Advanced Scamp Electrical Question - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-08-2016, 03:08 PM   #15
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captleemo View Post
Dielectric means it won't conduct electricity but won't hinder conductivity so it actually is not an insulator because if it was it would hider conductivity.
Dielectric
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A dielectric material (dielectric for short) is an electrical insulator that can be polarized by an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material as they do in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization.
__________________

__________________
Raz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 03:09 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Name: Darwin
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin Maring
The dielectric condrumum. It is an insulator. The contacts of the bulb make contact with the hot and return contact in the receptacle and the dielectric insulation grease surrounds everything to keep water and air out. At some auto parts stores it comes with bulbs and trailer connectors.
__________________

__________________
Darwin Maring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 03:34 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,309
Registry
Dielectric grease has been discussed several times here. The more important discussion should be understanding connector technology. There's something called a "gas tight seal" associated with connectors. When the connectors are put together there's enough friction that a few molecules of the mating surfaces is displaced, this removes contamination and allows the connector to function. When dielectric grease is applied to the connector the grease is just another contaminate that is removed where the connection happens. The rest of grease keeps moisture out the connector. Since dielectric grease is an insulator it can be used in mulitcircuit connectors and not provide a connection between the circuits.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 03:42 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Name: None
Trailer: None
None
Posts: 2,734
The substance used when terminating or making electrical connections is Pentrox .It is required when terminating aluminum wires because aluminum oxidation does not conduct .Pentrox is a conductive grease and metal paste . Ideal makes small plastic squeeze bottles of Pentrox. We also used Pentrox on the screw threads of intermediate and rigid conduit to prevent galling and insure conductivity. Pentrox is also used on the screw threads of lamps and lamp holders used in damp /wet locations .Pentrox is not a dielectric grease and is UL listed .
__________________
steve dunham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 05:03 PM   #19
Raz
Senior Member
 
Raz's Avatar
 
Name: Raz
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Vermont
Posts: 4,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin Maring View Post
The dielectric condrumum. It is an insulator. The contacts of the bulb make contact with the hot and return contact in the receptacle and the dielectric insulation grease surrounds everything to keep water and air out. At some auto parts stores it comes with bulbs and trailer connectors.
Byron's suggestion is that the pressure of the contacts will push the grease out of the way and allow continuity. My thought is that you are likely to have a high resistance contact at best. And if the grease has been removed by the pressure of the contacts then what is it protecting. Perhaps the auto bulb folks intend it to be put on the glass to form a seal between the bulb and the socket. But I'm sure there's no instructions so we can only guess. take care, Raz
__________________
Raz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 05:08 PM   #20
Member
 
Name: Duane
Trailer: 1978 Burro
Michigan
Posts: 82
electrical troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
I call this an advanced question because this one really has me stumped and will likely require your very best thinking cap also if you choose to try your skill at solving the puzzle. Only read further if you like a challenge.

The outside front light (over the propane tank and battery) on my Sept 2015 vintage Scamp was working fine last fall. On the off season, I installed a TriMetric meter and companion solar charger with a connection to a receptacle. All of this was put in the compartment under the front sofa (door side). While load testing the solar charger by turning on every 12 volt item at once (and while off shore power), I discovered that the front outside light would not come on.

It is certainly possible that I pulled a connector loose or something while installing the meter and solar wiring, so I started with standard troubleshooting steps.

Removed bulb and noticed that since Scamp uses such cheap light fixtures the bulb socket was a little corroded after only six months of being outdoors. Cleaned it all up well, still no light.

Checked the bulb visually and for continuity. It checked out as good.

Substituted a LED bulb and there was light. Operation was normal with the LED bulb.

Tried another incandescent bulb with same results as the first bulb, no light.

Hooked up both incandescent bulbs to a 12 volt supply with alligator clips and they both lit up fine. The bulbs are good.

I can actually see the center pin make contact when I put the bulbs in. Everything sure seems to be making good contact.

Measured the voltage at the blub socket (with the switch on) and read 12.7 VDC at the center positive contact and the part of the socket where the bulb base and tab make contact.

Scratched head since that seemed to be the next appropriate step.

At this point in my story I might offer kudos to those of you who 1: noticed that the LED bulb with low current draw worked fine but the higher amperage incandescent did not, and then, 2: concluded that maybe there is a bad connection that is allowing enough power to get the 12.7 VDC reading but is not good enough to pass the amount of current which the incandescent needs. If that were the case I would expect the voltage to drop under the heavier load, so next stepů

I removed the wire nut off the positive wires, made sure they were well twisted together, and hooked up the multimeter positive lead to the positive wires. With the incandescent bulb in and the switch on, I read the voltage with the negative meter lead on the outside of the socket, and then on the base of the bulb. Voltage was constant when the switch was on - there was no voltage drop. At this point there was only one more test I could think of and it was just a little risky.

With extreme care as to not cause a short, I removed both wire nuts in the light fixture to expose the positive and negative feed wires and touched them to the incandescent bulb, which I almost dropped when there was a small spark and the bulb lit up! So we know the wiring to the fixture is OK.

That means the fixture seems to be the issue. It worked fine with an incandescent bulb a few months ago but no longer does. It does work with LED bulbs however which are equivalent with the same base. Explain that!
Gordon, I have to commend you on your job troubleshooting your electrical problem!

