Brake Wiring in the Scamp - Fiberglass RV


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 362
I recently did the mechanical installation for brakes on our 2004 13' Scamp. I'm about to do the wiring and have discovered that Scamp just uses wire nuts for the major connection of the 7-wire line into the house system. I guess this has been found to be adequate, but I'm thinking I at least want soldered connections of the brake wires into the 7-wire line. Is this overkill? I bet Scamp connects into the house wiring downstream of this major connection point for factory-installed brakes. I'm thinking of making solder connections into the 7-wire line, THEN connecting to the rest of the house wiring by whatever means is reasonable, which could include sticking with the wirenuts. It's my nature to want to do something more elaborate with terminal strips, etc, but Scamp's setup must be sufficient or they wouldn't do it that way, right?
__________________

__________________
Parker Buckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 12:19 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,313
Registry
Quote:
I recently did the mechanical installation for brakes on our 2004 13' Scamp. I'm about to do the wiring and have discovered that Scamp just uses wire nuts for the major connection of the 7-wire line into the house system. I guess this has been found to be adequate, but I'm thinking I at least want soldered connections of the brake wires into the 7-wire line. Is this overkill? I bet Scamp connects into the house wiring downstream of this major connection point for factory-installed brakes. I'm thinking of making solder connections into the 7-wire line, THEN connecting to the rest of the house wiring by whatever means is reasonable, which could include sticking with the wirenuts. It's my nature to want to do something more elaborate with terminal strips, etc, but Scamp's setup must be sufficient or they wouldn't do it that way, right?
Soldering of wires that move is never a good idea. The problem is the heat and solder make the wires brittle at the connection. As wires move and vibrate they break at the solder connection. I would be more likely to use wire nuts and put dielectric grease in them after making the connection. If you are concerned that they might come loose a bit of tape can fix that. The very best of connection is a made with crimp connectors. However, that requires a good crimping tool and/or a bit of strength to make a good crimp.

The most likely to fail is solder connections. Been there too many times to count.
__________________

__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:04 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Pete Dumbleton's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
Send a message via Yahoo to Pete Dumbleton
And, as been oft-repeated on this group, do NOT tin any wires before making any crimp or wire-nut or other compression connection. Solder will cold-flow under pressure and the connection will eventually not be as tight as it originally was.
__________________
Pete Dumbleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:06 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,313
Registry
Quote:
And, as been oft-repeated on this group, do NOT tin any wires before making any crimp or wire-nut or other compression connection. Solder will cold-flow under pressure and the connection will eventually not be as tight as it originally was.
As important tinning does the same thing as soldering, heats the wires and makes them brittle. Hence, connection failure.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 02:17 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 362
Wow, so you guys recommend against solder! Well, I'm glad I asked. I've done a ton of ham radio antenna work this way and never had the failure you're describing, even with wires whipping around in the breeze. What about the connections to the wires coming from the brake backing plates? I was going to solder the splices and then cover with heat shrink tubing. Would you use butt-type crimp connectors here, then tape over them to keep the crud out?

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Parker
__________________
Parker Buckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 02:42 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,313
Registry
Quote:
Wow, so you guys recommend against solder! Well, I'm glad I asked. I've done a ton of ham radio antenna work this way and never had the failure you're describing, even with wires whipping around in the breeze. What about the connections to the wires coming from the brake backing plates? I was going to solder the splices and then cover with heat shrink tubing. Would you use butt-type crimp connectors here, then tape over them to keep the crud out?

Thanks for sharing your experience!

Parker
Generally with antenna coax there's a connector with a pretty strong strain relief that protects the brittle part of the solder connection. With trailer wiring with a lot of vibration you don't have that.
A butt type crimp connection is good. Once the crimp is made I'd put dielectric grease in the opening(s). The dielectric grease will probably keep all the stuff out and prevent corrosion of the wires from road salts. Tape could (note could) help keep the dielectric grease in place, thus possibly providing a longer term protection.

I strongly recommend dielectric grease for any outside connections. We did a test a few years ago. Submerged a product with connector in salt water for about 1 year. The dielectric grease protected the connector with no signs of any corrosion. The same connector on the outside of a vehicle corroded and the connector failed after about two months. Made me a believer.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 02:54 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 362
One more question, then, since you're advocating crimp connectors. How do I bring two #10 wires in on one side of a butt connector to mate with a single #10 wire on the other side (a Y connection, so to speak). Not a problem with a wire nut, but where do I get crimp connectors to make such a connection?

