Why not silicone? (Split from Forums 101)

[Bob Miller]

CLIP "[QUOTE=Byron Kinnaman;512400]The anti silicone sealants is based on nonsense and lack of knowledge."

Yep, it must be true, I have only worked on over 100 RV's for both myself and paying customers over the years, and have peeled off untold feet of leaky silicone sealant. But, then again, I only have an 18th grade education, so trying to figure out all this scientific stuff at the local Home Depot must just be beyond my comprehension.

Maybe someone that is more knowledgeable than I can specify exactly what silicone products do work with FGRV's and, of course, can be successfully used with minimal preparation and/or skills.

[Bob Miller]

BTW: Most manufacturers use application specific silicone sealants when building RV's. But only warrantee seams and windows against leakage for 1 year, in other words, 3-4 uses for the average new RV buyer. I wonder why?????

[Byron Kinnaman]

[QUOTE=Bob Miller;512404]CLIP "

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

The anti silicone sealants is based on nonsense and lack of knowledge."

Yep, it must be true, I have only worked on over 100 RV's for both myself and paying customers over the years, and have peeled off untold feet of leaky silicone sealant. But, then again, I only have an 18th grade education, so trying to figure out all this scientific stuff at the local Home Depot must just be beyond my comprehension.

Maybe someone that is more knowledgeable than I can specify exactly what silicone products do work with FGRV's and, of course, can be successfully used with minimal preparation and/or skills.

I would think that somebody with an 18th grade education could do the necessary research and inform everybody else.

[Jim Bennett]

You guys south of the 49th are slow learners. We only need 12 grades up here.

Silicone has become a generic term for any sealant that comes out of a tube, to many folks. There are lots of great sealants available, including silicone, but it is not the best choice for most applications in an RV. It can actually do a great job used properly, but if there is ever any maintenance work done on whatever it is used to mount, it is hellish to both remove the attached piece, as well as remove the silicone. Though, with the right cleaners, and lots and lots of elbow grease it can be removed.

Still, I would use butyl tape for almost any sealant needs on an RV.

[trainjunkie]

The problem with silicone is not silicone itself, but its misuse. Like any sealing material, it is suitable for some uses, and not others. The nucleus of the problem with it seems to start when inexperienced RV owners run down to the home center searching for something to solve a problem, generally a leak, and not being able to find any alternatives, buy a tube of "caulk" and glop it into the void/gap/hole (or whatever) that is the source of the leak. Even worse, many people think caulk is caulk, regardless of whether it's silicone or latex.

My vintage Bigfoot, which I bought from the original owner, was riddled with the stuff and in almost every case, I felt that its use was totally inappropriate. For instance, if a window is leaking, pull it out and reseal it properly with new butyl tape. Don't just glop silicone across the top of the window frame and hope for the best. It's not that hard to reseal a window, even for a total amateur.

One of the rubber perimeter seals on another window had shrunk considerably over the years but instead of fixing it, the PO filled the gap between the seal and frame with silicone. After cleaning off all the goop, I was able to gently heat the rubber and stretch it back into place pretty easily. All it took was a little heat and finesse and that 26-year old rubber seal is still there, right where it's supposed to be. No silicone needed, no gaps.

But this all takes thought and effort, and a lot of people are too impatient, and perhaps too ignorant, to make the effort to do things right. Silicone seems like a simple solution to a myriad of problems to the uninformed. So it stands to reason that so many RV owners are frustrated with the stuff since it can be a PITA to get rid of when correcting the problem.

I've eliminated almost all of it from my trailer but that didn't happen without considerable time and effort. So yeah, I think twice before using it. But hey, that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

[Bob Miller]

[QUOTE=Byron Kinnaman;512410]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

CLIP "

I would think that somebody with an 18th grade education could do the necessary research and inform everybody else.

So you are suggesting that I do research to recommend doing something that I already know, from extensive experience, doesn't work?????

If someone is supporting the idea, they need to do the supporting research. Again, there MAY be silicone sealer that works under SOME conditions, but I have seen so many failures & problems from using it that I stand behind recommending to not use it.

And, if one particular type does work, you can be sure that others will try to transfer that information to what doesn't work.

Butyl and RV Putty tape works for 10-20 years, all other stuff is used at one's own risk and peril.

[David Tilston]

Once again Bob, I agree with you. This is getting to be a habit.

[Ian G.]

I also agree Bob

One thing many do not know is that silicon has an expiry date. If it is opened or past the expiry date there is the possibility it may not cure. This results in a real mess

[C&G in FL]

You have my vote too, Bob. Your experience has been similar to mine.


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[Roger C H]

Wow! 28 posts on the original day!!

