Dealing with frozen, rusted parts. - Fiberglass RV



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Old 06-18-2019, 11:35 AM   #1
Raz
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Dealing with frozen, rusted parts.

I'm about tackle a rather challenging project, the replacement of the bearings on my 22 year old Maytag washer. The picture shown is what I expect to find. Applying heat is not an option. I plan to fabricate a puller but want to apply a penetrating oil first. I ran across this chart comparing various products. It is supposedly from a study performed by a machinists periodical. How the study was carried out is a mystery. The last entry was a surprise.

*Penetrating oil .......... Average load*
None ........................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

Note: ATF-Acetone is a 50-50 mix.

I thought a discussion on this comparison and dealing with rusted parts in general might be useful to all and not limited to those that have a washing machine in their trailer.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:57 AM   #2
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I am a liquid wrench user and it has served me well for many years. I find a major component of this job to be patience . Apply the liquid wrench, wait at least 24 hours. Then try to pull things apart with some gentle tapping if necessary. I like to put a ball pien hammer against the rusted part of possible and then tap that hammer with a second hammer to transfer the “shock”. If the bearing is surrounded by old plastic, I would not try the tapping.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:37 PM   #3
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Raz,

I bet you end up replacing the whole part. It looks doubtful any kind of puller would apply the needed force without breaking the plastic. Do you have access from the other side?

You might hole saw a hole in a piece of plate. The same size as the ID of the plastic ring, to support it as well as possible. And then tap out the bearing from the other side. Or find a piece of structural tube to match the plastic sleeve area perfectly, and then tap the bearing out.

With a pressed in bearing such as that, it seems unlikely you'll get much penetration from your release agents. And since steel and plastic don't rust into one peace, it may not help much. But it certainly won't hurt to try.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:29 PM   #4
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I'll have a much better idea when I get into it. The picture is from a help thread and is one that was repaired. It's a common problem with several youtube videos and such. From what I've read, the bearings are pressed into an aluminum tube and the aluminum is attached to the plastic. Lots of issues with these washers so there's lots of info. Its a fun project, I have the service manual, and I've fixed most of the other problems before. It's a little like my Troybilt tiller and my Lawnboy mowers. Its fun to try and keep them going. FWIW Neptune washers helped put Maytag out of business. They're owned by Whirlpool now.

Have you or anyone else ever heard of aft mixed with acetone as a penetrating oil?
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Have you or anyone else ever heard of aft mixed with acetone as a penetrating oil?
Yes, I have. But I've never tried it. I wonder if it's not commercially available because of the volatility of acetone? Blaster and Kroil have solved a number of problems, but your chart really speaks for the ATF based stuff. Store it in a closed bottle.

BTW, what is that part? A drum support?
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:11 PM   #6
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Again, I haven't torn into it yet but there's a steel shaft bolted to the inner basket of a front loader. The shaft rides on the bearings. This really is a failed seal issue. That said, it was not my intent to look for help with this. I like figuring this stuff on my own. As I have a rust problem I thought a discussion of dealing with rusted parts might be useful. There's a wealth of experience here that we all can profit from.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:10 PM   #7
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The ATF/acetone mix is not a suprise to those that have experience working on old vintage bicycles. Also note how pathetic WD-40 rates. I like Kroil as well (second on the the list). You will never find it in a store, on line only.

Easiest source of just a small amount of acetone is nail polish remover. Just get the version without a bunch of additives.
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Old 06-19-2019, 09:29 AM   #8
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You should find acetone at any paint store, Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. in a metal can as small as 8 oz. We have it around our shop for cleaning jobs. I have a big squirt bottle of Liquid Wrench to use up, but will have to try the acetone/ATF mixture. It's got to be the cheapest of all, if you need to use lots of it.
A bit about acetone as a cleaner: https://ecolink.com/info/benefits-of-acetone-cleaner/
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Old 06-19-2019, 07:49 PM   #9
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Acetone might start dissolving the plastic parts in the vicinity, and it's flammable and toxic to breathe or get on skin. Be careful! Actually several of these products should be used outside with moving air and gloves.



Whatever penetrating oil you use, I have found keeping parts soaked for more than a couple weeks or even months with daily applications or immersed in a covered steel container has freed up things I thought were completely hopeless. Basically let it soak until the rust dissolves and one day the part moves...



I have used PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench and Kroil, can't say I prefer any one in particular, although my mechanic friend likes Kroil. I have used a couple of bio-lubes also and they seemed to work fine for easy problems. Time and tapping usually do the trick. I am not sure what relevance the test breakaway torque has to the capacity to just dissolve rust over time.


Sockets make great graduated press blocks and you can stack and beat on them safely.


If you don't have access to the back side of the bearing this trick I learned from the hugely entertaining AvE / BOLTR on YouTube is slick. Fill the shaft recess with grease and put a wadded rag over the hole. Tap the rag into the hole with a large punch and hammer, compressing the grease, and the pressure you create pushes the bearing out from the back with no damage.



And of course, reassemble everything with the correct anti-seize product. The day I removed 25-year old exhaust manifold hardware like I put it on yesterday sold me on the stuff. The special washers that help prevent the exhaust manifold from cracking won't rust solid and stop working. It will keep your wheels from rusting to the brake drums and other untoward oxidation events. https://www.globalspec.com/learnmore...eize_compounds
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:09 PM   #10
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those are some great points, thank you!
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:25 PM   #11
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Exclamation Washing Machine in a fiberglass RV??

Great discussion on penetrating oils.

But a washing machine in a fiberglass trailer? WOW!! Would that be taking "glamping" to a new level?

I now notice that Camping World and Amazon list washers & dryers but beyond Camping World’s Lavario Portable Clothes Washer and a couple of the Amazon listings, I find it incomprehensible that any of the other items would fit into a fiberglass RV. Has anyone done that??
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:52 PM   #12
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I once copied this from a sailing listserv with the author's permission. I didn't succeed at finding the original source, but I didn't try too hard either.
Machinist’s Workshop Mag™ recently published some information on various
penetrating oils that is very interesting. You might appreciate this.
The magazine reports they tested penetrates for break out torque on
rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by a professional machinist.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrates with the
control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
“scientifically rusted” environment.

*Penetrating oil .......... Break out torque*
None ........................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ..................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil .................... 106 pounds
ATF*-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix was a “home brew” mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission fluid and acetone. Note the “home brew” was better than any
commercial product in this one particular test and you can also use ATF-
lacquer thinner 50 - 50 mix. Note also that “Liquid Wrench” is almost as
good as “Kroil” for about 20% of the price.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:06 PM   #13
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On my project I used Liqiud Wrench in a spray can. I made a puller out of pvc pipe, scap steel, and thread rod with limited success. A large washer and pvc pipe worked better after lots of soak time. It took 3 days of tap, tap, tap, spray, soak, repeat, and both bearings came out. Every thing is back together and much quieter.

Unfortunately, after all that work the washer won't fit through the Trillium door.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:56 PM   #14
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When I was a kid I had a torn diaphragm in a Zenith-Stromberg (imitation SU) carburetor. The diaphragm was held in place between the aluminum piston and a steel plate with steel machine screws. When I couldn't get the screws out I went to a machine shop. They improvised a clamp on the piston and hit the screws off-center with a punch using the smallest ball peen hammer I'd ever seen. It didn't take any time. They explained that the steel had cold-formed to the aluminum. I'm not sure that that is the correct explanation, but the process worked.


Perhaps your washer needs some seismic activity.
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