that trailer behind the trike has brakes.)

[BobandPatt]

Thank you for the great advice. I learned a lot having read your replies. I'm looking into getting a different vehicle so that I can increase my towing capacity.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by BobandPatt

Thank you for the great advice. I learned a lot having read your replies. I'm looking into getting a different vehicle so that I can increase my towing capacity.

That will certainly open up more options for you. A vehicle with a 3500# rating will tow most molded trailers up to around 16’, and a 5000# rating adds 17’ers and even a few in the 18-19’ range. There are quite a few options in both towing ranges.

The thread “Towing Weights in the Real World” on the General Chat section has good data on what many makes and models really weigh once optioned and loaded with gear. Post #297 links to a convenient spreadsheet.

Do check the fine print in the owner’s manual for vehicles that seem like good candidates (most can be downloaded as a PDF, but make sure you’re looking at the same year you’re looking to buy). Some vehicles have unexpected caveats. Best example is the Subaru Outback, which has a generous 2700# tow rating but a limited 200# tongue weight limit, which excludes anything over 13’.

[BobandPatt]

I will be looking at the Subaru Ascent next week and will be sure to ask about tongue weight. I know that the towing capacity is 5,000 lbs, but truthfully haven't paid any attention to the tongue capacity. Thanks for the heads up!

[Jon in AZ]

I believe it’s 500#, like other vehicles in its class (Highlander, Pilot, Explorer...). Google “2019 Subaru Ascent owner’s manual” and you should turn up a PDF you can download and read. That’s a more reliable way to get accurate and complete towing information than asking a salesperson, some of whom are sadly uninformed.

Just read a FB post in the Scamp owner’s group that praised its mountain performance towing a 16’ Scamp.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by BobandPatt

I will be looking at the Subaru Ascent next week and will be sure to ask about tongue weight. I know that the towing capacity is 5,000 lbs, but truthfully haven't paid any attention to the tongue capacity. Thanks for the heads up!

If its J2807 approved, then it is an arbitrary 500#