3 way fridge question

[Harry Young]

Raya,

The answer is Yes and No,

I have a source where any custom door is made for me (louver machines are very expensive) but you get a conventional door like what you have, I think?

I guess the best approach would be to lay out the 24 dollars for the molded plastic one, then go to a sheet metal shop or send it to the custom cargo door maker I used and say can you get close to this stressing the cup feature in the Dometic plastic door? Or call Dometic and see if they source you to a party who can.

I have done this with ancient wheel well covers and some heater covers with success, the people in these trades always surprise me with what they can do.

While I have had sheet metal as part of my business I am in the stone age when it comes to louvers.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

Harry,

Since it sounds like you've sourced quite a few refrigerator vents, I wonder if you know if it is possible to get metal ones? I went to look at the eBay ones you linked to, and I see that they are genuine Dometic, but I'm a bit hesitant to replace metal vents (that are still in good shape after 35 years) with plastic ones.

Now these may be a better plastic - and I see they can be painted - but in general I've been disappointed with RV plastic parts (such as the electrical cord access door that is completely degraded).

I'd like to get the new style vent for efficiency, but I'm going to try to find metal ones. If you know of a source, great. And/or if I find one, I'll post it here.

Raya

[Harry Young]

Raya,

I understand the disappointment in the plastic parts, the new parts coming out of China are beginning to be blended plastics, they have their issues but the different plastics in the recipe lend positive qualities now to the product. I would paint the vent with a U.V. coating to toughen it up to the sun here, the cold shatter issue there is no defense against in really cold climates. The design I would like to see these guys make is make a flexible silicon one, it takes the sun, the heat and the cold, bump it there are no dents or cracks in the cold.

Harry

Harry,

Since it sounds like you've sourced quite a few refrigerator vents, I wonder if you know if it is possible to get metal ones? I went to look at the eBay ones you linked to, and I see that they are genuine Dometic, but I'm a bit hesitant to replace metal vents (that are still in good shape after 35 years) with plastic ones.

Now these may be a better plastic - and I see they can be painted - but in general I've been disappointed with RV plastic parts (such as the electrical cord access door that is completely degraded).

I'd like to get the new style vent for efficiency, but I'm going to try to find metal ones. If you know of a source, great. And/or if I find one, I'll post it here.

Raya

[Robert Johans]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...;category=50069

Raya,

I buy at eBay often, the lower door in this style opens, the top in this style stays closed when bought as the set...What I do is I use two lower doors so [b]BOTH open.

I like to be able to clean the upper compartment without disassembling the trailer!

Also I can service the small fan in mine at the top.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

Harry,

Are you suggesting to use this one vent door you've spec'd for both top and bottom? I can't identify any locking/closure hardware in the photos shown on the eBay link. What holds it closed?

[Harry Young]

Robert,

Two locking screws on the side release the door.

Be advised these doors come in different sizes and latching options.

(example of different sizes)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-RV-DOME...COVER-DOOR_W0QQ

Also these come in different latch configurations.

Some of the big electronic RV box stores like PPL RV sell variations, these are all ok as long as the venting is in the inward style louver, Dometic can sell doors too.

(I was showing a single example of the correct side vent [b]louver construction for side saddle refrigerator installs where top venting is not possible.)

I recommend both vents be the type that can easily pop opened for servicing top and bottom sections of the install.

I did not mean the one example I featured was the only way to go, or the size you need, as you see from the link above they come in different sizes.

I was trying to get F.B.R.V. members to note that Dometic really did make a move forward in side saddle venting with respect to exit hot air that older trailers should think over.

I like the rain proofing of the old design better, but its no good if the refrigerator will not work well?

If I were back in Washington State or Alaska again I would put a drip cap over my newer Dometic doors if I were stuck side saddle regarding the refrigeration of my trailer.

Look around at the choices, if you have any questions feel free to P.M. me.

Thanks for a great thread.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

Harry,

Are you suggesting to use this one vent door you've spec'd for both top and bottom? I can't identify any locking/closure hardware in the photos shown on the eBay link. What holds it closed?

[Harry Young]

To All,

On the subject of the Newer Dometic doors in this thread...

