Any Scamps 13 in Montreal area?

[Briantb]

you do not need plates - transit plates are good enough. Canada Customs will not seize the trailer.. enough said

[David Tighe]

It seems unlikely that Canada customs would actually seize it but will ask as plating is a provincial matter. However, Quebec has told me that I will have to leave it in the customs parking lot and go to get plates at the nearest licence office. I must inform US customs 3 days in advance of my intention to export it and I must have the necessary docs to support the RIV at Canadian customs. Then I pay taxes and go to get my plates

[Briantb]

the 72 hour notice to export only applies to motorised vehicles.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David Tighe

Thank you for all those replies. @Briantb: The Quebec tax people say that no inspection necessary if under 900kg but I have to leave it at the border and go and get plates at the nearest tax office.

David I have imported twice so I am a little concerned that whoever told you that there is "no inspection necessary if under 900kgs" has not given you accurate information regarding the actual import process. They may not require an inspection on a trailer under 900kgs in order to get it licenced but all imported cars and trailers must be inspected unless it is more than 15 years old.

All the accurate information you will need to import at trailer can be found at "Registrar of Imported Vehicles" also know as RIV.ca.

Regarding putting Canadian plates on a trailer that has not completed the full import process be warned thats a real no no. They can go a little silly on you at the border if you where to put Canadian plates on a trailer that has not yet completed the import process. You can and should obtain temporary permits to move it through the states you travel through (most trailer & car dealers/manufactures will obtain one for you on purchase or if buying used you can obtain them yourself).

Once at the border you will pay the necessary GST and provincial taxes (although in some cases this has not actually been charged until the you go to get to the actual registration). At the border you will also pay to have the trailer entered into the RIV program - currently $195 plus taxes in Quebec the total RIV fee is currently $224.20. They will fill out the paper work for this at the border for you. All vehicles (except buses) that are 15 years old or more from the date of manufacture, are exempt from the Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) program. If the trailer is less than 15 years old it must go through the RIV program and you will also need an official U.S. SOC label on the trailer or a letter from the manufacture containing the information normally found on the label such as VIN, make model, date of manufacture, gross vehicle weight ratings and axle weight ratings. If you buy a Scamp or a Casita both companies are well aware of this requirement for importing to Canada and will provide you with a letter for this that you need. Scamp was able to provide one for me using the VIN number of the used trailer I purchased even though I did not purchase it directly from them.

Note that when importing a car the documents must go to the border at least 72 hours prior to taking the car to the US side of the border - that rule does not apply to trailers - just drive up to the border with the trailer and necessary documents. With a car you pick up the stamped documents from the US side of the border and then take it and the car to the Canadian side to clear it the same as a trailer.

After you go through the border you will need to take the trailer some place and park it as it can not be registered or plated until you receive (normally in about 2 weeks) a letter confirming it has been entered into the RIV program which you need to take the trailer to be inspected. You will if you can get it in Quebec a temp permits to take it to inspection (this can be a problem in some provinces). Once the trailer goes through the RIV inspection (can be done at most Canadian Tires for a fee) where they look to see that you have all the necessary lights in the right position and that the lens comply with the DOT requirements & that you have a compliance letter from the manufacturer. In the case of Scamp and Casita they do use the same lens & put them in the right location etc so there should be no issues with passing the inspection. You can then take the forms you were sent and what the inspection facility gives you and the Bill of Sale in to get the trailer registered and insured in Canada and get plates for it. Until you get the forms showing its been inspected you can not register or plate the trailer in Canada. You will also eventually be sent a label showing its been legally imported that needs to go on the trailer.

Hope the above helps.

[Briantb]

the RIV process is mostly electronic now.. last year with our new Scamp we cleared the border at 130pm..by the time we drove 20 minutes home an email with the inspection form was waiting for us.. took the trailer to Canadian Tire for inspection.. we were inspected registered and plated by 4pm same day.. granted it may have been a slow day at RIV.. the official RIV sticker arrived in the mail within a week.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by RETIRED

Of course you will need plates when you pick it up. And don't you need plates for a trailer anywhere in USA? If you don't you can have a lot of trouble. Canadian customs will seize the trailer until you get plates and they want their 13% sales tax. Get the plates before you pick it up if that is possible or a temporary permit from DOT.

Actually Canadian Customs may/can seize the trailer if you put Canadian plates on it before it has been legally imported! Dont ask how I know that!!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Briantb

the RIV process is mostly electronic now.. last year with our new Scamp we cleared the border at 130pm..by the time we drove 20 minutes home an email with the inspection form was waiting for us.. took the trailer to Canadian Tire for inspection.. we were inspected registered and plated by 4pm same day.. granted it may have been a slow day at RIV.. the official RIV sticker arrived in the mail within a week.

Suspect it depends on the border crossing - took 8 days for my last import email to arrive from the Peace Arch crossing - which is a pretty busy crossing. But our local Canadian Tire would not except the email - they wanted the hard copy.... go figure ;-) - but the hard copy came in the mail a couple of days later.

