demand type water heaters

[Valerie B.]

Greetings all!
I've a couple of questions.
First, the previous owner pulled the non-functioning water heater from my Trill 5500, so I'm contemplating installing (primarily as a space saving measure as well as for cost effectiveness) two 'in-line' or demand type heaters, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom to service both vanity and shower. Feasibilty?? Availability?? Any ballpark ideas as to cost??

Secondly, I'd appreciate learning any probability that my Trill leaked around/under/though the belly band. I've read somewhere that any leaking noted would probably have come, not from the belly band area, but instead from the windows. Since on close inspection, I see absolutely NO evidence that there was any leaking from the belly band area, it's my guess that a previous owner took a 'shot in the dark' and liberally applied silicone sealant and some other junk all around the entire perimeter of the belly band . To be commended for being zealous, but, I'm afraid, to be cursed when/if I have to scrape it all off. I've also read that removing and re-installing a belly band is a bearcat of a job, so I'm dreading it. Guess what I'm hoping for is some guidance which will in effect say "Remove the belly band??? Pshaw! Not necessary or recommended!" What'r my chances of that all you experts out there in EggLand?
Val, 'Trudy's Intrepid but Ingenue Owner'

[Brian B-P]

Both the cost and feasibility of demand water heaters will depend on (among other things) whether the plan is for electric or propane-fueled heaters. Val, what did you have in mind?

[Valerie B.]

Both the cost and feasibility of demand water heaters will depend on (among other things) whether the plan is for electric or propane-fueled heaters. Val, what did you have in mind?

Hi Brian,
Since most (if not all at the current time) of our 'camping' is done in parks with supplied 110V electricity, I'm relying on that. When we had our larger 24' motorhome formerly (with fully functioning water heater), I mostly used the hot water only for doing dishes anyway, so the anticipated demand isn't going to be great. Of late, I rarely cook inside my camping vehicle (a conversion van at present) since I don't want my bedding, pillows etc to smell of last week's bacon. Yuk!
Hence, most often my dishwater is heated on the propane stove outside. I'd just like to have the opportunity to draw hot water for dishes, a morning shower, a quick bedtime facewash if I choose not to trudge through the pouring rain to the campground shower facilities! Tks!

[Jim Stacey]

Hi Brian,
Since most (if not all at the current time) of our 'camping' is done in parks with supplied 110V electricity, I'm relying on that. When we had our larger 24' motorhome formerly (with fully functioning water heater), I mostly used the hot water only for doing dishes anyway, so the anticipated demand isn't going to be great. Of late, I rarely cook inside my camping vehicle (a conversion van at present) since I don't want my bedding, pillows etc to smell of last week's bacon. Yuk!
Hence, most often my dishwater is heated on the propane stove outside. I'd just like to have the opportunity to draw hot water for dishes, a morning shower, a quick bedtime facewash if I choose not to trudge through the pouring rain to the campground shower facilities! Tks!

Hey Valerie, I have been loking into the same thing for my 17 ft Boler. From what I have read so-far, the electrical requirement for these heaters is a minium of 200amps. Now I haven't checked this out as yet, only what the manufacturers brochure states. I don't think my unit has anywhere near that supply. Perhaps someone with a lot more knowledge about these things will reply. Speaking obout the band, I saw a beautiful Boler model 1650 and the owner had taken the band off, ground down the join and filled the space with fiberglass and then put a 1/2 inch band of reflective (silver) tape around the middle. I have got to say, what a look. Yours in Bolering. Jim

[Valerie B.]

Hey Valerie, I have been loking into the same thing for my 17 ft Boler. From what I have read so-far, the electrical requirement for these heaters is a minium of 200V. Now I haven't checked this out as yet, only what the manufacturers brochure states. I don't think my unit has anywhere near that supply. Perhaps someone with a lot more knowledge about these things will reply. Speaking obout the band, I saw a beautiful Boler model 1650 and the owner had taken the band off, ground down the join and filled the space with fiberglass and then put a 1/2 inch band of reflective (silver) tape around the middle. I have got to say, what a look. Yours in Bolering. Jim

Hey Jim!
I'm curious. I've never seen one of these fiberglass trailers taken apart, so can form no mental image of how the halves are joined. I suppose filling it with fiberglass would eliminate the potential for leaks through the join, now, wouldn't it?
I'm quasi-committed to keeping my Trill as original as possible (but all the while modifying her to meet OUR needs), so removing the belly band permanently isn't an option until it becomes absolutely necessary, I fear. (But, anything I can do to make her more suitable for us is OK, got it?.... I know; I know! I can rationalize myself in or out of most anything! )
If I can ever make an informed decision, I'll let you know.
ValTrill ....Trudy's Really In-experienced (or Insane) Lady wot Loves'r!

