Can't keep RM2193 running on propane when going down the road - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-13-2015, 02:55 PM   #15
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Unhappy Propane on RVs

"Traveling with Propane
Driving with propane turned off may seem to be a no-brainer, but forgetting to turn your propane tanks off before traveling is one mistake that is easy to make. It's illegal to have your vehicle in motion with your propane tank valves open, and most definitely a risk when traveling through tunnels. It doesn't take much imagination to realize the impossibility of escape from a burning RV in a tunnel, on a bridge, or on the highway, anywhere. Play it safe and prevent fires."

RV Safety with Propane Tanks - Safety Tips



Some states don't allow propane tanks in tunnels, turned on or off.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
I have owned about 12 RV's over the years, from Airstreams to Tent Trailers to several sizes of motorhomes and never saw a warning against using LP while under way on any of them. They don't have to tell you it's safe, but they would warn you that it's unsafe. What does it say in your Scamp's manual?


Add to that, many RV refrigerators are "2 Way", gas and 120 VAC, I know that Winnebago has installed them in mini-motorhomes, and how would you run those while under way?


But I have seen a lot of fires following automobile accidents due to ruptured fuel tanks.


Odds may be about the same....?


Soooo... If any one has any documentation recommending against it, lets see it.
http://www.airstream.com/wp-content/...Land-Yacht.pdf

Page 3.7 "Exterior" "2. Turn off gas at LP tanks."
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:10 PM   #17
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Wow Speaking of Old Timey Anecdotes. If Scamp is basing their "Recommendation" to turn off the LP while travelling on their statement that it is against the law in some states to drive with the LP ON, I am afraid that ship sailed long ago.


Except in some tunnels. bridges and on ferries, which will have signage indicating so, there are no state laws that prohibit the use of LP appliances while under way.


The video is "Informational" and carries no credits as even being a Scamp corporate production. And Scamp does not even suggest that it is unsafe to travel with the LP to the refrigerator ON, only that they "Recommend" that it be off. One would think that, after 40+ years of building RV's, that if this was a real safety issue, that Scamp would have attached a $.50 sticker somewhere near either the LP tank or the refrigerator control panel indicating that danger.


As such, in terms of protection from liability, a Youtube video isn't worth the paper it's written on.....


Unfortunately I am still in the fire area of Wa and 1200 miles from my own store of RV manuals, but, as mentioned I don't ever recall seeing any "Warning" or safety issue pertaining to lp use while under way.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:33 PM   #18
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Wow Speaking of Old Timey Anecdotes. If Scamp is basing their "Recommendation" to turn off the LP while travelling on their statement that it is against the law in some states to drive with the LP ON, I am afraid that ship sailed long ago.


Except in some tunnels. bridges and on ferries, which will have signage indicating so, there are no state laws that prohibit the use of LP appliances while under way.


The video is "Informational" and carries no credits as even being a Scamp corporate production. And Scamp does not even suggest that it is unsafe to travel with the LP to the refrigerator ON, only that they "Recommend" that it be off. One would think that, after 40+ years of building RV's, that if this was a real safety issue, that Scamp would have attached a $.50 sticker somewhere near either the LP tank or the refrigerator control panel indicating that danger.


As such, in terms of protection from liability, a Youtube video isn't worth the paper it's written on.....


Unfortunately I am still in the fire area of Wa and 1200 miles from my own store of RV manuals, but, as mentioned I don't ever recall seeing any "Warning" or safety issue pertaining to lp use while under way.
"The video is "Informational" and carries no credits as even being a Scamp corporate production."

Nope, it's what you get when you get into the official Scamp site and check under "Videos". Casita and Airstream say the same thing. Lawyer all you want.

Folks, I knew this would happen when I first posted. That's why the "RV Fire Guy" rolls his eyes at the beginning of his youtube....
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roger C H View Post
"Traveling with Propane
Driving with propane turned off may seem to be a no-brainer, but forgetting to turn your propane tanks off before traveling is one mistake that is easy to make. It's illegal to have your vehicle in motion with your propane tank valves open, and most definitely a risk when traveling through tunnels. It doesn't take much imagination to realize the impossibility of escape from a burning RV in a tunnel, on a bridge, or on the highway, anywhere. Play it safe and prevent fires."

RV Safety with Propane Tanks - Safety Tips



Some states don't allow propane tanks in tunnels, turned on or off.
Thanks Roger. You can see a lot of "Just because the Supreme Court says it's a law, that don't mean nothin'" defensiveness here. But if you can just get 1-2 newbies to act responsibly....
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:48 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Roger C H View Post
"Traveling with Propane
Driving with propane turned off may seem to be a no-brainer, but forgetting to turn your propane tanks off before traveling is one mistake that is easy to make. It's illegal to have your vehicle in motion with your propane tank valves open, and most definitely a risk when traveling through tunnels. It doesn't take much imagination to realize the impossibility of escape from a burning RV in a tunnel, on a bridge, or on the highway, anywhere. Play it safe and prevent fires."

