Fantastic Fan - Scamp - Screws or Rivets? - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-24-2009, 10:29 PM   #1
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Does anyone have a factory installed Fantistic Fan in their Scamp. Did they use screws or Rivets to attach it to the roof?

I bought a fan and have to get up the nerve to cut the hole! I have a photo of a factory installed fan attached - note they do not use the trim kit that come with the fan, just molding on the main housing. Wonder what is holding the molding in place?

Carol
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:13 AM   #2
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Here is what I did with my 13' Boler. I have yet to finish off the molding around the inside edge. Not sure if the Scamps are exactly the same but this may give you some ideas.

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Old 04-25-2009, 10:56 AM   #3
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Carol,

The factory rivets the fan in place. I just replaced my old fan with a new fantastic fan that I purchase on my way past the factory. I had to drill out every rivet. I then put some plumbers tape (a thin putty) on the underside of the fantastic flange. I put it in place and added all the necessary rivets. Once the fan was attached I took some white caulk and ran a bead around the edge of the fan and put a dobble of caulk on each rivet. That's how the factory installs fans.

So what I'd do if I were you is measure the exact size of the hole you need. Becareful not to cut it too large as the hole aren't very far from the cutout. It's better to cut it on the small side, you can always make slight adjustments to enlarge the hole. Set the fan in place and drill the holes. Then lift the fan out and add the plumbers tape, rivet in place and add caulk to the edge & all rivets.

As for the inside. Order the wood trim from the factory. The four pieces come with 2 holes drilled in each. Simply hold each piece in place and mark the holes to be drilled. I can't remember if they sent screws, if not just use short screws that go through the wood and the thin trim of the fan. Heave ho the trim that came with the fan.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:01 PM   #4
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They use rivets at the factory because it is best for them, in a large-scale manufacturing plant that needs to produce a product in a competitive market. They are quick and only require one person. That's not to say that rivets are bad, but your decision factors are not the same as theirs, so you have other options (including the same kind of rivets).

1) You could use sealed rivets; they don't have the potential leak hole so also don't need the dab of caulk on them.

2) You could use fasteners such as machine screws. These require either someone on the inside and outside, or an arm reached in (if that's possible). They have the advantage of being removable/replaceable/tightenable, although it's not a huge big deal since you don't replace the fan that often.

Either way, in my opinion, you don't need, or necessarily want, an extra rim of caulk around the outside of the flange. In my experience they do not stop leaks, and they're just one more thing to trap dirt, and to have to be dealt with when it's time to re-seal the flange (which you will have to do when it's time, whether there is caulk on the outside or not).

I like the butyl putty tape over the "plain" putty tape.

I'm considering a Fantastic Fan. The considerations I have to think about are that the blades block about 50% of the available air if you are not using the fan, the fan draws a fair bit of amperage, and is there a noise factor (I've never heard one so don't know how noisy they are). My other option is a passive vent and a low draw marine fan nearby, that could swivel up into the fan opening or around to face me.

Maybe I should start a thread...

Raya


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Old 04-25-2009, 08:40 PM   #5
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Oops , I said Plumbers putty and should have said Butyl tape. I had used Plumbers putty for something else.

I added the caulk around the outside flange because that's what the factory had done with my original fan and all other outside ports, doors and vents.


Raya,
The 3 speed reversible Fantastic fan is quiet. The original fan in my Scamp was a Ventline 2 speed reversible and very noisy. I'm amazed at the difference. I can't testify to air blockage with the Fantastic fan which has a lot more blades but there was no problem with air flow with the Ventline. I just haven't been out in the Scamp much since I installed the Fantastic fan.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:53 PM   #6
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Joy,

Thanks for the input on the fan - it's much appreciated. With a regular fan, if you decide it's too noisy you can just use another one, but once you install one in the roof... well, it's nice to get your review in advance

I just wish there were a way to move the blades out of the way when I don't want/need to use electricity, but that would probably be complex for them to make (and probably more and more people have no power issues as they camp in places with full hookups or have truck engines running every eight hours -- I saw they sell them to truckers too).

Raya
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:10 PM   #7
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When cutting the hole for the fan, be sure to make the hole in the rat fur much smaller than needed so you will have enough to tuck under the trim. What I did was use the FF template on the roof and drilled four small holes at the corners (Being VERY sure to only go through the fiberglass -- You DON'T want material wrapping around the drill bit!!) -- Then I put toothpicks or nails down through the holes to mark them on the inside for cutting the rat fur. Once you have the hole in roof done, it is easy to use rivets or nuts/bolts, reaching up through the fan frame to get to the outside fasteners.

Also, I drilled four small drain holes in the corners of the vent crank knob because the hollow side is up and if left open in rain, you will get a dump of water right down your arm when you go to close it.