I must also in all fairness state that snow will get in them, driving rain is an issue too...

To still use the better door for warm weather operations of a Dometic refrigerator I have had to deal with this issue.

I have installed pop snaps onto the trailer wall and made in the past a vinyl storage cover to snap on for long term stowage.

I have seem pre-made travel covers, but for the life of me I cannot find them now.

You might need to give thought to this issue ahead of time, such as a long wet nasty drive ect.

As a service person I have seen water damage in the rear compartment because of this door designs very open features.

Likewise I have ALSO witnessed the very much improved operation of the refrigeration in side saddle installed refrigeration.

I recommend these doors for that delema...I prefer where possible the old doors and top venting.

This seems the devil one must pay to get the benefits for warm weather operation.

Consideration and planning should mitigate the drawbacks of this door design once its understood.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

[Robert Johans]

Robert,

Two locking screws on the side release the door.

Be advised these doors come in different sizes and latching options.

(example of different sizes)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-RV-DOME...COVER-DOOR_W0QQ

Also these come in different latch configurations.

Some of the big electronic RV box stores like PPL RV sell variations, these are all ok as long as the venting is in the inward style louver, Dometic can sell doors too.

(I was showing a single example of the correct side vent [b]louver construction for side saddle refrigerator installs where top venting is not possible.)

I recommend both vents be the type that can easily pop opened for servicing top and bottom sections of the install.

I did not mean the one example I featured was the only way to go, or the size you need, as you see from the link above they come in different sizes.

I was trying to get F.B.R.V. members to note that Dometic really did make a move forward in side saddle venting with respect to exit hot air that older trailers should think over.

I like the rain proofing of the old design better, but its no good if the refrigerator will not work well?

If I were back in Washington State or Alaska again I would put a drip cap over my newer Dometic doors if I were stuck side saddle regarding the refrigeration of my trailer.

Look around at the choices, if you have any questions feel free to P.M. me.

Thanks for a great thread.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

Harry,
Sorry to sound lame, but "side saddle refrigerator" is a new term to me. What is that? And do I have it?

[Raya]

I'm guessing Harry is using "side saddle" to refer to a refrigerator/camper that uses side venting instead of the more effective top (roof) vent.

Actually, looking at the louver design of the newer side vents, I'm thinking it might just be better to go to a top vent. If the flue is tightly joined, the only place any water would go is down the pipe (to one specific area at the bottom), and it might be easier to cap than a "huge" side vent.

It looks like some of the Compact family of trailers use a roof vent. I also see them at Vintage Trailer Supply for Airstreams. If anyone reading this thread has used one I'd be interested to hear about it.

Raya

[Robert Johans]

To All,

On the subject of the Newer Dometic doors in this thread...

I must also in all fairness state that snow will get in them, driving rain is an issue too...

To [b]still use the [b]better door for warm weather operations of a Dometic refrigerator I have had to deal with this issue.

I have installed pop snaps onto the trailer wall and made in the past a vinyl storage cover to snap on for long term stowage.

I have seem pre-made travel covers, but for the life of me I cannot find them now.

You might need to give thought to this issue ahead of time, such as a long wet nasty drive ect.

As a service person I have seen water damage in the rear compartment because of this door designs very open features.

[b]Likewise I have ALSO witnessed the very much improved operation of the refrigeration in side saddle installed refrigeration.

I recommend these doors for that delema...[b]I prefer where possible the old doors and[b] top venting.

This seems the devil one must pay to get the benefits for warm weather operation.

Consideration and planning should mitigate the drawbacks of this door design once its understood.

Happy Camping, Safe Trails.

Harry

Whew! My head is spinning... Harry, can you say, by looking at the set-up I now have, that you recommend replacing the vents (as shown) with those you've referred us to at eBay?

[Robert Johans]

I'm guessing Harry is using "side saddle" to refer to a refrigerator/camper that uses side venting instead of the more effective top (roof) vent.

Actually, looking at the louver design of the newer side vents, I'm thinking it might just be better to go to a top vent. If the flue is tightly joined, the only place any water would go is down the pipe (to one specific area at the bottom), and it might be easier to cap than a "huge" side vent.

