Your Wagonmaster heater may kill you - Page 4 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-30-2013, 10:53 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
I have a blower that was actually designed for the classic Trillium gravity furnace.
I don't have a Duotherm furnace in my Trillium. The Fromme may have been an aftermarket addition.
__________________

__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 11:04 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
A quick search says that the computer fan only draws about 1/4 or so of an 1156 bulb. Can someone provide better numbers for comparison?
__________________

__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 11:16 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
I took this picture for the storage drawer in the Trillium closet, you can catch a glimpse of the fan on the furnace and the inlet vent below the opening for the drawer.
Attachment 59804

Roy was adding the inlet vent one of the items that Panda Propane suggest be added? wondered as it was my understanding that no air inlet, only an outlet was one of the big issues with the Wagon Master.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 11:26 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
Not sure Carol. On my furnace there were two tubes going to the outside vent. One inside the other. I thought one was the inlet and the other the outlet. Much like my fridge vents on the RM-183B.

I found similar components for the ecofan here and here maybe someone can advise us how to make our own self powered fans for a lower cost. The TEG units look to be selling on ebay for less than $30. If that is the case it would be economical to have fans for both the furnace and fridge without the need for battery connections. Anybody up to the electrical engineering challenge? I'll attempt the test installs if someone wants to tell me what I need to do.

Thermalenterprises on ebay seems to be selling the TEG units for $19.99 and up. I only wish I knew what ones would be suitable to power the computer fans. You could attach a heat sink to the side of the furnace or use the fins on the back of the fridge to attach the TEG's to and power the fans.
__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 12:03 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Carol H's Avatar
 
Name: Carol
Trailer: 22' Airstream Formerly 16' Scamp
British Columbia
Posts: 11,731
Registry
Would indeed be cool if someone came up with a fan for the fridge that did not use power. Only time I need the fan is usually when I also need to use the Fantastic Fan a great deal as well.
Carol H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 01:18 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
I've asked the ebay seller if one of their TEG (Thermal Electric Generator) units would power a 12V computer fan. Waiting for a reply, I'll post when I get a response. Never mentioned using one with the furnace. I assume the temperature has a lot to do with it. I would also assume that the hotter the contact surface the more the units put out. That would be beneficial for both fridge and furnace applications.

Here is their response:
You will not get 12V output from one single TEG. With our 40mm TEG modules you can expect output as follows:
FOR MODEL TEG1-12710
0.5 to 2.0 VDC
and 0 to 1.2 Amps
To obtain maximum output you would need a temperature differential in the range of 100-120 deg C
FOR MODEL HT1-12710
0.5 to
2.5 VDC and 0 to 1.8 Amps
To obtain maximum output you would need a temperature differential in the range of 120-150 deg C
If your
application requires 12V output you will need to use multiple TEG modules wired together in series.

With the temperature differential required, I see these would only be good for the furnace. One would need a motor with lower power requirements as well. I see ecofan replacement motors on ebay for under $20.

I noticed that some people are using Stirling Engines to make wood stove fans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 09:47 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post

But I think I like Francesca's better. No power draw. How is it installed Francesca?
They just sit atop the heater, as illustrated in the video above. Since energy production depends on the difference in temps between foot and fins, best output is achieved by keeping the fins as cool as possible. On a freestanding stove one relies on free air from behind the stove for that. In my install, I put a heat shield between the foot and the top of the fan, and feed air to the fins from behind. Here's a picture of my old install. This heater's defunct and has since been replaced- don't have a picture of the new one.

I'd thought that contact between the foot and the heater was critical, but with the recent replacement that proved impossible. The fanfoot is now "suspended" in the heat stream and works just as well as before.