Hardest part was getting the wires under the rat fur to the FF -- I used a small electrician's fish tape to poke along between the FG and Reflectix and tapped into the light wires that run in the cabinet under a piece of tape.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:11 AM   #8
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Carol,

The factory rivets the fan in place. I just replaced my old fan with a new fantastic fan that I purchase on my way past the factory. I had to drill out every rivet. I then put some plumbers tape (a thin putty) on the underside of the fantastic flange. I put it in place and added all the necessary rivets. Once the fan was attached I took some white caulk and ran a bead around the edge of the fan and put a dobble of caulk on each rivet. That's how the factory installs fans.

So what I'd do if I were you is measure the exact size of the hole you need. Becareful not to cut it too large as the hole aren't very far from the cutout. It's better to cut it on the small side, you can always make slight adjustments to enlarge the hole. Set the fan in place and drill the holes. Then lift the fan out and add the plumbers tape, rivet in place and add caulk to the edge & all rivets.

As for the inside. Order the wood trim from the factory. The four pieces come with 2 holes drilled in each. Simply hold each piece in place and mark the holes to be drilled. I can't remember if they sent screws, if not just use short screws that go through the wood and the thin trim of the fan. Heave ho the trim that came with the fan.
THANKS Joy for all the good advise & detail! I did send an e-mail to the factory asking if I can order the trim but never heard back. Will try again. Now I just have to get the nerve up to cut the hole!
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:15 AM   #9
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When cutting the hole for the fan, be sure to make the hole in the rat fur much smaller than needed so you will have enough to tuck under the trim. What I did was use the FF template on the roof and drilled four small holes at the corners (Being VERY sure to only go through the fiberglass -- You DON'T want material wrapping around the drill bit!!) -- Then I put toothpicks or nails down through the holes to mark them on the inside for cutting the rat fur. Once you have the hole in roof done, it is easy to use rivets or nuts/bolts, reaching up through the fan frame to get to the outside fasteners.

Also, I drilled four small drain holes in the corners of the vent crank knob because the hollow side is up and if left open in rain, you will get a dump of water right down your arm when you go to close it.

Hardest part was getting the wires under the rat fur to the FF -- I used a small electrician's fish tape to poke along between the FG and Reflectix and tapped into the light wires that run in the cabinet under a piece of tape.
Thanks Pete - you always cover the little stuff that I would never think of doing!
What is the best thing to use to cut out the figerglass? Which tool? What type of blade?

The wires for me should not be to hard as their is currently a light in the spot where the fan is going to go.

Carol


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Old 04-26-2009, 03:24 PM   #10
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I borrowed my neighbor's SawZAll, but you can use a RotoZip, jigsaw, Dremel tool, etc. After I cut the rat fur and Reflectix out of the way, I drilled two larger holes at opposite corners, sized for the saw blade, and cut two ways from each hole. Get someone to hold a vacuum cleaner inside while you are cutting or loosely tape some plastic inside to catch the FG dust -- Wear eye protection!!
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:29 PM   #11
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I know that the Fantastic Fan tech recommend using the white gasket (supplied with fan)under the fan and not butyl tape. And then caulking around the outside of the flange and over each screw/rivet. I really don't think it matters should you want to use butyl tape, but that's what they told me.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:18 PM   #12
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I used the gasket -- It might just be that the gasket deforms properly and has no potential for seams (butyl tape can be installed improperly).

BTW, since I was using SS nuts/bolts (I got a good deal on them) and my Scamp's roof has some curves to it, I treated it like installing a head gasket, starting with the center bolts and working my way to the outside bolts, tightening in several progressively tighter sequences -- Probably overkill, but what the heck...

Torque sequence; follow the numbers
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:25 AM   #13
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I'm considering a Fantastic Fan. The considerations I have to think about are that the blades block about 50% of the available air if you are not using the fan, the fan draws a fair bit of amperage, and is there a noise factor (I've never heard one so don't know how noisy they are). My other option is a passive vent and a low draw marine fan nearby, that could swivel up into the fan opening or around to face me.

Maybe I should start a thread...

Raya
Thanks Raya for your help & comments. Re the air space. On the Scamp there is already a much larger escape roof vent that does not have a fan in it that sits just ahead of the Fantastic Fan that I can use on days I just want air and no fan. Petty happy with the noise level - not as noisey as the portable 12V fan I have that can be moved about or the AC. Suspect I will use it more than the other two options in the future.

Now I just need to go someplace HOT to see how well it really works! Hummm got me thinking of hooking up and head south today! Trying to come up with a good reason not to. LOL

Carol
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:35 AM   #14
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I used the gasket -- It might just be that the gasket deforms properly and has no potential for seams (butyl tape can be installed improperly).

BTW, since I was using SS nuts/bolts (I got a good deal on them) and my Scamp's roof has some curves to it, I treated it like installing a head gasket, starting with the center bolts and working my way to the outside bolts, tightening in several progressively tighter sequences -- Probably overkill, but what the heck...

Torque sequence; follow the numbers
Thanks Pete. Got it cut out - no problem fits tight. Got the holes drilled just ran out of time to secure it. Todays project.

Are you saying that you just used the gasket and not the butyle tape? I have both so now I am wondering which way to go.

Carol
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