[Jim Stacey]

Hey Jim!
I'm curious. I've never seen one of these fiberglass trailers taken apart, so can form no mental image of how the halves are joined. I suppose filling it with fiberglass would eliminate the potential for leaks through the join, now, wouldn't it?
I'm quasi-committed to keeping my Trill as original as possible (but all the while modifying her to meet OUR needs), so removing the belly band permanently isn't an option until it becomes absolutely necessary, I fear. (But, anything I can do to make her more suitable for us is OK, got it?.... I know; I know! I can rationalize myself in or out of most anything! )
If I can ever make an informed decision, I'll let you know.
ValTrill ....Trudy's Really In-experienced (or Insane) Lady wot Loves'r!

Valerie, I don't blame you at all for wanting to keep your trill as close as possible to the original. There is nothing wrong with that. I am doing the same with my (new to me) Boler. Yours in Bolering. Jim

[Sandra Lair]

Valerie,
We have a tankless inline water electric water heater in our Scamp. My husband found it online and paid $75 for it. We needed it primarily for washing dishes. It works great! We have it hooked up to the water line that comes from our holding tank & the hot water comes out through the electric pump faucet, and I do mean hot! We have a bar faucet that the cold "city water" comes through, so it's easy to get just the right temp by adjusting the flow of the two faucets.

My husband replaced the original electric pump & faucet with a Shurflo that is adjustable. The inline heater works much better if you can adjust the water flow. Altogether we spent right around $100 for the whole setup. I recommend it!

Sandra

[james kent]

Hi Valerie!
We're all in the same boat[that's spelled boler] here. I have been updating the outside while the wife is doing the bed and curtain thing. The two halves of the belly-band were there to use when clamping the top and bottom sections together during assembly. Then a narrow piece of fiberglass covered the seam on the inside covered by a second piece about 4 in wide. This makes it leak free, but if you want to make sure, remove the band from the outside and get some SPOT PUTTY from the automotive section and squeeze into the crack. It's a product used to fill small holes when doing autobody repair .Stay away from anything with silicon in it. While you have the metal band off you can remove the old grunge from the metal and repolish it then just rivit it back on. It just takes time and the "Ididit" rewards are great.

[Valerie B.]

Valerie,
We have a tankless inline water electric water heater in our Scamp. My husband found it online and paid $75 for it. We needed it primarily for washing dishes. It works great! We have it hooked up to the water line that comes from our holding tank & the hot water comes out through the electric pump faucet, and I do mean hot! We have a bar faucet that the cold "city water" comes through, so it's easy to get just the right temp by adjusting the flow of the two faucets.

My husband replaced the original electric pump & faucet with a Shurflo that is adjustable. The inline heater works much better if you can adjust the water flow. Altogether we spent right around $100 for the whole setup. I recommend it!

Sandra

Thanks Sandra!
That sounds like 'egg'actly what I'm looking for. Any chance you could take a snap of your installation such as I could identify the brand name of the heater and research from there? All I've managed to locate on-line are higher than the 110V I need, and proportionately more expensive. I'm trying to get away from a space-occupying water heater, as well as obtaining something better suited to our demands.
Thanks again for your input. Now, if only my husband were of the repair/maintenance kind!

[Brian B-P]

I think that this is more practical in electric than propane, because the electric version is so much simpler. The burner in a demand heater must be much larger than it would be in a tank-type heater, because it must keep up with the rate the water is used, without taking time to catch up. With electric service normally available, workarounds acceptable when there is no power, and moderate flow demands, the demand heater approach sounds reasonable to me for this case.

The problem with domestic demand heaters is that they are normally sized for household rates of water use. Since it seems that Val is willing to settle for a modest flow rate, and not use both the shower and a hot water tap at the same time (or have two heaters), the big units are not required.

The only thing I would watch out for is to ensure that the trailer's electrical capacity is high enough. If one entire 15 amp circuit is used by the heater, and an air conditioner needs another 15 A circuit, the typical 30 amp service in our trailers is getting really marginal. It's a power budgeting issue.

[Brian B-P]

I assume that an original Trillium is constructed basically like a current Escape (which is Trillium-inspired)... the upper and lower halves are joined with a strip of fiberglass across the joint on the inside (as mentioned in a post in the Escape thread from last year). The belly band is then primarily cosmetic, to cover the unfinished joint.