[Briantb]

of course could avoid the whole process and buy ours already imported ;-)
Our 2012 Scamp 13 front washroom will be for sale next week when we get home from this trip.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Briantb

of course could avoid the whole process and buy ours already imported ;-)
Our 2012 Scamp 13 front washroom will be for sale next week when we get home from this trip.

Only a short drive from Quebec to Ontario!

[Briantb]

lol too bad we are in NW Ontario.. only six hours to Backus.. the build time for orders for new Scamps is July and for Casita May.

[Carol H]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
I know Escape Industries has sent enough trailers south of the border they absolutely know what's needed. I'd think Eveland's (Scamp) would have the same knowledge.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

A reasonable guess, but I wouldn't count on it. .

Can confirm that Scamp does indeed know what is needed. Took less than a 3 min. phone call to them to obtain the correct paper work needed from them.

[David Tighe]

@Briantb: thank you for your very useful step by step description. Re inspection I meant that of the Quebec licence bureau. The one at Canadian tyre I know about. The RIV bureau in To told me that US customs had to issue a permit to allow export, making no distinction between trailers and motorised vehicles. They could of course be wrong so I will double check with US.
Quebec said that I could go straight to a licence bureau to get plates and then go back to pick it up. You seem to say that permanent plates cannot be issued until I have totally cleared the RIV process, but I can get temporary plates in Québec. Is this so? You really seem to know more about it than the people at the licence bureau.
My research into state practises showed that Minnesota do not require plates but Michigan and NY do. None mention transit or temporary plates. Ontario says it has something but the website provide no details. I have written to them.

Let me have details on your Scamp 13 like price, equipment etc. If you decide to sell.So far I rather like the challenge of importing one. I imported an Eriba Puck from Switzerland to France some 12 years ago. A tour de force on which I have dined out ever since. If you would like a step-by-step account similar to yours I could write a book on it

[Carol H]

David, your best source of info is the Canadian Government web site RIV.ca. I can tell you that the first time I imported I got a lot of misinfo from here as well as from our local DVM. Best to call the Canadian Border crossing you will be using should you have any questions about what you really need to do to get the trailer across. But I can tell you from experience that I did do not need to send any paper work ahead or take a none motorized vehicle to the US customs prior to taking my trailer to Canadian customs. I did need to send paper work to US Customs and go there first at time of crossing when I imported a car though.

The RIV.ca site reads on the topic on non motorized vechiles the following:

"U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) require notification of all self-propelled vehicles being permanently exported from the United States. You must provide CBP with your vehicle title documents, registration and sales receipts."

The US Customs web page addresses the need to go to them for Motorized vehicles here.

Again if you have any doubts you can always call the US Border patrol where you will be crossing and have them confirm you dont need to take a trailer to them prior to taking it to Canada Customs.

There is a FAQ section as well as Province specific details.

The section regarding whats needed to register/licence an imported vehicle in Quebec is here. It does say in addition to other documents you need a "Vehicle Import Form" in order to register it. Unfortunately it doesn't say if it needs to be a completed form - ie cleared inspection etc.

under the FAQ secton of RAV.ca it reads in part:
"Is the Vehicle Import Form a valid temporary registration for the vehicle I have imported?
The provincial/territorial licensing authorities co-operate with CBSA by requiring proof that CBSA formalities have been complied with before issuing licenses for foreign vehicles imported into Canada. Persons required by the provincial /territorial licensing authority to license their foreign vehicle in Canada must present a properly completed Form 1, to the licensing authority. "

Dont know about Quebec but in BC the trailer had to have completed the RIV required inspection and the import form stamped confirming it been inspected and passed before they would register/licence the trailer. You *may* be able to get a temp licence to take it for its RIV inspection though if you can show its in the process of being imported by showing the RIV forms you obtained/paid for at the border. Again its best that you talk directly with the place you will be going to for the temp licence. But dont be to surprised if the party you talk to doesn't actually seem to know the actual regulations ;-) Best to get it from someplace where they have actually handled an import before.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Can confirm that Scamp does indeed know what is needed. Took less than a 3 min. phone call to them to obtain the correct paper work needed from them.

Good to know. Back in 2005 when we were shopping, I'm pretty sure both Scamp and Casita got the trailer to the border, then said "good luck"; Escape, in contrast, take sit across the border for the customer. It looks like Scamp has advanced.

I would not take the word of any company that they know what is needed for export, if they are not doing it themselves. It's like all those on-line retailers who say their charges include shipping, but have no clue about the extra charges the courier companies charge us after they take the product across the border.

[David Tighe]

I think thanks to you all I am now up to speed about importing formalities. My problem now is towing it without plates to the Canadian border at say Sault-Ste-Marie and then across Ontario and through a bit of Québec. Québec does not seem to issue plates until all documentation is completed and tells me I will have to leave it in the parking lot at the border (about 1500km from Québec!). Ontario seems to have a temporary plate system but not for non-residents. Minnesota (God bless them) do not seem to require plates for very light trailers. So now what?

