Boler Electrical Questions

[Perry J]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Sorry, You can do what want of course.
But, others might like to know that some things people do and talk about are not the ideal way.

You have hit upon a point that has bothered me since I have been a member.

Most advice is great, but I have to bite my tongue, or typing finger, when I read some of the advice given on this site.

I have sent more than one PM rather than point out what experience has taught me is incorrect advice.

I'm not referring to you Byron. You give good advice backed up by a logical explanation as in this case.

Your opening line was what caught my eye and caused me to write this.
JOHN

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

OK, so put in a 45 Amp source running 20 Amp Maximum trailer. Yup, makes sense NOT!

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

Number 4 is the only one that makes sense. However my overkill 30 Amp has both an AC and a DC distribution panel.

I've seen these statements before. The fan won't run as much is a myth. Longer life is myth.

A couple things I have tendency to equate these type of reasoning too.
1. If was going to get a generator I better at least a 5KW even though I don't have Air Conditioning or a Microwave Oven.
2. I need to have Power Diesel to pull my 2000lb trailer.

My 2 cents worth.

[Peter_Crowl]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

I was about to point out the AC distribution panel that's integral to the 4045 but you covered that base. With it I can have separate circuits for the refrigerator and the AC - and still have one to spare.

I fail to see how choosing a converter/charger/distribution panel product such as this and suggesting it to others can be construed as incorrect advice.

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I've seen these statements before. The fan won't run as much is a myth. Longer life is myth.

Here are some quotes from 2 different converter descriptions...

"INTELLIGENT COOLING FAN – A solid state temperature sensing and control system operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions"

"VARIABLE SPEED FAN AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS COOLING FAN AS NEEDED TO CONTROL UNIT TEMPERATURE"

I don't think the people selling these things are using myths for marketing, maybe you are not familiar with newer converters.

Is there any statistical data that shows that longer life is myth or is that just your opinion?

I just looked and compared the same brand 30 and 45 amp converter on ebay, they were the same dimensions, and the 45 amp weighs 1/2 lb more. The 45 amp converter could be purchased for less than the 30 amp, most likely because so many more of them are sold.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

I was about to point out the AC distribution panel that's integral to the 4045 but you covered that base. With it I can have separate circuits for the refrigerator and the AC - and still have one to spare.

I fail to see how choosing a converter/charger/distribution panel product such as this and suggesting it to others can be construed as incorrect advice.

Note:
I said that's the only reason you listed that makes sense, the rest is based on myth.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Here are some quotes from 2 different converter descriptions...

"INTELLIGENT COOLING FAN – A solid state temperature sensing and control system operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions"

"VARIABLE SPEED FAN AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS COOLING FAN AS NEEDED TO CONTROL UNIT TEMPERATURE"

I don't think the people selling these things are using myths for marketing, maybe you are not familiar with newer converters.

Is there any statistical data that shows that longer life is myth or is that just your opinion?

I just looked and compared the same brand 30 and 45 amp converter on ebay, they were the same dimensions, and the 45 amp weighs 1/2 lb more. The 45 amp converter could be purchased for less than the 30 amp, most likely because so many more of them are sold.

Your last statement could very well be true and would be a valid reason for a 45 Amp converter.

""INTELLIGENT COOLING FAN – A solid state temperature sensing and control system operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions"

"VARIABLE SPEED FAN AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS COOLING FAN AS NEEDED TO CONTROL UNIT TEMPERATURE"

Those statement really don't have anything do to with 45 Amp maximum vs 20 Amp maximum converter. Since the heat dissipated is determined by the amount of current drawn and the efficiency of converter it will be the same for both converters.

There's other design considerations that I won't go into.

If I was buying I would go with the less expensive.

[Peter_Crowl]

I said that's the only reason you listed that makes sense, the rest is based on myth.

Actually you said that to Andy.

However, it would appear that we've gotten to the bottom of your objection...Cost.

So - to provide the best response for the OP and others who read this thread, perhaps you could post a summary - with current prices from commonly used online vendors - for the system that you'd recommend. That way people looking for information would have a clear idea of the price difference.

To be fair that would be an automatically controlled 3 stage charger of a capacity at least equal to the basic load of a refrigerator, lighting, vent fan(s) - perhaps some cushion for entertainment equipment - an AC distribution panel of - let's say - 3 circuits, and a fused DC distribution buss - perhaps 6 circuits.


With that a person would have good information from which to make some decisions.

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

""INTELLIGENT COOLING FAN – A solid state temperature sensing and control system operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions"

"VARIABLE SPEED FAN AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS COOLING FAN AS NEEDED TO CONTROL UNIT TEMPERATURE"

Those statement really don't have anything do to with 45 Amp maximum vs 20 Amp maximum converter. Since the heat dissipated is determined by the amount of current drawn and the efficiency of converter it will be the same for both converters.

You seem to be assuming that a 20 amp converter would have the same size heat sink as a 45 amp converter. That would be very unlikely. The 20 amp converter would have a heat sink sized for the heat generated converting 20 amps with the fan blowing at full power. The 45 amp converter would have a heat sink sized for the heat generated converting 45 amps with the fan blowing at full power. If the trailer requirement is 20 amps then the small converter is using 100% of it's heat dissipation capability. Under the same 20 amp requirement the 45 amp converter is using only 44% of it's heat dissipation capability. Using only 44% of the capability the fan may not need to run at all or it would run at reduced speed.
The quote above says "operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions" and 44% of capacity is not a high load condition.

Is there any statistical data that shows that longer life for a device operating at 44% of capacity instead of 100% is myth or is that just your opinion?

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Greg H

Boler has a six pin, no brakes.

There's a 6 pin originally on the boler American, which has a number of subtle differences from the other bolers. One can safely say that not all bolers are the same, it all depends on when and where they were made.

[JTD]

Originally Posted by Roy in TO

There's a 6 pin originally on the boler American, which has a number of subtle differences from the other bolers. One can safely say that not all bolers are the same, it all depends on when and where they were made.

Just my 2 bits...
Calculate the total DC load you are going to use in your trailer before buying a DC converter. First I will state the bigger the better, but most smaller trailers do not have a high DC (12volt) demand. Basic items such as lights and water pump are the main loads. The exception is a 12volt fridge which I would not use (propane instead) as it draws a lot of current. With my experience a converter putting out more than 10 amps is far more than is required and typically most units come with a converter that will put out 2 to 5 amps on a good day. The largest current load which I find causes problems is the lights (wife and young kids) being left on.

The battery has a volt amps rating (78 amp/hour ?) which is what you need to consider if fast charging is required. This is how much current is required in an hour so 78amp/hour would take 1 hour to charge or 39 amps for 2 hours etc.A couple things to consider: do you plug in to 115Volt AC and your vehicle driving time. The converter is usually used for turning AC to DC and if you are doing this then you have power so DC will not be a huge concern. If plugged into the vehicle 35amps plus is available to the trailer which would charge in 2 hours assuming 70amp/hour battery. The vehicle is typically directly wired to the trailer and uses the alternator regulator to control the voltage and current demand. Biggest issue is the length of wire run from vehicle power source to trailer and size of wire as there is larger resistance in smaller gauge wire.

Any substitute charging such as solar panels will typically be less than 7amps unless you go really serious and will easily keep a battery top charged.

Where I have seen problems requiring a larger converter is if charging off a generator and you want to run it for a short period. In this case go big with the converter.

Our 17 foot bigfoot has went for a 1.5 weeks of camping with a charged battery and a 15watt solar panel.