The Boler (and thus Scamp) is basically the same, although the way the edges meet is different. The Boler design causes stress on the bonding strip, so they do sometimes fail at leak at points. I don't know if the original Trillium design works better.

In either case, if the joint leaks, someone might seal the trim band in attempt to stop it, causing later owners grief. My Boler has some really nasty crud applied to the top of the belly band.

[Sandra Lair]

Valerie,
It may be this weekend before I can pass along the info on our inline water heater. I'll post it as soon as I can. BTW, my husband is not terribly handy either but he did manage to install it himself!
Sandra

[Al Stansell]

I am hoping to install a radiant heat system in my Trillium floor using a propane fired tankless heater and circulating pump attached to a thermo. I would also like to use it for water to the sink - I am chewing over how to do this... perhaps something as simple as a looped system with a couple ball valves. Alec

[Sandra Lair]

Valerie,

I found the brand name on our inline water heater & a link that shows one like ours, or very much like it. Go to: http://www.lorenzetti.com.br/ing/maxiaquecedor.htm#
I still plan to post pics but I wanted to go ahead & pass this along to you.

Brian mentioned the electrical capacity needed to run this, in addition to AC, etc. We do have 50 amps in our camper, so we never have a problem with everything going at once.

Sandra

[Valerie B.]

Valerie,

I found the brand name on our inline water heater & a link that shows one like ours, or very much like it. Go to: http://www.lorenzetti.com.br/ing/maxiaquecedor.htm#
I still plan to post pics but I wanted to go ahead & pass this along to you.

Brian mentioned the electrical capacity needed to run this, in addition to AC, etc. We do have 50 amps in our camper, so we never have a problem with everything going at once.

Sandra

Hi Sandra,
Thanks for the link. Doesn't indicate dimensions anywhere that I can see. Any chance you'd be able to 'guestimate ' the measurements for me? Also. I see that it specifies '127 Volt'. Since most, if not all, of our small appliances are 120Volt, (and so I'm assuming the wiring in my Trill is 110 - 120Volt) I'm wondering if your wiring is of larger capacity; if not, has the higher voltage of the heater ever caused any sort of problem? Oh, and another thing...some of the inline heaters I've seen offered on line specify that only copper piping is to be used with the heater, 'not PVC' etc. Which did your hubby use? Thanks!
Val

[Brian B-P]

I assume that the "127 volt" specification is a typo - it wouldn't the only one on that web site. Nominal voltage supplied by power utilities varies from 110 V to 120V, and actual voltage at any moment varies even more. Electrical connectors and other devices are routinely rated at 125V to be conservative (likely including all of the AC wiring in our trailers), and on the other end of the range appliances will normally show allowed input voltage range down to 110V.

Even if the heater were designed for 127V, it would presumably just heat a little less effectively at our typical actual input voltages.

[Sandra Lair]

Valerie,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I measured the heater & the cylinder is only 4 1/2" high & about 3 1/2" across. Pretty small. Ours is attached to the faucet with clear tubing & we've never had any problem with it.
Sandra

[Neil W']

I hate to be the bearer of possible bad news, but if you look in the technical information on that heater site the heater requires a 50 amp breaker. The 50 amps would be confirmed by 5400 watts and 127 volts. Volts x amps = watts 127 x 50 = 6350 watts. A 5400 watt heater would actually draw approx. 47 amps, very high for most of our trailers. I would also like to find an inline heater but my Boler only has a 30 amp system and would mean installation of a new panel. Might still be reasonable if I decide to install a shower in the bathroom but I can do all the work myself.

[Sandra Lair]

Neil,
That's interesting. All I can tell you is that we've used the water heater numerous times with the AC running full blast & the microwave going too. Is there an electrician out there who can explain the numbers?
Sandra

[Brian B-P]

Typical "50 amp" RV electrical service is like the connection to an electric kitchen range at home: it is really two 120V AC lines, each capable of delivering 50 amps, sharing one neutral connection, plus a ground. Any appliance which needs 240 V is connected between these two lines; 120V appliances are connected to one of the lines, plus neutral. That's why the plug as four contacts (2 lines + neutral + ground).

It is possible that Sandra's trailer is wired with the water heater on 50 amp circuit, with everything else sharing the other 50 amp circuit. If everything is 120V, then the total amps taken by everything connected to the same incoming line (and operated at the same time) must not exceed 50.

This style of 50 A service can provide over three times as much power as a typical 30 A (one 120V line) setup like my Boler (120 V x 50 A x 2 circuits = 12,000 watts versus 120 V x 30A = 3,600 watts), and is appropriate for RVs with multiple air conditioners, or all-electric heating and cooking.

My first house only had 60A (x 2) service!