Is it in fact illegal to tow an unplated trailer across a province or state one is not a resident of. Can one explain ones' predicament to the policeman and plead for mercy (it seems a faint hope)?. Or pay a fine per province or state? Under say 50$ would be a reasonable fine to pay if it ensures temporary iimmunity. Where does one find out the scale of fines?

What do any remaining readers think?

[RETIRED]

Carol H offers excellent info.

I found out from Scamp you pay sales tax at your home town where you register your Scamp. So I assume you do not pay any sales tax when you pick it up.

I will have same problem as you will about the temporary plates. I live in Toronto, Ontario. I will try and secure all the temporary plates need before I pick my Scamp up. I WILL SEE IF I can get a permanent plate from Ontario, if I get the VIN number and pay all the sales tax before I pick it up. This will make it legal for me to drive it through any state. I bet I cannot do this because I need a release from RIV and pay the RIV fees and get it inspected before I can get plates.

The only other choice is for me to get temporary plate from Ontario and see if that is ok to use in other states. If not get more plates say for MI and WI and MN. I plan to sneak it thru IN and IL if possible since I will be in those two states any a short time. I plan to drive it from factory to Chicago to Sarnia as that is best route and shortest way for me. (better roads/cheaper gas).

Your route might be better for me if I cannot tow thru the other states. Then I only have to deal with Ontario plates.

I travel with 10 imp gallons (45.5 liters) extra in gas cans because gas is cheap in the USA. I sent the CBSA E-Mail about the max amount of gas I can bring over and I carry this letter in my van. Make sure you fill up very close to the border and then again in Ontario just before you enter Quebec.

We could make a convoy of two Scamps entering Canada....hehe. But first I have some options of getting a Scamp in my garage due to bylaws. I might raise the garage door opening and 1/2 deflate the tires or use 8" golf cart wheels with no rubber to get it in. Have to see which way it will work out.

Just google "U.S. TRIP PERMITS" to get a list (some of them?) of states the require a temporary permit.

Good Luck

[David Tighe]

To my knowledge you pay both Canadian taxes at the border when you import it. In Québec they will only issue plates to a vehicle which has full RIV papers and has been inspected at Canadian Tyre (just lights and a few other things, not technical). I am sure if you managed to get temporary plates (which I cant) you could drive it anywhere. Police have enough to do without random checks of out-of-state trailers. Watch out about driving with 45 litres of petrol. I have a feeling it may be illegal

[Carol H]

In BC I only paid the GST at the border but the Provincial Tax when I registered it (after it had been through the RIV inspection).

If you talk to Scamp they should as a customer service be able to obtain the required Temp permits for you to get it through to the border. When I purchased my car down south the dealer purchased and had all the temp permits I needed ready for me. Scamp sells a lot of trailers so I would be surprised if they cant/will not do the same.

Unfortunately the problem of not being able to purchase a temp permit in many Canadian provinces until the trailer has actually been imported which includes having gone through the RIV inspection is a problem. I know it really worried me moving the trailer & the car from the border to my home with only a US Temp plate on it - was it covered or wasnt it? It was a pretty big grey area. . Got lots of different conflicting info on that front from the Insurance company and others. Fortunately I am not far from the border and the trailer still had valid plates on it which they left on for me and gratefully I had no incidents. One my neighbours imported a car recently and mentioned that they were able to obtain something from our provincial insurance to transit the car from the border to his home and then to the inspection so things may have changed on that front. Biggest problem is finding someone at the insurance company that actually understands the process and can give you correct information on how best to handle it.

[David Tighe]

In Québec it appears that both taxes are paid at the border. I would take a chance with any kind of temporary plate from Minnesota and trust the goodwill of police. Insurance does not seem to pose a problem if the vehicle does not have a plate but perhaps they have'nt understood the situation yet. Will recheck,

[RETIRED]

From what I so far read and understand HST and RIV registration is paid at border. You must of course have all your papers (bill of sale, title to vehicle and insurance). You can get I bet insurance locally to where you live provided you have a VIN before you pick up.. As for temporary plates I am not sure but I believe it goes state by state or province. Temporary plates cost cheap. So get a plate as soon as possible when entering another state if that is the case. You can always chance it at your own risk but I don't know the penalties if caught.

Personally it seems driving through Sault Ste. Marie might be the best option, only have to deal with MN and WI in the USA and the short drive through MI. I don't know if this is legal and could be tricky without permits. The other choice for me is to drive straight north into Canada, Ontario thru International Falls. Then I would only need a Ontario permit.

It is legal to take over the border 45.5 liters of gas. I have a letter from the CBSA about this. I will attach the letter but have removed all the ID's on the letter. They said 10 gallons. Of course this is Canada so it must be 10 imperial gallons=45.5 liters. I bet no one asked this before so they dusted off the books and found it to be in gallons. Of course you do not pay any taxes/duties because you must declare it in your personal allowance. I have done this many times.

If I only need one permit then I will drive around Chicago but if I had no permits other than from MN then I would get my GPS to avoid all toll roads so the authorities do not see I have no permit for their state if that is the case.