Parker
__________________
Parker Buckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 03:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Pete Dumbleton's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
Send a message via Yahoo to Pete Dumbleton
Two ways I can think of:

Use a large butt splice, put all three wires in one end, crimp, apply dielectric grease to both ends.

Use one of these , crimp and fill. These connectors are very standard in home wiring and come in many sizes as I recall.




__________________
Pete Dumbleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 03:19 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 362
Quote:
Two ways I can think of:

Use a large butt splice, put all three wires in one end, crimp, apply dielectric grease to both ends.

Use one of these , crimp and fill. These connectors are very standard in home wiring and come in many sizes as I recall.
Well, I guess that's simple enough. Back to Lowes! I think for the simple butt splices at the brake backing plates I'll used the standard crimped butt connectors, fill with dielectric, then cover with heat shrink to keep the grease in and the crud out.

Thanks,
Parker
__________________
Parker Buckley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
John Perry's Avatar
 
Name: John
Trailer: 1996 13 ft Scamp
California
Posts: 471
Send a message via AIM to John Perry
I guess I am a contrarian.
I have never been without a boat and boat trailer for the last 40 years. I have a 3 ATV trailer, a Trillium and my Scamp. In the past I have had stock and horse trailers and other travel trailers.
I solder every connection that I can when working on the lights or brakes. I tin the ends of the wires when making up the electrical connectors from the TV to the trailer. On exposed joints such as the brake wires at the backing plates I use 2 layers of heat shrink tubing and then coat it with Liquid Electrical Tape.
I have never had a soldered connection fail. I cannnot remember the last time I had a problem with my lights or brakes, other than on a new to me trailer, other than a burned out bulb.
Maybe I have just been lucky but it seems to work for me.
John
__________________
John Perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 04:01 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,313
Registry
Quote:
I guess I am a contrarian.
I have never been without a boat and boat trailer for the last 40 years. I have a 3 ATV trailer, a Trillium and my Scamp. In the past I have had stock and horse trailers and other travel trailers.
I solder every connection that I can when working on the lights or brakes. I tin the ends of the wires when making up the electrical connectors from the TV to the trailer. On exposed joints such as the brake wires at the backing plates I use 2 layers of heat shrink tubing and then coat it with Liquid Electrical Tape.
I have never had a soldered connection fail. I cannnot remember the last time I had a problem with my lights or brakes, other than on a new to me trailer, other than a burned out bulb.
Maybe I have just been lucky but it seems to work for me.
John
Test for you.. Solder a couple wires together, use a crimp connector to splice a couple wires. Now wiggle the wires at each connection until failure. Come back and tell us which one failed failed first.

I've been in the electronic manufacturing business for over 40 years. I have yet to see a properly crimp connection fail. Just last Friday I had to tear apart a piece of production machinery and repair a solder connection. I seem to need to repair solder connections three for four times a year, not the same ones.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 04:08 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Pete Dumbleton's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
Send a message via Yahoo to Pete Dumbleton
Actually, I've never had any of the connections fail, so doing anything might be a waste of time<grinz>.
__________________
Pete Dumbleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 04:52 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Byron Kinnaman's Avatar
 
Name: Byron
Trailer: 2006 Scamp 13' towed with a 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7l Magnum W/full tow package (over kill)
Oregon
Posts: 6,313
Registry
Quote:
Actually, I've never had any of the connections fail, so doing anything might be a waste of time<grinz>.
At quick guess I've seen a couple thousand or more solder connection failures, probably more.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
Byron Kinnaman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 05:06 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Pete Dumbleton's Avatar
 
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
Send a message via Yahoo to Pete Dumbleton
Based on the above, two out of three don't have problems. And the third only has problems if connections are soldered.

Seriously, I've never had a problem with crimped or wire-nut trailer connections on a long series of boat, utility and travel trailers except when the wires suffered physical damage by being crushed or pulled.

Even if it were not a potential problem, I wouldn't go to the trouble of soldering connections. I'm not trying for Mil-Spec, just good. Crimps and wire-nuts have been good in the past, and any future connections will be finished with dielectric grease.
__________________

__________________
Pete Dumbleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
scamp


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brake Controller Wiring Don N Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 5 07-30-2009 09:23 PM
Brake controller wiring for a 94 Ranger Roy in TO Towing, Hitching, Axles and Running Gear 3 07-20-2008 12:59 AM
Scamp 13 Brake Wiring Parker Buckley Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 15 02-12-2008 06:42 PM
Brake Control Wiring Help Needed Gail Shook Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 8 06-07-2007 07:02 AM
2003 Silverado Brake Wiring Legacy Posts Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 1 07-19-2003 03:24 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.