RV Safety with Propane Tanks - Safety Tips



Some states don't allow propane tanks in tunnels, turned on or off.
Sorry I missed this earlier
Bold Italics Added.....

Please cite a single state in which it is against the law to travel with a propane tank turned ON. That's an old wives tale that died when propane & CNG started being used as vehicle fuel in all 50 states.

As mentioned, some specific areas may have prohibitions, but there are no state laws that prohibit it being on in general.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Roger C H View Post
"Traveling with Propane
Driving with propane turned off may seem to be a no-brainer, but forgetting to turn your propane tanks off before traveling is one mistake that is easy to make. It's illegal to have your vehicle in motion with your propane tank valves open, and most definitely a risk when traveling through tunnels. It doesn't take much imagination to realize the impossibility of escape from a burning RV in a tunnel, on a bridge, or on the highway, anywhere. Play it safe and prevent fires."

RV Safety with Propane Tanks - Safety Tips



Some states don't allow propane tanks in tunnels, turned on or off.
Roger, I pursued your link and actually like IT'S link better:

RV Propane 101

They are rather unequivocal about this:

"Reminder: Never, ever use propane when driving. Your propane canisters should be secured on the outside of your RV or trailer and never indoors when in motion."
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:15 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Peg Davis View Post
Roger, I pursued your link and actually like IT'S link better:

RV Propane 101

They are rather unequivocal about this:

"Reminder: Never, ever use propane when driving. Your propane canisters should be secured on the outside of your RV or trailer and never indoors when in motion."
Hmmmmm... What about RV;s that have LP tanks enclosed in metal lined cabinets or, heaven forbid, have permanently mounted tanks......
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:05 PM   #23
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Now, let's all play nice.

There is one false assumption in the 'traveling with propane" article, that being that if one of the propane lines in the RV is broken in an accident that you will spewing propane. That was in fact true at one time. But if you have a newer cylinder with the OPD valve with Acme threads, i.e. later than 1998, and the newer regulator designed to work with it, that is no longer the case. If you have an OPD valve, you likely are using a regulator with the Acme connection, the one with the 'no wrench' plastic knob to attach to the cylinder valve. Points to note here are (1) that the OPD valve tanks can't release gas unless they are attached to the regulator. Secondly, the new Acme connector regulators are equipped with a number of safety features, see below, designed to prevent the disasters some are worried about.

"Several changes have been mandated for DOT cylinders since the pigtail mandate.(1977) In 1998 it was mandated that hand screw on Acme nuts be used on the pigtails in place of the older POL (Named after the company that designed them, the Prest-O-Lite Company) connectors. The Acme nut is the part that screws into the cylinder, and takes the place of the older brass POL connectors that screwed into the cylinder valve with a reverse thread requiring a wrench to tighten and seal. The Acme nut is the new Green one that screws onto the OPD's outside thread, uses a normal right hand twist to tighten, and which also tightens to seal by hand only, not requiring a wrench. This is significant because two safety features are built into the Acme nut itself. First, Acme nuts contain a thermal bushing, which will melt in a fire, and prevent the escape of gasses from the tank. When it melts, it allows the new OPD spring activated shut off valve, which will only allow the flow of gas if a fitting is attached, to pop out and completely shut the flow down. They also have an improved excess flow check valve, compared to the valve in the old POL fitting-more on that later. The new Acme nut also adds an O-ring to further help prevent leaks at the connection."

Source: Propane 101-The basics

That excess flow valve mentioned above is what will keep gas from flowing if you open the cylinder valve too quickly.

DOT cylinders must have these newer style connectors and valves. The production date is the top center stamping on your propane cylinder and the OPD valves are clearly marked as such on the valve handle and cannot be interchanged on the stem with the old POL type valve handles.

For more information on the OPD valves, go here: Propane OPD - Overfill Prevention Device Cylinder Valves
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:21 PM   #24
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So... Scamp's video tell you to have the gas off.. and when I was considering an upgrade to the bigger fridge that does not run on 12 volts, one of the Scamp salesman told me it was fine to run it on propane while traveling.

For every tit there is a tat, for every pro there is a con. This debate has gone on for as long as I can remember in this forum and elsewhere. It will never be resolved to the satisfaction of most.

I say we drop the debate over running the fridge on propane while on the road, and if you wish, respond to the OP's question about how to keep it running if that's what he wants to do.

I won't say anything more about running using propane while underway because of the liability.
Maybe someone will join me in the silence.
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:29 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Minimalist View Post
Now, let's all play nice.