It looks like some of the Compact family of trailers use a roof vent. I also see them at Vintage Trailer Supply for Airstreams. If anyone reading this thread has used one I'd be interested to hear about it.

Raya

Sheesh! You wouldn't think a little 1.9 cuin fridge would create such a, ahem, heated discussion.

As it turns out, I also own a '65 Airstream Globetrotter that I'm restoring, and the fridge top-vented "flue" is as wide as the fridge. Ugly, too. I really don't want to think about adding something so "imposing" into my little Scamp just to accommodate a top vent...

There's got to be an efficient way to make the side venting work appropriately. Dontcha think?

[Raya]

Oh yes, I think side venting can be made to work, as evidenced by Roy in TO's success (similar methods to Harry's).

It's just that you're always trying to "force" the fridge to vent, when a vertical chimney does it with comparative ease. With the new-style -- and clearly more effective -- vents being much less of a "leak resistant" design, well, it made me re-consider roof venting. Not that I'm saying I'll change over for sure; just thinking about it.

The Compact family has a relatively small, tidy-looking rounded vent. Or, I wonder about an openable/closable mushroom ventilator like you'd use on a boat. Hmm, for that matter, what about a solar powered Nicro vent on the roof? They are actually made to be watertight, can be removed and replaced by a screw in deck plate for extreme storms, move a fair bit of air, and are "water proof"* One of those hooked up to a chimney might be a good system.





http://www.marinco.com/product/4-daynight-...less-steel-vent

(You can remove the vent and replace it with a threaded, completely watertight cover.)

With one of these up top, I wonder if one could put the air intake vent under the floor, and do away with the huge, somewhat unsightly, vents from the side altogether?

Raya

*I put "water proof" in quotes because while they are basically waterproof under most sailing conditions (and sailing can force water into granite, I swear), I wouldn't take one offshore where it would be constantly submerged though and for boats I've always been a wee bit skeptical of them (because there is a sturdier solution that would be impractical for campers). But for the roof of a camper.... Hmmm, I'm going to think about this.

[Robert Johans]

Oh yes, I think side venting can be made to work, as evidenced by Roy in TO's success (similar methods to Harry's).

It's just that you're always trying to "force" the fridge to vent, when a vertical chimney does it with comparative ease. With the new-style -- and clearly more effective -- vents being much less of a "leak resistant" design, well, it made me re-consider roof venting. Not that I'm saying I'll change over for sure; just thinking about it.

The Compact family has a relatively small, tidy-looking rounded vent. Or, I wonder about an openable/closable mushroom ventilator like you'd use on a boat. Hmm, for that matter, what about a solar powered Nicro vent on the roof? They are actually made to be watertight, can be removed and replaced by a screw in deck plate for extreme storms, move a fair bit of air, and are "water proof"* One of those hooked up to a chimney might be a good system.


Attachment 24435


http://www.marinco.com/product/4-daynight-...less-steel-vent

(You can remove the vent and replace it with a threaded, completely watertight cover.)

With one of these up top, I wonder if one could put the air intake vent under the floor, and do away with the huge, somewhat unsightly, vents from the side altogether?

Raya

*I put "water proof" in quotes because while they are basically waterproof under most sailing conditions (and sailing can force water into granite, I swear), I wouldn't take one offshore where it would be constantly submerged though and for boats I've always been a wee bit skeptical of them (because there is a sturdier solution that would be impractical for campers). But for the roof of a camper.... Hmmm, I'm going to think about this.

Interesting concept.

So... you're saying an intake portal in the floor behind the fridge—then, what, some kind of collector/funnel above the fridge's cooling fins connected to a 4" vertical "chimney" passing through the countertop to this exhaust portal? Hmmmm... I love the idea of no side vents (an access door would still be necessary tho) but not too keen on the chimney running up the wall inside. Definitely a cool looking vent cover!

[Raya]

Hi Robert

Ah, right, one would still need an access panel for the "guts." I was on my way to an appointment, so typed that last one in a bit of a rush.

