Door Sag/Shell Bowing Out

[cyndi H]

I'm still working on the door lock/sag issue. the new striker plate i had made doesn't work with the lock as the door doesn't shut tight enough to click on/over it. Ive already replaced the hinges with scamp and added metal support plates on all of them. I noticed that the door sag pulls the shell out and theres a 1/2 inch gap between the dinette seat and egg shell. has anyone ever replaced the square metal support rod that runs along the inside of the shell? it looks like a longer one would be stronger, possibly one that the hinges could screw into. Has anyone done this before? If i push the door up the gap closes, but it needs some reinforcement inside so it doesn't pull the shell out. thanks for the tips.

[Raya]

Hi Cyndi,

I'm too tired right now (long day grinding fiberglass - but not on a trailer) to write out a long post, but someone recently asked about this (a fellow who recently bought a yellow boler too, IIRC) and I (among others) wrote about it. Basically, you want to restore and stabilize the shape there. I think some other alternatives are better than a bar.

I wonder if you might be able to find that thread via search? If not, maybe I can look tomorrow. Right now....

[Donna D.]

Hi Cyndi,

I'm too tired right now (long day grinding fiberglass - but not on a trailer) to write out a long post, but someone recently asked about this (a fellow who recently bought a yellow boler too, IIRC) and I (among others) wrote about it. Basically, you want to restore and stabilize the shape there. I think some other alternatives are better than a bar.

This one? Boler door sag fix help needed

[cyndi H]

This one? Boler door sag fix help needed

Thank-you both very much. i havent looked yet but i'm praying it doesnt say to split the door and re-bend. i cant handle that.

[Roy in TO]

I've posted my fix on the thread Improving door fit due to body sag.

In hindsight in following the problem with other posts since my mod, two more solutions come to mind. Jean-L reported that his door fit much better after replacing the floor. So check your floors. Plus check your rivets everywhere else. I am tempted to think that attaching the door side of the body to a wooden "semi wall" like that used in many screen door mods, might just do the same thing as my fix. That is shown in the thread Raya referred to above.

Also, have a look at where the body attaches to the frame at the bottom of the door on the both sides. In some models there is a small piece of plywood between the two that comes loose, is rotted or is missing.

[cyndi H]

I've posted my fix on the thread Improving door fit due to body sag.

In hindsight in following the problem with other posts since my mod, two more solutions come to mind. Jean-L reported that his door fit much better after replacing the floor. So check your floors. Plus check your rivets everywhere else. I am tempted to think that attaching the door side of the body to a wooden "semi wall" like that used in many screen door mods, might just do the same thing as my fix. That is shown in the thread Raya referred to above.

Also, have a look at where the body attachés to the frame at the bottom of the door on the both sides. In some models there is a small piece of plywood between the two that comes loose, is rotted or is missing.

I read that, thanks. that is beyond me. maybe when i`m retired i`ll strip it down and attempt it. in the mean time, i just want the door and belly sag to be minimized enough that i can get a good fit on the door so i can have another lock striker made and put it on. A good secure lock is the #1 priority. i tightened/re-fastened the screws that go into the metal support along side the inside of the door and that got rid of the upper sag. i didn't realize it but all the screws were loose and the bottom two went right through the trailer and weren't even attached. i put 2 small washers on those but will use bigger ones and a sealant later. The gap is still there at dinette seat height to floor though. it moves in easily if i push it in at lower hinge point. i was thinking that i could possibly use raya's concept of a cable tie literally. I wonder if i could run a cable along the upper inside front of the dinette seat from the washer of the lower hinge pin to the middle edge of dinette? it could screw through the dinette. i wouldn't mind seeing a little something there if it helped. There is a wooden seat support there. i tried to adjust my hinge side seat support like in your post, but it is solidly out of place and seems to be fiberglassed in place. i just put a screw into it until i heard light cracking and stopped. only the seat seemed to move but at least they are joined now. i wonder how that cable would be? Perhaps i could use a decorative metal trim on the dinette seat to use as a support for the cable and spread the pressure out a bit? Any thoughts? Another option could be to replace the entire pole but it may be hard to find one smaller so that it will fit along side the front dinette. In the pic where the dinette support is bent is the lower hinge washer. that is where i'd like to run a cable from. does that sound crazy? i know it would add stress on the outside of the dinette seat but if the load was spread all along the seat it may be ok. i was thinking possibly a decorative trim/support mounting rod could run along side the indent that is meant for the gap wooden cover

[Raya]

I think I would still vote for "the shape," by which I mean the full-height "mini wall" like is sometimes used to attach a screen door. In other words, a very tall, narrow "half moon" shape. That, once installed, is virtually impossible for the trailer to foil, and avoids point loading.

Yes, you could fiberglass tab the lower part of the bench to the wall, but that only goes up a foot or so, and then you still have a "breaking" point where the square tubing starts. A cable was more of a theoretical suggestion, and still could easily make for point loading.

