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Old 08-08-2007, 05:34 PM   #1
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Hi, we are new to posting on here but have been lurkers for sometime. We have been searching the forums for information about generators but haven't really seen the anwsers to what we are looking for. We have a 2003 16' Scamp with roof AC (duo-therm). It seems everyone we have talked to about it has given us different answers and we really need to get a generator soon, as our next trip is 4-5 days in the desert so AC is going to be a must during part of the day.

At the local CampingWorld when I have asked them, they have told me that I need to get (2) of the Honda EU2000i generators and link them together. Don't get me wrong, this would be an awesome setup I am sure, but I don't really have the $2300+ sitting around to go this route.

At a local RV dealer, which sells Yamaha generators, one of the salesmen told me if he were looking for a generator he would go to HarborFreieght and get something cheap. I am considering doing that, but I "know" harborfrieght and depending on what they have I do not want to be stuck in 100+ degree heat with a broken generator that I just bought.

Ok, trying to wrap this up so my first post doesn't turn into a novel.....

What kind of watts do I legitimately need to run an AC 4-5 hours off of?

If you have a generator and run a AC off of it, could you please post the brand, watts and how much it cost you. And would you buy it again?

THANK YOU FOR ANY COMMENTS.

John and Adrienne
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:26 PM   #2
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I bought a EU2000i Honda and it does the job. It runs my A/C or microwave, etc. This Honda is known for being very quiet and does not bother your neighbors.

YES, they cost more, but you get what you pay for. Cheap generators work well for contractors, NOT campers.

We were able to get a SPECIAL price Discussed Here for our members.

Wise Sales Website

I hope this helps,
Mike
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #3
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The reason you are getting different answers is that there are different a/c units and they have different starting currents. Call the a/c manf with model and serial numbers and ask them; they built the beast and they should have specs. Also ask if there is a 'hard start' kit available for your a/c; it reduces the starting load.

Keep in mind that the hotter it is outside and the harder your a/c is working, the harder it will be to start it up just at the time you most need it.

One of the best ways to keep everything under control is to find a way to rig a tarp over the egg to keep it in shade.

The drawback to the large, cheaper generators is that they make a lot of noise for both you and your neighbors, in part because they have to run at a high speed in order to produce 60Hz power, whereas the Honda/Kipor/Yamaha/Mitsubishi and other inverter-based generators can run quietly until they are needed and even then run much more quietly.
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:35 PM   #4
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A lower cost substitute is the Kipor. Cost about 2/3rds. They are knock offs of the Honda. Their website

There are dealers all over.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:00 PM   #5
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One potential drawback, however, is that I don't believe they have a way yet to connect two generators for a combined output if needed.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:02 PM   #6
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One potential drawback, however, is that I don't believe they have a way yet to connect two generators for a combined output if needed.
Yep, they now do although I don’t think you need it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:07 PM   #7
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One potential drawback, however, is that I don't believe they have a way yet to connect two generators for a combined output if needed.
According to thier web site they do!
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:11 PM   #8
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I bought my first EU2000i Honda after testing it when the temperature was 113° outside. I took my Casita down to the store and it ran my Air Conditioning with no problem. I have had it for over six years and it works great.

I bought a 3500 Kipor online, from a Florida dealer, for my houseboat and it had a warranty problem. Kipor sent me to a local California dealer who fixed it cheerfully. I had another issue (Choke cable came lose & clogged air filter with bugs), and they fixed it again under warranty. It has run perfectly now for a year.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:40 PM   #9
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I posted this review of a ProForce 2500 watt generator recently,($279 at Walmart), here's the link...

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...c=25010&st=

Before you buy ANYTHING, know how much wattage you need when you use your trailer to run EVERYTHING, or as many "creature comfort" necessities you need. To know this nugget of handy info get one of these...

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/sto...21255_200321255

It's an Reliance AMWATT Load tester, plug your trailer in it, then plug it into your power source, you'll then know the wattage or amperage of the current you are drawing at any time.

Assuming you are camping with just the AC fan running, a 110v fridge, one florescent light, a small TV, a DVD player and maybe some other small gadget, you'll find that most of the time you'll be needing only 400 - 800 watts of electrical power. But when the AC Compressor cycles on, or the fridge starts up, your power needs can spike upwards to 2000-3000 watts or more.

When shopping consider this higher demand plus a shade bit more.

Also IMHO, salesman would LOVE for you to think you need two generators, not for your power needs but rather for their commission incentive. Know FIRST how much power YOU need BEFORE you SELL YOURSELF on what you want to buy. (Don't get suckered by hype)

Read my review of the Proforce... I'm very impressed and happy with it, AND I spent less than $300!
Good Luck
ConwayBob
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:17 PM   #10
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The ProForce 2500 watt (67d is about twice as loud as the Honda EU2000i (59dB max load, 53dB @ 1/4 load). That could be very upsetting to your neighbors in camp. Also, compare the weights.

Here are some dB charts.


[ATTACH][/ATTACH]
[attachment=11709:atta
chment]

Honda EU2000i Specs.
<blockquote>Engine: 3.5 HP, Single Cylinder,
Overhead Cam, Air Cooled
Displacement: 98.5 cc
AC Output: 120V
2000W max.(16.7A)
1600W rated (13.3A)
Receptacles: 20A 125V Duplex
NEMA Plug Number: 5-20P
DC Output: 12V, 96W (8A)
Starting System: Recoil
Fuel Tank Capacity: 1.1 gallons
Run Time on One Tankful: 4 hrs. @ rated load--15 hrs. @ 1/4 load
Dimensions (L x W x H): 20.1" x 11.4" x 16.7"
Noise Level: 59 dB @ rated load
53 dB @ 1/4 load
Dry Weight: 46.3 lbs.</blockquote>
I certainly understand how compelling the price can be for the ProForce 2500
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:38 AM   #11
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One of the problems with the CampingWorld people is they don't really do small, and since there's a range of power draws for different A/C units, they assume you have an A/C that draws enough power to bring an arctic chill to a large house while running your microwave, water pump (leave the water running), all your lights, and perhaps even all the appliances in the large house, too.