Reflecting on it a bit more, my current thought is about leaving the bottom panel as is (and I think with a better chimney, and perhaps a floor vent, one could then keep the older, less efficient-but-better-water-shedding design), and possibly going to a roof vent/chimney.

It would probably require a tube leading up to the roof - perhaps a 3" plastic conduit could go up along the side of the kitchen, on the forward side. Then maybe it could even contribute to some additional support on that end (since there is only support on the rear end as it is, via the "wrought iron" bracket). That would be a somewhat out of the way place, and perhaps it could be turned into an asset, with hooks or something for a purpose.

I'm just noodling it around right now, and doing it "aloud" since we have this thread going. I just think an actual vertical "chimney" would be so much more efficient than side vents in the way of creating a natural draft, and one might hardly even need the fan (although the solar fans just run along by themselves, with the mini-panel and batteries built in - you can manually shut the fan off on some models, as well).

I'll have to think it over some more. I'm not using the propane fridge at the moment, so I have time to ruminate.

Raya

[MikeCM]

Gee and here I was asking a simple yes or no question. If I wait a bit more I expect that collectively you will design a custom vent solution, that will not require me to cut two large hole in my Burro. Please keep it up I am fascinated by this thread.

Thanks Mike

[Raya]

Well then.... "No"

[MikeCM]

As my mother always told me; be careful what you ask for, you might just get it. I deserved that. Thanks Raya.

[Harry Young]

Robert,

I am sorry not to put a definition at least once in the text to the side saddle reference.

Raya is correct, I am referring to side mounted venting, its just local slang referring to that vent configuration, thanks for bringing my over sight it to my attention.

I was afraid of information overload when I wrote the last post, I see I am guilty as charged, you are looking for the one best option for you and I am trying to give you all the info to be fair to the technology available.

I need to be on the same page as you.

The truth is all solutions have an up side and a down side, any decision you makeis uniquely yours, you know the budget and the effort your willing to go through.

In my business its a well known tried and true management tool to give the customer two choices, one you do not want him to do and one you want him to do, never take more than 30 seconds to explain the problem. If you do you will loose the sale 90% of the time.

To do more than 2 choices is often a disservice to the customer, they are in front of you for help because they do not understand the issues with the service needed often... There are exceptions of course...This is just an understanding within most the service trades that for the most part works.

On FBRV I tend to spit it all out, I realize these posts are read, archived and may be read again by people that have perhaps generally similar issues, but different specific problems in that topic...So I am trying to spit it all out all at once...I feel I am trying to cover to much in one topic confusing the subject...

These questions may get asked again from another angle again with a different take on it, my anwer can change then to address the other points related to them I need to trust that staying more targeted on the topic at hand.

In the last post...I was just broadcasting a issue concerning the Dometic access doors to be fair and thorough...

While the Dometic doors are great at getting the heat out and are the required recommended door for the Dometic brand...They do have the annoyance of being less capable of keeping water out in a heavy driving rain...I did not want to recommend a door without also stating the other issues the door may have.

We all learn here...Myself I love the machines, they are vastly less complicated to me than communication with people...But I will learn.

O.k. the issue with your refrigerator was a question about the fans, I think we got that one down, if not please ask the question you need the answer too...

On your Scamp vent, in my area this has been relatively effective up to about 80 degrees, True Scamp uses larger vents than the Burros I have worked on which was pretty bad...but then Burros have really varied.

While Scamp is consistent in their equipment scheme I still have iss

[Raya]

Harry,

Speaking for myself, I'm thrilled that you have posted all the information, and the reasoning behind it. I'd much rather make a decision whilst understanding the concepts. Then I can assess the issue, the trade-offs, and potential work involved with a full "road map" and not just a peephole view of one or two streets.

So I hope you keep on keeping on, and don't treat us with kid gloves on the details

Raya

[Robert Johans]

Robert,

I am sorry not to put a definition at least once in the text to the side saddle reference.

Raya is correct, I am referring to side mounted venting, its just local slang referring to that vent configuration, thanks for bringing my over sight it to my attention.

I was afraid of information overload when I wrote the last post, I see I am guilty as charged, you are looking for the one best option for you and I am trying to give you all the info to be fair to the technology available.

I need to be on the same page as you.