[Raz]

Butyl tape is so easy to use compared to anything out of a tube I wouldn't use anything else. That said........ Raz

[Bob Miller]

Yep, and I peeled lots of silicone sealant off of the then 8 year old 13' Scamp we had when removing the windows for resealing with butyl tape, one of which already had a leak. When I removed the roof vent to install a Fantastic fan there was ample evidence of additional silicone piled on to patch an earlier leak in that area.


Builders like silicone sealants because they are less labor intensive (code for "Cheaper") to use and will suffice for the average first ownership period, or at least past the warranty period which is usually about 1 year

[Thom Rowland]

IMO. If properly done, silicone will maintain a weather tight seal longer than butyl tape.

[Bob Miller]

I have seen any number of less than 5 year old RV's with leaky, "silicone sealed" windows and vents that had leaks. One would hope that the original builders could "properly" use the product.


When I pulled the windows out of my 42 year old Hunter the original RV Putty Tape was still in place as was evidenced by tell-tail paint transfer from the original build.
And, even to argue if that wasn't "Original", I bought it from the 2nd owner who had owned it for 20 years and he commented that he had never pulled the windows when I asked before buying it......

[PrettylilTrilly]

Has anyone tried using the as seen on tv product Flex Seal?


Lilly The Trilly - 1975 Trillium 1300

[Raz]

Originally Posted by PrettylilTrilly

Has anyone tried using the as seen on tv product Flex Seal?


Lilly The Trilly - 1975 Trillium 1300

A previous discussion. Worth a look. Raz

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Thom Rowland

IMO. If properly done, silicone will maintain a weather tight seal longer than butyl tape.

Then what conclusion should I draw from having had to remove both badly leaking fantastic fans sealed with silicon in 2013 from my less than one year old 2012 Scamp 19? Picked up at the factory in early June and both fans leaking by the following February. Yet the butyl tape I used when resealing both fans did not leak while I owned it and the new owner has not informed me that either one is leaking again. And, I have spoken with other FG owners who have had the same experience with silicone sealed structures.

[Thom Rowland]

Originally Posted by CPW

Then what conclusion should I draw from having had to remove both badly leaking fantastic fans sealed with silicon in 2013 from my less than one year old 2012 Scamp 19? Picked up at the factory in early June and both fans leaking by the following February. Yet the butyl tape I used when resealing both fans did not leak while I owned it and the new owner has not informed me that either one is leaking again. And, I have spoken with other FG owners who have had the same experience with silicone sealed structures.

The only conclusion there is, is whoever installed the fans at the Scamp factory did not do it properly otherwise they would not have started leaking so soon.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Thom Rowland

The only conclusion there is, is whoever installed the fans at the Scamp factory did not do it properly otherwise they would not have started leaking so soon.

I might share the same conclusion if I didn't know three other Scamp owners who have also had fans leak within three years of purchasing them. And when I called Scamp, I was told by the parts man that they use butyl tape when they install fans (they didn't on mine).

Approximately 25 years ago I purchased my first camper (a Coleman pop-up). It did not have a vent fan and I wanted one. The local RV dealer who sold it to me told me to install it with butyl tape. I asked if silicone caulk would be better and ended up on the receiving end of a lecture. Since then I have not found silicone to be reliable any time I have used it in spite of following all instructions for application. So I surely wish someone who believes silicone is superior to butyl tape for sealing RV vents and windows would inform me how it is done "properly" given that the "professionals" who constructed my most recent trailer apparently couldn't do it "properly."

Sorry, silicone advocates. Use all the silicone you want and I wish you good luck with it, but I prefer to use a product I know from experience will not leak for years.




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[Ian G.]

Originally Posted by Thom Rowland

IMO. If properly done, silicone will maintain a weather tight seal longer than butyl tape.

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

I have seen any number of less than 5 year old RV's with leaky, "silicone sealed" windows and vents that had leaks. One would hope that the original builders could "properly" use the product.

When I pulled the windows out of my 42 year old Hunter the original RV Putty Tape was still in place as was evidenced by tell-tail paint transfer from the original build.
And, even to argue if that wasn't "Original", I bought it from the 2nd owner who had owned it for 20 years and he commented that he had never pulled the windows when I asked before buying it......

I agree with Bob. a long life seal with silicon is the exception NOT the rule. When I removed the side windows from my 40 year old Boler the butyl tape was a sticky and stretchy as the new tape I installed.

I am a mechanic where "silicon gaskets" are common, they do work on perfectly machined surfaces that are perfectly clean and using new silicon, but if the surfaces are not perfect or clean or the silicon is a little outdated it will fail.