Frozen holding tanks and water heater...

[flyplain]

Scamp does sell a replacemement for $265 plus shipping... and you do have a few months before camping season to save up for it. Honestly better the water heater then the tanks imho.

Well slow down, thar, kind sir... are you sayin' my water heater tank IS cracked for CERTAIN? I really want to gain a fuller "picture" of the underside of this system, so if anybody can paint one for me, I'd be grateful.

Us lowly songwriters don't come across $265 easily, so I'm still hoping there is a connection of some sort that is repairable for, well, $2.00?

Thanks for your concern, regardless.

[Robin G]

Doug, I have been following your saga and just wanted to say, Job well done thus far! That was a lot of work. But I am sure you saved your self a lot of heart ache next spring from lot's more damage.



I can't think of a Scamp hot water heater that I have payed attention to so I don't know for sure ( doesn't it have outside access?), but if it's like a Casita hot water heater it comes out from the outside of the trailer.
My friend drilled out the rivets, unsealed the chalk, unhooked a couple of lines and pulled it right out.


Hope yours isn't split open, but will say from experience it doesn't take a lot of water in the tank to freeze and crack it. I know because I didn't get my hot water tank correctly drained a few years ago and it blew open . But I had winterized so I know there wasn't much water left to do so much damage. I didn't find mine till spring so I am sure it froze/thawed several times that winter..... Hope your luckier than I was.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I just scanned and uploaded my Scamp Owner's Manual to my web sit. You can down load it here.

Moderators---- Feel free do down load and add to the documents section.

Byron, I just uploaded the manual. I had to optimize it as the original was 19 megs!

[Hambone]

I would say its split/cracked, no fittings on bottom of tank.........removes from outside, drill out rivets, undo water/propane lines and pull out

[flyplain]

I like that word, "saga"... looked it up online and discovered two definitions:

1. A prose narrative... of historic or legendary figures and events of the heroic age...

2. A long detailed account.

Hahaha... I guess mine is number two... and the saga continues...

One of the last things I did to the Scamp yesterday evening was drain out some, but not all, of the pink RV anti-freeze from the rear (grey water) tank. My logic in leaving some in was just that since it won't freeze it can't hurt anything, and it might even protect the drain valve mechanism a little.

But since I am a bit of a scientist (suffering from a HUGE learning curve) I purposefully left the pail of pink fluid drained from the grey water tank on my front porch to see if it might solidify overnight.

Unfortunately, at exactly zero degrees Fahrenheit, it is rock solid... so I checked the camper... I had poured straight RVA down the sink drain, so the trap SHOULD be okay... same with the shower drain... the toilet "ball" has a little pink fluid around it, and it IS frozen, though the ball function still works fine.

It seems the harshest aspect of my learning curve here is that RV anti-freeze is nothing at all like automotive anti-freeze... with the latter, almost ANY ratio mixed with water will prevent freezing at zero degrees. Evidently with the former, 80% to 90% anti-freeze is not good enough. 100% is required.

I did consider this factor while following the winterization steps last night, and thought I had achieved my goal of 100%. Well, I KNOW that in many of the lines, and at least in the fresh water pump, there is pure RVA. But in the grey water tank this must not be the case, and since the small amount of pink fluid surrounding the top of the toilet ball appears partially frozen, I am thinking the line running to the toilet may have some water mixed in still.

Do I need to crank up my heater again today? I really have nothing better to do on Christmas, so I might just go out and do a re-enactment of yesterday... hahaha...

Regarding whether the water heater tank is cracked or not, I am afraid my guess is yes. Unless there is some mysterious line connection directly underneath the tank, I just don't know where else the fluid could be coming from when I open the inlet valve.

That said, if anybody knows exactly what the physical layout is on the underside of these tanks, and can offer me some hope, I'm listening...

[flyplain]

no fittings on bottom of tank...