The truth is all solutions have an up side and a down side, any decision you makeis uniquely yours, you know the budget and the effort your willing to go through.

In my business its a well known tried and true management tool to give the customer two choices, one you [b]do not want him to do and one you want him to [b]do, never take more than 30 seconds to explain the problem. If you do you will loose the sale 90% of the time.

To do more than 2 choices is often a disservice to the customer, they are in front of you for help because they do not understand the issues with the service needed often... There are exceptions of course...This is just an understanding within most the service trades that for the most part works.

On FBRV I tend to spit it [b]all out, I realize these posts are read, archived and may be read again by people that have perhaps generally similar issues, but different specific problems in that topic...So I am trying to spit it all out all at once...I feel I am trying to cover to much in one topic confusing the subject...

These questions may get asked again from another angle again with a different take on it, my anwer can change then to address the other points related to them I need to trust that staying more targeted on the topic at hand.

In the last post...I was just broadcasting a issue concerning the Dometic access doors to be fair and thorough...

While the Dometic doors are great at getting the heat out and are t[b]he required recommended door for the Dometic brand...They do have the annoyance of being less capable of keeping water out in a heavy driving rain...[b]I did not want to recommend a door without also stating the other issues the door may have.

We all learn here...Myself I love the machines, they are vastly less complicated to me than communication with people...But I will learn.

O.k. the issue with your refrigerator was a question about the fans, I think we got that one down, if not please ask the question you need the answer too...

On your Scamp vent, in my area this has been relatively effective up to about 80 degrees, True Scamp uses larger vents than the Burros I have worked on which was pretty bad...but then Burros have really varied.

While Scamp is consistent in their equipment scheme I still have iss

Harry,

It appears from the above that you were unable to finish your thought... Everything okay? Though, like Raya, I'm interested in learning all of the details, I'd still like your opinion of the specific set-up I now have on my Scamp. Seein' as I'm probably fairly committed to what I've got... If you don't like what you see, I'd appreciate your opinion on an affordable, reasonable option. Thanks.

[Raya]

Hi Robert,

I think Harry mentioned that he was having some surgery today. Hopefully his un-finished post wasn't indicative of a problem, but I would guess it might be a few days until he gets back.

From what I understand of his postings, including his opinion of your system, he was saying that he would change things in this order:

1) Make sure both your fans are mounted at the top, and are both set to exhaust air (i.e. to push air out, not to suck it in).

2) Change your upper vent to the new style, since the old style is somewhat backwards for letting heat out (keeping in mind that the new ones are less good at keeping water out, so you might want a cover for the road or to make the area where any water would fall onto somewhat water resistant).

3) A distant third, compared to the first two, and more optional (less gain for doing it), would be to put a new style vent in place of the bottom vent.

Now, when Harry gets back, we can see if I've put any words into his mouth, but I'm pretty sure I understood these to be his recommendations for your (and really any typical) Scamp set-up.

Here's rooting for a good recovery, Harry. We miss you already

Raya

[Robert Johans]

Hi Robert,

I think Harry mentioned that he was having some surgery today. Hopefully his un-finished post wasn't indicative of a problem, but I would guess it might be a few days until he gets back.

From what I understand of his postings, including his opinion of your system, he was saying that he would change things in this order:

1) Make sure both your fans are mounted at the top, and are both set to exhaust air (i.e. to push air out, not to suck it in).

2) Change your upper vent to the new style, since the old style is somewhat backwards for letting heat out (keeping in mind that the new ones are less good at keeping water out, so you might want a cover for the road or to make the area where any water would fall onto somewhat water resistant).

3) A distant third, compared to the first two, and more optional (less gain for doing it), would be to put a new style vent in place of the bottom vent.

Now, when Harry gets back, we can see if I've put any words into his mouth, but I'm pretty sure I understood these to be his recommendations for your (and really any typical) Scamp set-up.

Here's rooting for a good recovery, Harry. We miss you already

Raya

Thanks, Raya.
I, too, want to extend my best wishes to Harry as he recovers from surgery. My silly fridge questions can certainly wait until he is back on his feet, and on top of his game. Good luck, Harry!