BIG Title transfer problem!

[Francesca Knowles]

"Check for Clear Title" would be an excellent addition to the site's Buyer's checklist at http://www.fiberglassrv.com/buy-sell.html
I'd suggest it be given position #1, since it so often results in these kinds of complications, especially for long distance buyers.
This would be the perfect thread to include as a case-in-point reference there.
Maybe you, Cyndi, would agree to write a "what on earth was I THINKING" type essay detailing the torturous process required to straighten out this kind of mess. If it CAN be straightened out, at least to your satisfaction.
I almost hate to ask, but nowhere in this thread do I see an indication that the title in question was signed by
the California person who is by the laws of every state STILL the legal owner of the trailer.
There are several references to the Oregonian's signature- did Mr. California sign it, too?
I sure hope so, because it means that as bad as they are, your troubles could be worse.

Francesca

[Roger C H]

We had a situation when we moved to WA from WI. Our boat trailer did not require registration in WI. WA issued a plate but wouldn't title the trailer for 3 years, presumbably that was if it was stolen, that fact would show up by that time.

I would say that man B did not have clear title and therefore could not sell the trailer. You, unfortunately, made his problem your problem by taking the trailer off his hands. Have you consulted a lawyer?

By the time you get this straightened out, you may have new Eggcamper money in it.

[Panoz77]

PA doesn't require a VIN inspection, however Ohio does. I bought my CT-13 from a gentleman in PA, the title had a VIN # however the CT-13 did not. It had an aluminum plate with a spot for a VIN # but it was blank, that is until Mr. Dremel came over and the VIN magically appeared on the plate. Headache over.

[jen b]

For out-of-state vehicles PA does want to see the VIN. I have a tags-n-titles place that will let me just submit a photo of the VIN, but a lot of places require an actual visual inspection, though not necessarily by a state trooper.

When I brought Rucio back from Minnesota, I only realized then that the vin stamped on the frame didn't match the one on the MN title. Whoops! I didn't suspect malfeasance or anything, but I phoned the minnesota motor vehicles department to find out what to do and apparently the trailer had come from a third state that didn't require titles, so Minnesota had generated a new VIN (randomly, apparently, for reasons I don't quite understand) with the new title.

The easiest way around it, I decided, was to obliterate the old VIN from the frame and rivet a plate onto it with the newer Minnesota-issued VIN stamped into it. I guess it's going to work; I'm still in the waiting-for-new-PA-paper-title window so no final confirmation yet.

[Francesca Knowles]

Cyndi's main problem is chain-of-possession, and it's almost impossible to fudge your way out of that situation.
BUT, as if that weren't enough...
If it's the trailer in this forum at http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...eam-43061.html "1984 16' Fiberstream" she might have your VIN problem, too.
According to another member who posted in that thread, the seller was upfront about both defects, and willing to go to the Oregon DMV with the buyer to solve them.
And probably still is, except that Cyndi hauled it (unlicensed and uninsured) 3000 miles away from the nearest Oregon DMV office.
Quickest solution:
Cyndi must buy a short term trip permit permitting her unlicensed vehicle to travel on public highways and drive all the way back to Oregon where the seller will accompany her to the DMV office. I'm sure her insurance company will issue a temporary rider so that she needn't traverse the country again uninsured.

Problem solved!

Francesca

[Tom Trostel]

I do not know how other's vehicle insurance policies read, but my policy states that anything that I drive or attach to my vehicle; whether I own it, borrow it, or rent it; is covered for liability. Liability insurance is all most states require. It may not be correct to state that she is uninsured.

[Joe Z]

Originally Posted by Panoz77

PA doesn't require a VIN inspection,

Jen B is right.... Pa does require a personal VIN Inspection from out of state trailers. I live in Reading Pa and i went down to title the trailer locally that i purchased in Michigan and they made me go back to the house and get the trailer and bring it to them for VIN Inspection
Joe

[Vickie B.]

Cyndi---saying a prayer for you that you find out there's a simpler solution!!!!

V

[Bobbie Mayer]

I doubt you'll have to tow it back to Oregon, but the temporary permit may be needed for camping this summer while you are working it out.

[Lizbeth]

Everyone is forecasting doom and gloom. I'm sure this problem can be solved with some work. My solution to this kind of problem is to get a notebook and start making phone calls. Record in said note book phone number, name and extension of everyone you talk to. Talk to people till you get the answer you want and highlight that persons name and number!

Heck if I could get a title on my stolen Boler this should be doable with some work.

[Bob and Linda]

Originally Posted by Cyndivg11

Perhaps I can get a hold of Man "A" and have him get a duplicate title, send it to me, as the buyer. ? Would that work?

I ran into this before as there is a number of people out there who are trying to be fiberglass trailer resellers. The main reason they are not getting the title put in their name as they would then have to pay their state sales tax. They are buying from the first party and trying to sell to the third party (you) without being a legit dealer, this leaves the final buyer in a big bind in most cases, while they reap the profits. One of the first things a buyer should ask is, do you have a clear title in your name. If the seller doesn't, walk away from the deal.