Raya

[cyndi H]

I think I would still vote for "the shape," by which I mean the full-height "mini wall" like is sometimes used to attach a screen door. In other words, a very tall, narrow "half moon" shape. That, once installed, is virtually impossible for the trailer to foil, and avoids point loading.

Yes, you could fiberglass tab the lower part of the bench to the wall, but that only goes up a foot or so, and then you still have a "breaking" point where the square tubing starts. A cable was more of a theoretical suggestion, and still could easily make for point loading.

Raya

can you direct me to a template on here, or do you perhaps have one? Making one according to the proper shape is too much for me now. once its in, how many screws would you put through the trailer in to it? 'The shape is a nice looking mini wall, but i really dont want a wall there at all if i can avoid it. would the cable from dinette edge to hinge put too much stress on the wall of the dinette seat? is that why you suggest to avoid it? hmmmm, i really dont want a wall, although i can see it would be very practical

[cyndi H]

can you direct me to a template on here, or do you perhaps have one? Making one according to the proper shape is too much for me now. once its in, how many screws would you put through the trailer in to it? 'The shape is a nice looking mini wall, but i really dont want a wall there at all if i can avoid it. would the cable from dinette edge to hinge put too much stress on the wall of the dinette seat? is that why you suggest to avoid it? hmmmm, i really dont want a wall, although i can see it would be very practical

What about a floor to ceiling metal tubing like is there now? same idea, only smaller to run in front of lower dinette as well. I'm not sure if i could find smaller, but may be worth a look.

[Raya]

Hi Cyndi,

There would be many ways to address the problem. They each have their pros and cons (as you are discovering), and some probably address it better than others.

In general terms, what you want to avoid is a lot of stress in one small place. That tends to either not work, or to start breaking things that weren't broken before. You want to think in terms of spreading any loads that exist or that you induce (backing plates, no "hinge" points, etc.)

I don't mean to sound vague, but I'm hesitant to recommend a specific way (besides the shape, which it sounds like you aren't up for making, and don't really want anyway if you can avoid it), just because I don't have eyes and hands on your trailer. I can't tell from here how much of the problem is due to body sag (squashed balloon), door sag (core trouble), or etc.

I know that you just want your door to close and lock though - I'm sure it's frustrating to try to figure out how to fix it when you're not sure what to do, and I hope we are helping. But it is probably going to take a certain amount of work and calculation to get it just right. I have a feeling that is why you see so many hasps and padlocks on older eggs.

Raya

[cyndi H]

Hi Cyndi,

There would be many ways to address the problem. They each have their pros and cons (as you are discovering), and some probably address it better than others.

In general terms, what you want to avoid is a lot of stress in one small place. That tends to either not work, or to start breaking things that weren't broken before. You want to think in terms of spreading any loads that exist or that you induce (backing plates, no "hinge" points, etc.)

I don't mean to sound vague, but I'm hesitant to recommend a specific way (besides the shape, which it sounds like you aren't up for making, and don't really want anyway if you can avoid it), just because I don't have eyes and hands on your trailer. I can't tell from here how much of the problem is due to body sag (squashed balloon), door sag (core trouble), or etc.

I know that you just want your door to close and lock though - I'm sure it's frustrating to try to figure out how to fix it when you're not sure what to do, and I hope we are helping. But it is probably going to take a certain amount of work and calculation to get it just right. I have a feeling that is why you see so many hasps and padlocks on older eggs.

Raya

I would make a wall, just think making the template is too much. getting the wood and having it cut is enough for me. I was thinking of a rod or some type of decorative support to use as a backing plate to run along the groove in the dinette seat, then the cable that runs from the hinge would have it's weight distributed along it. hmmmm, it sounds plausible. if it can be supported on the shell wall the load spread along the seat should be ok. I'm not sure about the door. it is warped open at bottom but i think its just lost its curve a bit. i dont think it has water damage. Another thought i had was to make another curved metal support, either full length or just to fill in the bottom gap. it's pretty good now i put washers in the upper holes. the only gap i have now is the lower part just above the bottom hinge to floor, which can be pushed in just needs something to push it against and screw it to.

[Roy in TO]

I would make a wall, just think making the template is too much.

The closet on the other side of the door has the exact shape for the template.

The "wall" does not have to go all the way to the ceiling. Drop a plumb line down from where the wall curves to the ceiling, if it fall just inside the door at the bottom - that's all you need.

Look at some screen door mods. Gord100 provided the best description for a Trillium, the same idea can be carried over to a boler. Many, many have.
http://www.antitomato.com/trailer/screendoor.cfm

[Roy in TO]

Con shows a screen door mod on a boler here:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=37748

And if you go to his webshots page:
http://community.webshots.com/user/c...host=community
The entire screen door mod is shown on pictures 147 - 182

Ya know Cindy, very rarely are there step by step instructions for each thing here. Though these trailers may all look the same to you, there were design changes from year to year and plant to plant. The trick to all of this is to look at what other people have done and ask, can I do this to mine? Why or why not? Is there a way for me to do it better. That's half the fun of restoring these things.