I have seen time and time again someone who checks for voltage with a meter and thinks they have "voltage" there. Well you proved beyond a doubt that you had a connection problem by lighting up an LED but not an incandescent lamp. A voltmeter would have also shown "voltage" was there too.

Trouble is testing something without applying a sufficient current drawing load can really fool a person.

A good friend of mine replaced a 275 dollar fuel pump in his brother's truck only to find out it was a connection problem in the wiring harness. Voltmeter "told" him there was 12 volts present. Couldn't take the pump back either.
__________________
DuaneQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 05:10 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 1,886
Well well well. this turned out to be an Advanced Scamp Electrical discussion after all!

But I just wanted my light to come on

Good news is that it looks like I get the needed replacement parts under warranty.
__________________
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 06:25 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 1,886
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuaneQ View Post
...
I have seen time and time again someone who checks for voltage with a meter and thinks they have "voltage" there. ...
According to Glen's favorite authority (Wiki ), voltage is "is the difference in electric potential energy"

The key word is potential! You might have the potential have light, heat or whatever but there is no guarantee from voltage alone.

Interestingly (to me at least), it seems I have a similar problem in my house wiring. The last two outlets on one circuit "shut down" when high current devices are used on them. For example, after using a 120 VAC jack hammer, even a radio will not work in the outlet. There is "residual" voltage around 50 VAC and it returns to "normal" after some time, only to fail when high current draw occurs again. The GFCIs and the circuit breaker have been ruled out as suspects. The concern is a high resistance point than can spell serious trouble so it needs to be fixed soon. In the mean time that circuit is not used.
__________________
gordon2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:35 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Name: Eddie
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Virginia
Posts: 1,556
Gordon
I may be wrong but I think you can replace the switch with the fixture installed. I would try that rather than R&R the fixture unless you find a much better quality light fixture. Seems like most trailer mfg. use these same fixtures. They are also prone to turn yellow with age, you may want paint your current fixture while messing with it. Replace the switch, drill a drain hole in the bottom and you should be good to go.
Eddie
__________________
Eddie Longest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 09:51 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Name: Lee
Trailer: Casita
Texas
Posts: 244
Registry
Gordon2, it sounds like you have a loose connection in your house wiring, possibly a loose neutral. Always fun chasing those down. I know you said that you sprayed your RV light switch with some contact cleaner but I would still give it a shot of WD-40. Thats always worked for me on a corroded connection. My garage door remote seems to quit working every once and awhile so I check the battery but it usually turns out to be the tiny little micro switch inside the remote. I give it a spritz of WD-40 and I'm back in business, every time. I live on the Gulf coast so the high humidity is probably what causes the problem.
__________________
Lee
Captleemo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 11:28 AM   #25
Member
 
Name: Duane
Trailer: 1978 Burro
Michigan
Posts: 82
voltage drop testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
Well well well. this turned out to be an Advanced Scamp Electrical discussion after all!

But I just wanted my light to come on

Good news is that it looks like I get the needed replacement parts under warranty.
Gordon, the best way to test for load problems is to measure the voltage at your load with it connected. This way you will be able to tell if you have a poor connection, too small gauge wire etc. Hope this helps.
__________________
DuaneQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 04:54 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Paul O.'s Avatar
 
Name: Paul
Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, Tacoma 4.0L 4door, SB
ex VT, now CO
Posts: 1,269
I came kind of late to this thread, but let me throw my mechanical engineering two cents in. The advantage of the dielectric grease should be that the mechanical parts of the switch will work better and possibly provide higher contact pressure, exactly where it matters. Being dielectric, it is not going to cause a short, or leakage in case of multi contact switches, which is actually not relevant here. Pretty much the same goes for WD40. I bet it is a pretty good dielectric as well.
__________________
Paul O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 05:06 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Paul O.'s Avatar
 
Name: Paul
Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, Tacoma 4.0L 4door, SB
ex VT, now CO
Posts: 1,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
I might be confused about the terminology but this is what I was referring to. Used it for years on all sorts of electrical contacts, such as the trailer to tug umbilical cord.
This is from the link you provided:
When the connection is tightened, the grease is displaced, leaving a layer of zinc and graphite filling in the surface imperfections of the interface.
  • Makes connections more reliable
  • Makes connections more weatherproof
  • Protects connections from corrosion
  • Reduces temperate rise
  • Low sulphur content
  • Non-reactive, no gassing in storage
  • Brushable over a wide temperature range
  • Sticks to wet joints
Both zinc and graphite are conductors, so I bet this is only suitable for a high power connection that is made once and left alone. Not a switch.
__________________
Paul O. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 05:37 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Name: Darwin
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,030
Send a message via Yahoo to Darwin Maring
Gordon2: I had that problem on a house circuit. It turned out that a hot wire was not tightened down and it would work until the wire got hot which caused it to move and the light would dim or shut off completely. Check the connections.
__________________

__________________
Darwin Maring is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electrical, scamp


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new 13' Scamp & Electrical question Unoman Electrical | Charging, Systems, Solar and Generators 11 01-24-2013 08:23 AM
Advanced Search Titles Only Broken JohnF Forum Admin, News & Announcements 4 10-15-2011 09:08 PM
13' Scamp basic electrical question Nick Glenney Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 3 04-05-2009 09:55 PM
Dumb Electrical Question Bob H Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 12-25-2006 06:10 PM
electrical question stan s. Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 08-10-2006 11:25 AM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.