Sorry, I read that after I had submitted my last post. Bummer.

removes from outside, drill out rivets, undo water/propane lines and pull out

Sounds easy enough, but will probably wait until it warms up to 10 degrees or so above zero.

So do you replace all the rivets with sheet metal type screws? Also, does anybody know of a camper "salvage yard" in MN/WI? I know there are campers that suffer various types of severe damage and are then "parted out"... so I just need to determine exactly what make/model my water heater is, and go from there... might have to tackle that after I go back to China and down to Thailand/Laos.

Tomorrow it will be almost exactly 100 degrees warmer in Bangkok than inside my Scamp... hahaha...

[Darwin Maring]

Someone said: Some persons on here recommend using open flame torches. A questionable practice at best.

If the water heater is Propane, there is a fire box inside and thawing out with a hand torch will not be dangerous at all. Just remove the drain plug and place the fire end of the torch in the fire box and hold it there until the water is drained.

[David B.]

I would remove the bench seating area over the water heater (why would one want a hot water heater if the water is hot), in order to better visualize where the water is actually coming from. All that is needed to do this is to remove the cushions, remove the screws along the wall and the ones inside the compartment where your feet would be as if you were sitting down on it. The unit should just lift off, revealing everything (water lines, connections, water heater). If it is a cracked water heater, then you will have to remove the waterlines and gas line (and electric wires if any), before going to the outside of your trailer to remove the screws or rivets. The heater may have some sticky caulking between the body & the heater, but otherwise it should just pull straight out. Good luck and keep us all posted.

[flyplain]

I went out to take a quick look at how to remove the bench seating, but it's just too cold for me to feel very motivated at the moment.

My understanding is that the water heater tank has only three "holes" in it... the drain, the water inlet, and the water outlet. All these are easily visible.

So, if I keep the drain plug installed, and then introduce just a little RVA into the tank via the inlet hole, ANY immediate showing of pink fluid outside the tank would prove it is ruptured, right? I THINK this is basically what I did yesterday, but I feel like I want to do it again, just to torture myself a little more... hahaha...

Seriously, if I KNOW the tank is shot, then I would start looking immediately for a replacement, so I'd have more time to find the best possible deal I can. So far it appears that buying directly from Scamp is the cheapest, unless I can find one in the used market.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by flyplain

Since I am new to this forum, somebody please let me know if being too loquacious is against policy....

If being loquacious resulted in getting your knuckles rapped some of us would have pretty sore knuckles

Great effort to date and all things considered its turned out pretty well. Another way to pinpoint the leak would be to remove the inlet hose, plug it and pressurize the line. In that case you would hope to see a leak from a cracked water line. Better that than the hot water tank. If the waterline is OK then I'd try pressurizing the tank and observe.

As others have said, there's nothing under or out of sight on the tank that would normally leak.

Don't know if you saw the post about the Scamp manual etc. but the trailers do come with the factory manual and all the installation guides for all the installed equipment. It would be handy to look for them and put them in a binder for reference.

There is only one rule on this board. Those heading off to climates much warmer than ours aren't allowed to share.

Ron

[glamourpets]

The following link may be useful if you need to embark on a quest for a used hot water heater.

RV Salvage/Surplus Yards (List) Updated 12/04/12 - RV Forums - myRVparks.com

If I were replacing a hot water tank, I would strongly consider one of the tankless systems. I haven't studied it enough to consider which one is "the best." Here is an example.

Tankless Hot Water Heater RV / Camper Portable Propane Gas 2 GPM Marey | eBay

[glamourpets]

The concern with frozen water is that the water expands. The expanded water/ice can potentially split and damage plumbing components. What are the expansion properties of the RV antifreeze? If expansion is minimal, perhaps it doesn't matter that its frozen? It is mixed with a little water so.....

[Mike Magee]

If it is ruined, the cheapest fix is to bypass the thing and not use it. Just heat water on the stove for washing etc. All you lose is convenience... and hot showers.

There is a huge rv salvage in sw missouri, just off I-44 not far from Joplin.