Francesca
Attached Thumbnails
Trillium Heater 001.jpg  
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:10 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
Name: Derek
Trailer: 1973 boler 13', Earlton On
Ontario
Posts: 396
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
Here is their response:
You will not get 12V output from one single TEG. With our 40mm TEG modules you can expect output as follows:
FOR MODEL TEG1-12710
0.5 to 2.0 VDC
and 0 to 1.2 Amps
To obtain maximum output you would need a temperature differential in the range of 100-120 deg C
FOR MODEL HT1-12710
0.5 to
2.5 VDC and 0 to 1.8 Amps
To obtain maximum output you would need a temperature differential in the range of 120-150 deg C
If your
application requires 12V output you will need to use multiple TEG modules wired together in series.
It seems to me that it should be possible to get a fan to run within these specs. Sayal lists a fan that runs at 5V .24A. Its small, but how much airflow are we trying to achieve? They actually have a handful of fans to choose from 5V. Sayal is the electronic wizard's dream store.

Sayal
__________________
glamourpets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 10:32 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
David Tilston's Avatar
 
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1977, 1978 (2), 1300 - 1977, 1973, and a 1972
Alberta
Posts: 5,317
Registry
Francesca, It looks like you also don't have a Duo-Therm furnace, but in the registry images for your trailer, it looks like a Duo-Therm exhaust. ???
__________________
David Tilston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Francesca Knowles's Avatar
 
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,543
Registry
My experience with the Duotherm was that while it was O.K. for three-season camping (which is what our trailers are really designed for), it wasn't up to winter camping demands. Too much heat wasted for the amount of propane consumed over sixteen hour heating cycles. Randy Bishop wanted an original heater for a heaterless "herd member", so I gave it to him and use a catalytic heater now.

The outside vent itself is still in use for air supply to the interior/ heater.

Francesca
__________________
.................................
Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
Tow Limit Calculator: Click here
Francesca Knowles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 12:19 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Name: Darwin
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin Maring
Any combustion heater will kill you that is why you should have a Carbon Monoxide detector in the camper. I have 2 just in case one fails - Reason - You don't wake up dead because dead is dead.
__________________
Darwin Maring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2013, 12:20 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
David Tilston's Avatar
 
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1977, 1978 (2), 1300 - 1977, 1973, and a 1972
Alberta
Posts: 5,317
Registry
I agree, the Duo Therm is a bit low on heat. I am hoping that the fan unit will help with heat output.
__________________
David Tilston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 08:14 PM   #55
Senior Member
 
Name: Derek
Trailer: 1973 boler 13', Earlton On
Ontario
Posts: 396
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D. View Post
It seems to me about two years ago (or maybe longer, I have sometimers disease) everyone that was a dedicated boondocker was really wanting one of these furnaces because they're gravity fed and require no power to heat the trailer. Is that right? Seems to me checking out a furnace, no matter WHAT brand is a maintenance issue and if things are going bad, they need to be fixed or replaced. So, I don't know why this furance would be any worse than any other. YMMV
These furnaces seem to get scooped up pretty fast, even now. It appears that they are still desirable. I'm surprised by the amount of money people are getting for them too. These appear to still be "hot items."
__________________
glamourpets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Name: Roy
Trailer: 1972 boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Ontario
Posts: 4,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Roy was adding the inlet vent one of the items that Panda Propane suggest be added? wondered as it was my understanding that no air inlet, only an outlet was one of the big issues with the Wagon Master.
Carol,

I just stumbled across a picture here of the inside of the component I had to replace. Looking for Furnace side vent The picture shows the part from the inside.



From looking at the residue patterns on my vent from the outside I can see that the inner ring or pipe is the exhaust vent and the outer ring is for the inlet.

So you have fresh air for the feeding the furnace from outside. A leak in the exhaust pipe would be drawn back into the furnace. You would need a hole in both for the exhaust to get into the cabin.

A couple more shots of how the inlet and outlet can be seen in Con's post back in 2006.
Boler Mods.
__________________

__________________
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas Valve for Wagonmaster furnace J Martin Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 4 05-17-2016 06:13 PM
Wagonmaster 6000B furnace Rick G Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 4 01-17-2012 10:19 AM
Wagonmaster 6000B heater problem Dave Leonard Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 0 01-02-2012 10:17 AM
RV tech says Wagonmaster the best! Peggy Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 9 07-07-2007 10:08 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.