And if you are really desperate, you can do what the previous owner had done to mine. That is run an eye bolt through the body on either side of the door, then run a round pipe through the eyes as shown here:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...st&id=19035

Even after fixing my door, I kept it because we are not in the greatest of neighbourhoods and one only needs a simple tools to undo the nuts on the door hinges from the outside circumventing your lock.

Once you hit a meet or two with camera in hand, you'll have more ideas than time to do it all.

[Roy in TO]

Donna D. posted a PDF document that explains how to make a screen door in this thread:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=27790

[cyndi H]

Donna D. posted a PDF document that explains how to make a screen door in this thread:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/in...howtopic=27790

Thanks. i will go over these later when i am fit for research. My #1 problem is exhaustion. I have home/trailer reno burnout. I can easily see my future trailer fixes being a roll of duct tape. (that's one theme i'd like to see- a trailer wrapped in duct tape) That bar on your trailer freaks me out. i would be scared someone would lock me in. That's good to know about the closet door side, easy, i can handle that. someone was giving me scribing instructions and i was tired before they were done explaining it. i just ordered new edge trim today As soon as its on and i have minimized/stabilized the lower bulge i can do a final template of the the striker plate and get it made in stainless. On the bright side, the door fit has never been better. i just want the lower bulge dealt with before i finalize the lock striker dimensions. Ive already wrecked the last one i had made.

[Larry&Carrie]

Something like this?

[Roy in TO]

That bar on your trailer freaks me out. i would be scared someone would lock me in.

We don't leave it lying around. It actually locks into place by my propane tanks under the tongue box.

[Roy in TO]

Something like this?

Pretty much, I had them weld the tabs on too. Then found out I didn't need them because the spacing between the bars was the right width.

[cyndi H]

Something like this?

that looks way better than just one tube. i'll check on cost of that. Thanks everyone for all your help

[Raya]

Cyndi,

I can understand the project burnout. At that point you're just like "Give me a solution wherein I don't have to do anything but just put it on!" LOL

If you do use the closet wall to make a "shape wall" pattern (which is a good idea, btw, as that wall is unlikely to be distorted), you might like to use the "tick stick" method. I'll try to describe it painlessly.

What you do is cut out a piece of paper or foam board or thin wood or whatever (rigid is better) in an approximation of the right shape. You can have large (inches) gaps at the edges. Then you tape it to the sidewall of the closet.

Now, make a "tick stick." This can be as simple as a popsicle stick with a point on one end. It just has to be flat and have a pointy end. What you do is place the stick on the pattern so that the pointer is right on the edge of the closet that you are trying to copy. So in other words, the "fat" end of the stick is on your paper, and the pointy end is right where you want your "good" wall to be. Now just trace around the back part of the stick that is on the paper. It doesn't have to be the whole stick; just the back part (the front and pointy end will run off the paper).

Now, do that in a bunch of different locations, always with the pointy end in a place where you want your new piece to emulate the shape.

When you are done you will have a piece of paper/foam/wood with a whole bunch of random looking "back end of arrows" tracings on it.

Now you tape that paper/foam/wood onto your "good" new piece of wood. Then you put the pointer down so that it fits in all the tracings, and this time put a dot at the very tip of the pointer, on the new material. Do this for each place you traced the pointer on the paper, and then you can connect the dots and, Voila!, you have your shape. Of course you also need to cut the opposite edge (straight/vertical) where you want it to end on the inside of the trailer.

I hope this makes sense; if I find a photo or drawing I will post it. As you can imagine, tick-sticks are very useful on boats, where you have all kinds of crazy curves and shapes.

Another way is to take some narrow strips of thin wood (something like cheap "door skin" plywood) and hot glue them together in an approximate shape (it can be "square" and angle-y). Then tape that shape up to the closet wall and take other small strips of thin wood (like, say, 5" long) and hot glue them onto the main stick like "fingers" that reach out to the edges of the trailer where your "good" wall shape is. You end up with something that looks a bit like an inside-out fish skeleton, but it works.

With either of these you can then use a flexible batten (long strip of wood) to connect your marks in a fair curve. I might make the first "good" pattern out of another scrap and then test the fit; then make the final one. Or, another way is to make the "good" one the first time, but have extra material on the "back" side (the good, straight edge). Then put your newly cut, nearly perfect new shape up against the closet wall and scribe the edge for a perfect fit, then trim it. Then you can cut your final straight edge on the "back" side (facing into the trailer).

To scribe, you just tape (again!) the nearly perfect new piece up on the closet wall, as close to the edge as you can, then take a pencil and tape a small block of wood to it (or put a washer around it, or anything to space it out just far enough to make a mark on even your least fitting section). Then "run it around" the curve with the block or washer on the outside wall and the pencil point on the good new piece. That should allow you to trim to the mark for a good fit.

Raya