Hearing about your pink stuff freezing is scary. Glad I live farther south! My fresh tank simply will not drain the last gallon, so the best I can obtain is a weak mixture. Makes me wonder if some 100 proof vodka would do bettter! Except that may harm the pump seals....

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I just scanned and uploaded my Scamp Owner's Manual to my web sit. You can down load it here.

Moderators---- Feel free do down load and add to the documents section.

It may be that since Scamp's still in business and offers a manual (free) at its own site, there could be a copyright problem with uploading it here.

I believe the same is true of Casita...

But perhaps permission could be obtained from those manufacturers, as has been done in the case of the Escape. Not that anybody's uploaded that manual yet...still, the site did get permission to do so!

Francesca

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It may be that since Scamp's still in business and offers a manual (free) at its own site, there could be a copyright problem with uploading it here.

I believe the same is true of Casita...

But perhaps permission could be obtained from those manufacturers, as has been done in the case of the Escape. Not that anybody's uploaded that manual yet...still, the site did get permission to do so!

Francesca

I don't think copyright is anything to be concerned about. There's no indication in the manual about their intention to protect their copyright. The current manual is free to download from Scamptrailers site. HERE
If this site's owner is concerned then maybe they should call Kent.

[stevebaz]

On my scamp the water tank drain is towards the hitch end of the tank you can get most of the water out by lowering the tongue as low as you can angling the tank twords the drain with the valve open.
as for your water tank any leak on top is running to the bottom under the insulation so the leak could be anywhere. If the tank is split remember its aluminium any heliarc welder could weld up the split in a jiffy much cheaper than 300 bucks you just have to get it out and taken to a weld shop. As long as it isnt cracked through a threaded fitting bung welding is easy.

[flyplain]

Just heat water on the stove for washing etc. All you lose is convenience... and hot showers.

Well, it's a very long story, but having a place to take a "hot shower" is one of the primary reasons I bought this Scamp. Sounds peculiar, I know...

Anyway, I like the idea of a tankless water heater, but after quite a lot of research I still have not discovered whether this is the best approach for a 13ft Scamp. Suggestions based upon actual experience would be really appreciated, although maybe that is a whole new thread.

When, or shall I say IF, a day comes along where the temperature rises to 30 degrees above zero Fahrenheit or higher, I intend to introduce a pint or two of straight RV anti-freeze directly into the inlet for the water heater tank, with the drain plug installed. If pink appears on the rear floor, that would convince me there is a crack in the tank itself, and there could be no more hoping the leak is from some mysterious line connection.

If such becomes the case, then I will remove the entire apparatus and look into the suggestion of having the tank welded. Any arguments?

Also, can anybody tell me if all the rivets can just be replaced with some sort of self-tapping sheet metal type screws?

I'm getting frustrated with the cold already, and there are still four months left before any water around here will start to move again. Next year at this time I might just take that suggested trip to Florida... with my Scamp, of course...

[Francesca Knowles]

Per the rivet question:

If you're talking about replacing rivets in the fiberglass shell with self-tapping screws, the answer is not without something on the other side-presumably wood- for the screw to hold on to. Screws won't grab and hold in the fiberglass alone. Rivets will/do....and are remarkably easy to work with.

Francesca

[flyplain]

Screws won't grab and hold in the fiberglass alone.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion on this.

I am grateful to have joined this FiberglassRV community, and every day I seem to feel more anxious for spring because I want to really invest some time cleaning, fixing, improving, modifying, and USING my Scamp.

Speaking of modifying... I am going to check the forums and online to learn about the best and most "useful" modifications that can and have been done with a 13 footer.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by flyplain

I'm getting frustrated with the cold already, and there are still four months left before any water around here will start to move again.

Originally Posted by flyplain

Speaking of modifying... I am going to check the forums and online to learn about the best and most "useful" modifications that can and have been done with a 13 footer.

Four months should be just about enough time. Raz