Campground electrical connections???

[Doug Mager]

A poser for all you Alec Trical genei(??) in here...

Over the many years of r/ving the Trailer Goddess and I have done, I FINALLY realized that there IS a little difference in some campground reciptical boxes. SOME seem to have the ground wire(part of the male plug) at the 12 o'clock position and OTHERS have the ground wire (of the same plug) located at the 6 o'clock position. Does this mean that the other two wires are attached to the other (than normal) connections the on plug?

What my problem seems to be is that the plug on our trailer has the ground wire located at the 6 o'clock position and when I plug that plug into a reciptical with the ground wire at the 12 o'clock position THAT causes stress on the trailers plug. This has meant that now the plug is pulling away from its housing (hopefully NOT harming the wires located inside?). What I am/was thinking of doing is making a short (adaptor) cord which would have the ground wire located at the 12 o'clock position. What this might do is cause a reversal of the wires. This in turn (so the directions say that came with the plug) MIGHT cause some harm to appliances using this cord (with reversed wires).

Heres hoping one/some of you 'lektrical wizards MIGHT be able to grasp the issue I'm having and help me 'correctly' make up a short adaptor cord which will work without causing campground blackouts OR damage to electrical appliances in the trailer.

TIA: The Old Fart, LOL!!!

[Matt in SV]

Are you saying that you have a right angle plug, and some of the campgrounds have the 30A outlet installed upside down, causing your cable to stick up in the air instead of lying flat?



If this is the case then you can't correct the problem with a rewired plug, and probably shouldn't try. Maybe you could get a short extension, or I completely misunderstand the problem?

Regards,

Matt

[Joy A]

I've encountered this problem a couple of times with my 30amp having the ground at 12 o'clock and the campgrounds jack is at 6 o'clock. The reverse of what you are saying. I simply use a piece of double sided velcro to hold the plug in place.

I just added a plug to a leftover piece of 30 amp cord making a new extension cord. All the plugs I've seen have the ground wire at 12 o'clock with the cord coming in opposite to it. This adapter isn't going to help as the cord would still be on the up end rather than hanging down. I purchased a "dog bone" for just that purpose and it doesn't help, the cord still goes up.

Hey, if you truly do have the ground at 6 o'clock unlike the picture above then maybe this is another US/Canadian thing like the water hose quick connects being different.

If so then you could get an adapter like I used with ground at 12 o'clock and one from Canada with the ground at 6 o'clock and carefully criss-cross the black and white wires. Problem solved, there's your adapter.

[Doug Mager]

I neglected to add in my post that I'm dealing with a 15A service here, not 30A's, but the issue remains the same. The 'ground' wire is sometimes located at the 12:00 position and my plug (15A) has the 'ground' wire located at the 6:00 position. I can make a 'patch' cord and wire it so the (male plug end) complete cable is at the 6:00 position. If I wire the plug as directed, the remaining two wires (one white, one black) will be on the other sides of the old plug.

Another omission on my part was the fact that this reversal of ground wire location in R/V recepticals SEEMS to be mainly in American parks (read KOA's). Canada sorrily seems to lack KOA facilities especially in the western provinces.

[Bud Kennedy]

Originally Posted by Doug Mager

I neglected to add in my post that I'm dealing with a 15A service here, not 30A's, but the issue remains the same. The 'ground' wire is sometimes located at the 12:00 position and my plug (15A) has the 'ground' wire located at the 6:00 position. I can make a 'patch' cord and wire it so the (male plug end) complete cable is at the 6:00 position. If I wire the plug as directed, the remaining two wires (one white, one black) will be on the other sides of the old plug.

Another omission on my part was the fact that this reversal of ground wire location in R/V recepticals SEEMS to be mainly in American parks (read KOA's). Canada sorrily seems to lack KOA facilities especially in the western provinces.

The only reason that the ground ( in both cases ) is sometimes in the UP position is that the person who installed the outlet did it upside down. This is because he didn't care or didn't know how it is done. When the plug in a straight in setup, it dosn't matter how the ground is located but in the case of a 90 degree plug, the ground is ALWAYS facing down. Therefore the receptacle should be installed that way.

If it bothers you take a screwdriver along and re-position the receptacle. Unscrew the cover, remove two screws, rotate the receptacle and re-install. I reccomend you turn the breaker off first.

[Doug Mager]

Thanks for that quick reply, here's a little more of my 'concern'. If I open this replacement plug up to change the thing, the plug is marked as to where the three different colors go. If one takes that same plug and rotates it 180 degrees, such that the ground wire is now opposite, thta also reverses the position of the two remaining wires ....in our case black n white or vice versa. Does this NOT affect the polarity of the plug potentially causing electrical issues either for appliances plugged in (on line) OR possible damage to the wireing in the campground itself? The reason why I ask/say this is in the past my wife an I have been at a KOA @ The Delles and plugged in and promptly proceeded to blow out half the campgrounds power.... our unit was also affected but closer examination revealed our unit was wired correctly...
I'm soooo confused with this issue...

[CD Smith]

Originally Posted by Bud Kennedy

The only reason that the ground ( in both cases ) is sometimes in the UP position is that the person who installed the outlet did it upside down.

This is incorrect!

Electrical codes require that:
1) 115 VAC 15 AMP electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH (green wire round pin) at the 6 o'clock position.
2) 115 VAC 30 AMP single phase electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH (green wire - round pin) at the 12 o'clock position.
3) 115 VAC 30 AMP two phase electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH ) green wire - vertical blade) in the 12 o'clock position.

And YES, there are frequently installed incorectly!

[Matt in SV]

This brings up a good point - the difference between the outlet orientation and its wiring. For about $5 you can pick one of these testers at your local hardware store. They're called circuit or Edison testers and will tell you if you have an open ground or reversed polarity at the plug. This can be really important in a trailer with water and wiring around. To use it, all you do is plug it in and read the lights Correct is usually two yellow lights on the right, and anything else represents some kind of fault.

