Ethanol or Proplene Glycol

[Tamid]

I've been using ethanol based winter anti-freeze in my trailers for years with no apparant side effect. Just readying that it is no good for metal. I leave some sitting in the faucets and water pump and there may be other metal parts as well. Trying to get myself educated on proplene glycol based anit-freeze. Has anyoine had experience with both or have some goodcomparative literature I can read up on? Thanks.

[Chester Taje]

I've been using ethanol based winter anti-freeze in my trailers for years with no apparant side effect. Just readying that it is no good for metal. I leave some sitting in the faucets and water pump and there may be other metal parts as well. Trying to get myself educated on proplene glycol based anit-freeze. Has anyoine had experience with both or have some goodcomparative literature I can read up on? Thanks.

I use same type. I have never had a problem. Where did you read this info at?

[Tamid]

All the ethanol based anti-freeze jugs I've looked at indicate it can be corrosive to metal and shouldn't be used on metal parts in the plumbing system and can dry out the rubber gaskets. I've been checking various RV dealer sites about winterizing and they claim the same. Some will only use propylene glycol.

[DonDeutsch]

When you all are saying ethanol base you are refering to ethylene glycol right?


"The major danger from ethylene glycol is ingestion as it is somewhat toxic with LD50 = 1.4 g/kg for humans. Due to its sweet taste, children and animals will sometimes consume large quantities of it if given access to antifreeze. Upon ingestion, ethylene glycol is oxidized to glycolic acid which is, in turn, oxidized to oxalic acid, which is toxic. It and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart, and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal.[6]"

[Raya]

I would heartily recommend using propylene glycol. It's non-toxic (don't drink it as a beverage, of course)*. Ethylene glycol is toxic.

(I don't know ethanol anti-freeze.)

Raya

*That said, if you have a relatively mild climate (i.e. it freezes but not crazy low), you might consider using vodka for potable water systems. We use this on boats in the mid-Atlantic because the propylene glycol can leave foaminess and a bit of an aftertaste. It does get down in the teens (F), but not much below that.

PS: We do use ethylene glycol in engines, but I'm talking about the water systems on a trailer, which presumably has no engine.

PPS: IMPORTANT: As Don notes, ethylene glycol has the scary and dangerous combination of being very delicious to pets and also deadly toxic. BE SURE not to leave ANY ethylene glycol where pets can get to it.

[Penney H. & Mike E.]

Gasoline in urban areas contains 10% ethenol to reduce pollution. It is a type of alcohol - and alcohol will reduce the freezing point of water. Vodka is not 100% alcohol. What proof does your tailor prefer?

Mike

[Pat B Ohio]

If you use vodka, is it an olive or a onion you need to add?

[Tamid]

Ethylene glycol is used as anti-freeze in vehicles. It is not for the plumbing systems of RV's or other. However there is an Ethanol based plumbing anit-freeze that my first post refers to. As for vodka the proof is too low. Why not try pernod? I have a bottle that is 70% proof. You could flambe right out of the faucet!

[Tamid]

I would heartily recommend using propylene glycol. It's non-toxic (don't drink it as a beverage, of course)*. Ethylene glycol is toxic.

(I don't know ethanol anti-freeze.)

Raya

*That said, if you have a relatively mild climate (i.e. it freezes but not crazy low), you might consider using vodka for potable water systems. We use this on boats in the mid-Atlantic because the propylene glycol can leave foaminess and a bit of an aftertaste. It does get down in the teens (F), but not much below that.

PS: We do use ethylene glycol in engines, but I'm talking about the water systems on a trailer, which presumably has no engine.

PPS: IMPORTANT: As Don notes, ethylene glycol has the scary and dangerous combination of being very delicious to pets and also deadly toxic. BE SURE not to leave ANY ethylene glycol where pets can get to it.

Raya,

I understand that after about -25 C the propylene glycol can get somewhat mushy, like it is starting to freeze but the bursting point of often rated to -50 C depending on the brand and concentration. As for after taste the advertisement on some sites indicates there is no taste. Have you tried it and can you taste it?

[Chester Taje]

Just to confirm what I use.

http://www.recochem.com/en/index.php/produ...ne/item/premium

On my Jug it says all metal pipes including copper and plastics.

[Tamid]

Just to confirm what I use.

http://www.recochem.com/en/index.php/produ...ne/item/premium

On my Jug it says all metal pipes including copper and plastics.