There is one false assumption in the 'traveling with propane" article, that being that if one of the propane lines in the RV is broken in an accident that you will spewing propane. That was in fact true at one time. But if you have a newer cylinder with the OPD valve with Acme threads, i.e. later than 1998, and the newer regulator designed to work with it, that is no longer the case. If you have an OPD valve, you likely are using a regulator with the Acme connection, the one with the 'no wrench' plastic knob to attach to the cylinder valve. Points to note here are (1) that the OPD valve tanks can't release gas unless they are attached to the regulator. Secondly, the new Acme connector regulators are equipped with a number of safety features, see below, designed to prevent the disasters some are worried about.

"Several changes have been mandated for DOT cylinders since the pigtail mandate.(1977) In 1998 it was mandated that hand screw on Acme nuts be used on the pigtails in place of the older POL (Named after the company that designed them, the Prest-O-Lite Company) connectors. The Acme nut is the part that screws into the cylinder, and takes the place of the older brass POL connectors that screwed into the cylinder valve with a reverse thread requiring a wrench to tighten and seal. The Acme nut is the new Green one that screws onto the OPD's outside thread, uses a normal right hand twist to tighten, and which also tightens to seal by hand only, not requiring a wrench. This is significant because two safety features are built into the Acme nut itself. First, Acme nuts contain a thermal bushing, which will melt in a fire, and prevent the escape of gasses from the tank. When it melts, it allows the new OPD spring activated shut off valve, which will only allow the flow of gas if a fitting is attached, to pop out and completely shut the flow down. They also have an improved excess flow check valve, compared to the valve in the old POL fitting-more on that later. The new Acme nut also adds an O-ring to further help prevent leaks at the connection."

Source: Propane 101-The basics

That excess flow valve mentioned above is what will keep gas from flowing if you open the cylinder valve too quickly.

DOT cylinders must have these newer style connectors and valves. The production date is the top center stamping on your propane cylinder and the OPD valves are clearly marked as such on the valve handle and cannot be interchanged on the stem with the old POL type valve handles.

For more information on the OPD valves, go here: Propane OPD - Overfill Prevention Device Cylinder Valves
Thx for the reffing, but really not required.

And yet all of the recommendations from trailer manufacturers remain, 17 years after OPD inplementation. In my PSM (process safety management) world, this is a low probability, high consequence event. With some minimal inconvenience attached to the safer way. Now, the OPD valves DO, almost always, stop "excess flow", emphasize "excess". It's also a practice that can't practically be regulated. But if it was comparably risky drilling practice we would put up with the truly minimal "inconvenience" of not doing it. Or, if a remedy was as comparably cheap as running a TV line, then that.

That said, "You gonna do what you gonna do." Nobody can stop you. I just hope that the more thoughful of us, don't.....
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:29 PM   #26
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Another quick note relative to Bob's last comment. As I was researching this subject, I found a comment that the reason for all the DOT safety features mandated on newer cylinders and regulators is based on their reasonable assumption that the cylinders, as opposed to tanks, which are permanently mounted, will be removed, and replaced by non-professionals and therefore should have additional safety features. The ones they mandated make perfect sense.

Of the two Youtube videos I watched, they were clearly talking about motor homes with permanently mounted tanks. In this one, , Mac, The Fire guy clearly mentions schedule 80 pipe, in other words a permanent setup hard piped to the tank. The permanently mounted tanks, professionally installed and filled at the filling station by experienced people, do not have the 'fail safe' features required on removable tanks.

No, I'm not the one to make the distinction between 'tanks' and 'cylinders'. That was a distinction made on the propane association site.
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:49 PM   #27
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Happy to stop talking about this

And please don't kill the messenger. I highjacked my wife's login. We split up fora logins for the fora we register for....
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Old 09-13-2015, 05:54 PM   #28
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Right on Gordon!

Scamp: You may want to read my post on cleaning the gas jets on your refrigerator,Clean those jets.

Cleaning the whole thing, particularly the jets made a lot of sense. I was having problems with keeping the fridge lit when traveling, though I hadn't in the past. After cleaning the jets, I took the trailer out to adjust my brake controller and while at it took a nice, reasonbly long spin at highway speeds. When I go back the refer was still lit.

Now, just to clue you in, I had the trailer hooked up on shore power, with the refer running on AC. When it was nice and cool, I switched from AC to propane. Hours later, I was surprised to find the fridge getting warm. Checking the flame I found it still lit. I then noticed a couple of small cobwebs around the heating unit. I turned off the propane and blew out the burner assembly with air and relit. She started cooling right down. Chances are that if I had taken the trailer for a spin when it wasn't cooling, the flame would have gone out.

Spiders seem to thrive on the residual smell of propane.

Canned air is part of my kit from now on.
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