It's a good idea to check the outlets in your home and trailer periodically, because they can go bad. And the ground fault circuits in our trailers rely on having good ground connections!

[Doug Mager]

Thanks for that heads up, looks like another trip over to our local hardware store is in order for tomorrow!!!

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by CD Smith

This is incorrect!

Electrical codes require that:
1) 115 VAC 15 AMP electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH (green wire round pin) at the 6 o'clock position.
2) 115 VAC 30 AMP single phase electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH (green wire - round pin) at the 12 o'clock position.
3) 115 VAC 30 AMP two phase electrical sockets be installed with the EARTH ) green wire - vertical blade) in the 12 o'clock position.

And YES, there are frequently installed incorectly!

If you are quoting the US NEC, could you give the article? I have not found any orientation requirements.

[Joe MacDonald]

Doug, get a short extension cord, plug your rig into it, then plug that into the receptacle at the campground, if you have to; use something to secure it to the receptacle.
the little tester shown is the same one most hydro inspectors use around here, being an electrician I also use one frequently. One thing you might find is that if you find a problem at the site, they may not have anyone to deal with it.

Joe

[Eddie Longest]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

If you are quoting the US NEC, could you give the article? I have not found any orientation requirements.

About 10 years BR (Before Retirement) I was tasked to monitor the construction of an addition to our avionics building. I complained to the super and the electrical contractor that the duplexes were all installed upside down with the grounds up. I was told it was a union local policy (IBEW 666) to install the grounds up to signify it was a union job and they refused to flip the duplexes with the grounds on the lower side. I checked the US NEC and could not find a specific way the duplexes should be installed. The day after the building was accepted my technicians went in and we flipped over all the duplexes with the grounds down prior to moving in our equipment.
Eddie

[Curtis F.]

Rotating an AC outlet 180 degrees does not disturb the polarity of the electricity. AC is alternating current. Also, for many years now 115V plugs have been polarized by having one over sized lug that won't go in but one slot.

I recently read about the ground up or down issue. I'll look for it, because they included some quotes. One of the arguments for having the ground a 12 o'clock position was that any metal items falling on a partially removed plug would be grounded thus reducing the chance of electrocution. Safety for the kids was mentioned. You know, do anything even if it only saves one kid's life. I'll try to find the other material and get back to you.

[Curtis F.]

Couldn't find what I know I read. But, the essense was that at one time ground up or down was in the NEC code and union electricians of course followed NEC. There was not agreement on what was in the old NEC. As of 2008, we know for sure NEC does not mention ground orientation. When plug orientation was taken out of NEC, union electricians just continue in the way they and their predecessors have always done it. It was also mentioned that many hospitals required ground up. Don't even ask on a horizontal outlet if the ground goes on the left or right.

It also appears that some Provinces in Canada have established conflicting ground up or down rules.

So, current NEC doesn't specify orientation. Any Province, State, County, City, or corporation can specify orientation.

[Doug Mager]

I think I remember reading somewhere that the 'ground' down wiring meant that the 'ground' wire would be the last wire 'accidently' pulled from a connection, thereby making it safer??
MAYBE I'm (yet) again WRONG in my thinking???

[CD Smith]

I stand corrected!

The NEC code makes no reference to 'convience outlet' orientation for either residencial or commercial construction.

I do not have access to the NEC code so I read Chapter 15 of the 'Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers'. No reference there either.

I ask the electrical contractor doing the remodeling of our guest bathroom. He said, "If the NEC code referenced the orientation of convience outlets it would move it from the practical to the philosophicalbecause if a large group says one orientation is up, there would be another equally large group that says it should be the other way around. We customarily put the 115 VAC outlets with the neutral down even though there's no code about it. The others we put in every which away."

I ask the architect that put some notes about convience outlet orientation on the electrical layout drawing for my house. He said, "I do that to keep from having arguments with the installers when they put some in one way and others in the other way. That's the only way to make the orientation consistant. Besides the template I used to create the drawing shows it that way."

I went and looked at the Electrical Wiring template in the VISIO design software that I use and he was right. That's the way they are shown.

To each his own!

[Curtis F.]

Originally Posted by Doug Mager

I think I remember reading somewhere that the 'ground' down wiring meant that the 'ground' wire would be the last wire 'accidently' pulled from a connection, thereby making it safer??
MAYBE I'm (yet) again WRONG in my thinking???

The orientation of the plug is not supposed to make a difference in which post of the plug makes contact first or last. The ground post is slightly longer than the other two posts and if the plug is pushed/pulled straight in/out will be the last to lose contact. The internal design of the outlet also favors the ground post being first/last to lose contact. Mechanically a great deal of force would need to be used to disconnect the ground post while one or both of the other two were still connected. Probably resulting in the outlet or plug being damaged.

On the other hand an old deformed plug or broken outlet will defeat the safest designs man can come up with.

Yes, I agree, with the ground post orientated down, the ground post is even more likely to be the first/last contact made

[Jon Vermilye]

On the other hand, the reason I have been given for putting the ground pin up is that there is less chance of the ground pin breaking off due to the weight or other downward pressure on the cord. I know the electricians working in my area all wire ground pin up.

I suspect there are good reasons supporting either orientation, although most of the older installations seem to be down & newer ones up.

[Matt in SV]

The only missing ground pins I have seen were the the ones my dad cut off in desperation! That was back in the 70's when grounded outlets were harder to find. I probably would have done the same.

Today the ground pin is longer than the blades, so it should be the last to pull out in either orientation. I would also expect it to be a lot sturdier than the blades because it's a cylinder.

Regards,

Matt