Chester,

Just to clarify your first message. You are using a propylene glycol based product not an ethonal based product.
Correct? I've been using the ethanol based product and was thinking of switching ovet to propylene glycol based on what I've been hearing.

[Chester Taje]

Tamid
The jug says Quote---Premium . Super RV Plumbing Antifreeze End Quote.

On Caution label it says Contents may catch fire.(CONTAINS ETHANOL.) Do not smoke. Do not get in eyes. Use only in well ventilated area. Keep away from flames, such as pilot light , and any object that sparks, such as electric motors.


Interesting Caution Label

PS---No Mention of propylene glycol

[Gina D.]

propylene glycol is an FDA approved ingredient for human consumption in many foods (Lots, actually) as a moisturizing agent. Go check your toothpaste tube.. its in there.

The only reason I know this is because I am Electronic Cigarette user, and PG is the ingredient used to actually create the "Smoke" or vapor effect (PG is used in Fog machines which spew the vapor on hundreds of folks at a time) You can be darned sure I checked, double checked and triple checked that PG was safe before I started using one.

I am not an antifreeze expert, but if it was PG based, I would have no problem using it, at least for the health aspect.

[Tamid]

Tamid
The jug says Quote---Premium . Super RV Plumbing Antifreeze End Quote.

On Caution label it says Contents may catch fire.(CONTAINS ETHANOL.) Do not smoke. Do not get in eyes. Use only in well ventilated area. Keep away from flames, such as pilot light , and any object that sparks, such as electric motors.


Interesting Caution Label

PS---No Mention of propylene glycol

Chester,

Went back to the link you provided and the advertising blurb says the product is a combination of propylene glycol and ethanol. Interesting mixture. Instead of making a totally non-toxic product they've decided to make a half toxic product.

[Chester Taje]

Chester,

Went back to the link you provided and the advertising blurb says the product is a combination of propylene glycol and ethanol. Interesting mixture. Instead of making a totally non-toxic product they've decided to make a half toxic product.

Kinda makes you wonder. I think the lesson here is to Really read your labels and know what it says and means.

The info on jug does not say anything about propylene glycol, but as you say its on there web site.

[Raya]

Tamid,

The typical propylene glycol that is stacked up by the pallet load in late fall is rated to -50 Fahrenheit. But they also make "100 below" -- it's just not as commonly displayed.

I use the -50 in places that are open but might still have water in them that I don't want to freeze (say, in the bilge of a boat where if it did just start to freeze it would simply expand and there would be no real damage). But where it counts, I use the -100. That's not because it will get below -50 where I am (or was...), but because the possibility exists in pipes and the like for the solution to become slightly diluted with existing water.

Raya

[Bill MacDermod]

This topic is interesting as living in So. Florida we don't have to worry about winterizing but we do have many Canadians down here for the winter. I have been in conversations with some who claim to just drain their water in their homes and then blow the whole system out with compressed air, no mention of anti freeze. Is this not a possibility???? seems like it would be a lot less work.
All that being said I am originally a New Englander and although we have camped forever we never had a camper with running water back then. Started out in a mobile home with many freeze ups though. Ahhh the good ole days.............not

[Donna D.]

I have been in conversations with some who claim to just drain their water in their homes and then blow the whole system out with compressed air, no mention of anti freeze. Is this not a possibility???? seems like it would be a lot less work.

It's discussed in the third paragraph here: HOW-TO “Winterize Your Fiberglass Travel Trailer”. Perhaps the rub, is it requires something to push the air... like a compressor?

[Bill K]

Yes it can be done, BUT you have to be very carefull to get ALL the water out.
I did it this way in my boat with no problems but then one year a line froze and broke.

I now blow the line then put the pink stuff in just the lines.

Bill K

I have been in conversations with some who claim to just drain their water in their homes and then blow the whole system out with compressed air, no mention of anti freeze. Is this not a possibility???? seems like it would be a lot less work.

[Raya]

Yep, yep, agreed. When I lived up north, we used to winterize docks (think of long water lines running out to each slip) by blowing the lines out with compressed air; you do have to be careful to get all the water out, and have no possibility for more water to leak/come in and settle in a low area.

We winterized boats the same way, but with a twist: We drained the system, then put in the anti-freeze, then drained that. That way, it was mostly air, yet any low or un-drainable areas would have a pool of antifreeze in them. (This used less anti-freeze, which makes a difference when you are doing hundreds of boats.)

Raya