[Ken C]

but how can you be sure, with laser printers being able to fool people with fake money. How would you know you have a real title? That's what I personally would wonder anyway.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Originally Posted by Bob and Linda

One of the first things a buyer should ask is, do you have a clear title in your name. If the seller doesn't, walk away from the deal.

I'm going to be selling my sailboat- I could have sold it last summer without a title as I needed to get a duplicate, and I decided that it was a bad idea to have someone take it without proper paperwork so didn't sell. (It would have been no problem in California but it is titled in California and I was selling in Washington.) Now I have the title for both trailer and boat and shouldn't run into any issues.

[Roger C H]

Take all your "evidence" to your DMV. Make print outs of the original ad and anything else from the internet. Bring your receipts for gas and motels driving to and back from Oregon, any document that may apply. You still may have to return to Oregon to clear the title with that state. The only way to avoid that is if PA and OR will work together.

Man B would have helped if he had not placed his name on the California title, a moot point. You are not there. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, is useless at this point.

Let this be a lesson for the future, NEVER buy any titled object that does not have a squeaky clean title, especially such a long distance. If you had driven back from Oregon without the trailer, you would be in a better place than you are now.

[Andy B]

I bought my Burro out of state without a title, only a bill of sale, from someone that had never registered it and purchased it several years earlier. The seller could not even find a vin on the trailer which was lucky for me since I was the 3rd person to look at it. The 1st potential buyer declined because of the rotted floor and the 2nd person declined because of no vin number. I negotiated a price reduction due to the lack of a vin. After I got it home I found the vin stamped on the frame. My state does not require a title for trailers under 3000 lbs. When I first went to the DMV they told me that I needed a vin inspection since it came from out-of-state and they gave me paperwork to fill out. I went back to the DMV with the paperwork filled out and they just issued the registration never even mentioning a vin inspection. It turned out to be real easy.

I had previously purchased a utility trailer out of state with only a bill of sale and went through the same process except that I was required to get the vin inspection.

In case I had trouble at the DMV, I looked up the requirements for a home built trailer and a repaired trailer. I found that in my state if you combine parts from multiple trailers together, you can register it with the vin from either of the trailers. If I had problems registering the Burro, I was going to buy a cheap utility trailer, combine parts from that trailer with the Burro and then register it with the vin from the utility trailer.

There are many legal ways to get the trailer registered without going back across the country.

[Gumpit]

36 Piece 3/8" Steel Letter/Number Stamping Set Just make one up. Do a bill of sale and call it a day.Mine is only on a piece of paper in the closet. I am going to "make" another one on the frame to prevent any future issues in case it peels off. I bought mine in NH. Registered it in my friends name who lives in NH with just a handwritten bill of sale. Then did a bill of sale from him with the registration and had no problem registering it here in Massachusetts.

[Greg H]

I'm liking Andy's thinking, I also have thought if I have any issues with Cali when I transfer title I will cut the tongue off of my utility trailer and have it welded to the egg, then it kinda sorta will become a modified utility/cargo/ camper.

[John and Jaci]

We had a simular issue with our Boler. We live in Tennessee and purchased it from a man in Mississippi. He never registered it as he bought it as a project but never got around to starting in and then sold it. All we had was a bill of sale. The local DMV was very difficult to deal with. They were of little to no help with how we could resolve the issue. We found the phone number to the main state office for trailer registrations and called directly there. He was able to direct us with exactly what he needed in order to issue us a new title and registration. We had to get a notarized letter from the previous owner as to why he never registered it. That plus a few other forms that we had to fill out and we were able to get it titled and registered. I suggest that you call directly to the main office for registrations at the state capital and ask to speak with the individual in charge of trailer registrations. Explain the situation to them and they can direct you as to how to most easily resolve your issue. Good luck.

[melissab]

"Stolen Boler"???? Oh do tell Lizbeth! Inquiring minds want to hear this story, lol.

Originally Posted by Lizbeth

Everyone is forecasting doom and gloom. I'm sure this problem can be solved with some work. My solution to this kind of problem is to get a notebook and start making phone calls. Record in said note book phone number, name and extension of everyone you talk to. Talk to people till you get the answer you want and highlight that persons name and number!

Heck if I could get a title on my stolen Boler this should be doable with some work.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Tom Trostel

I do not know how other's vehicle insurance policies read, but my policy states that anything that I drive or attach to my vehicle; whether I own it, borrow it, or rent it; is covered for liability. Liability insurance is all most states require. It may not be correct to state that she is uninsured.

My insurance coverage is just like yours-HOWEVER, like all coverage of any kind I've ever owned, illegal acts void the policy.
Taking an unlicensed vehicle on the road is illegal in every state, and it would be a very forgiving insurance company indeed that would pay any kind of claim in the event of one's being involved in an accident while doing so.