A better way to go about things is to buy or borrow a Kill-a-Watt meter, plug it into the wall and your trailer into it, then turn on all the appliances you need to use while running your A/C and see what kind of power you're drawing. To stay within the confines of the power a Honda 2000 puts out you may find you need to make some choices, like not using the microwave while the A/C is running, but at least you'll know what you consume when you're being careful.

--Peter
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:37 AM   #12
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The ProForce 2500 watt (67d is about twice as loud as the Honda EU2000i (59dB max load, 53dB @ 1/4 load). That could be very upsetting to your neighbors in camp. Also, compare the weights.

Here are some dB charts..."
All the charted dB ratings aside, I was very surprised how quiet this Proforce was compared to the Yamaha EF3000iSEB. I was also very happy with the fact that I could match the Yamaha's sound level just by making a simple sound baffle to redirect the sound upward. I'll be making a more substantial cover, perhaps on a small garden cart that should make it real quiet and roll it around.

If I understand it correctly, the original need for a generator in this case is for a pending desert trip under primitive conditions, I'm going to assume there would not be a neighbor problem. Again, with a minimum sound baffle, this generator runs very quiet.

More importantly, the Honda you mentioned is rated at only 2000 watts peak. Despite its small sound footprint (at a 1/4 load), that's barely enough to carry a load that includes any sizable Air Conditioner. I'd be afraid that if running a A/C, lights, TV, ect., that Honda would probably be having to run at 1/2 load or more all the time, and max out during surges. Of course, I may be all wet on this...this is just my humble opinion.

The Honda generators ARE the benchmark that all other can be measured, and all things considered, offer the most convienence & reliability. But they are also WAY out of range in price for something that would serve only occasional use. If I would need a long term, full-time, full service generator, a Honda would be first on my list. Two or three weekends a season...they're too rich for me.

What sold me on the ProForce (besides the price) was hearing one run before I bought. Another Ham Operator had one & I got to look it over close-up. When I heard how quiet it was, I ran to Wal-Mart and put my money down.

Hearing one run BEFORE you buy is really the best way to shop, if a store dosen't have a floor model they can fire up for you, I'd shop elsewhere.

ConwayBob

BTW I know a couple who go to big NASCAR races and camp in the infield. They fire up their large noisy Devilbliss 5000 watt generator when they set-up. They say after a while they usually get invited to hook-up to a neighbors RV's along with an invite to the neighbors race party, just as long as they turn off that noisy generator. Thay say it's kinda like a big loud ice-breaker.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:11 PM   #13
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ConwayBob, You’re right on target and besides, when it goes kaput – you can just go and get a new one and do that several times before you reach the price of 1 new Honda with the same output. Sounds like you made a very smart move to me.
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Old 08-09-2007, 03:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Yep, they now do although I don’t think you need it.
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OK! They promised it some time back but I hadn't seen it and hadn't kept up.

I presume that they will have the same problem as Honda does in Canada, where a grounding requirement for small generators precludes this arrangement.
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Old 08-09-2007, 10:30 PM   #15
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Thank you all for the replies, they have been helpful.

Bob H, I have seen the ProForce generators at my local Kragen autoparts store. Infact they are on sale right now, I believe the 2500 is priced right around $200 and the 4500 is on sale for $299. I really like the price on these units as we won't be breaking the bank to get a generator.

I also saw the Cummins Onan HomeSite™ 2400 at Costco.com for $399, which seem like a pretty good price, just have to make sure it has the juice to run my setup. I know Onan's are pretty good generators as I have owned one in the past (in an RV) and they are in ALOT of rv's.

I need to climb up on my trailer and figure out exactly how much power it takes for the AC and go from there.

As mentioned, I am going to be camping in the desert but there will be other people around. I mainly (probably exclusively) will be running it a few hours a day to try and stay cool in the desert heat. I intend to run my fridge on propane and cannot forsee using any lights or other electronics in the daytime. I don't have a tv or other appliances that will be used (microwave is coming out).

THANK YOU ALL AGAIN FOR THE REPLIES!!!

Your comments have been helpful as we shop and "try" to make our decision.

John and Adrienne
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Old 08-10-2007, 09:14 AM   #16
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...Bob H, I have seen the ProForce generators at my local Kragen autoparts store. Infact they are on sale right now, I believe the 2500 is priced right around $200 and the 4500 is on sale for $299. I really like the price on these units as we won't be breaking the bank to get a generator...
Good Luck on your purchase, whatever you decide on, John. Passing on knowledge is what this forum is great for & I'm glad to be of some help.
I don't want to steer you away from the high dollar Hondas, Yamaha's, Kipors's, ect., but rather to offer some first-hand experience with a "cheaper" alternative. If I may, I'd like to pass on some information I've found useful...

The following is quoted directly from a "generatorsdirect.com" buyers guide...
"...If you think about it, a generator is basically an engine and an alternator.
The quality and style of these two components will determine a generator's size, quietness and, ultimately, price.
Most people assume that the engine -- which generates the power -- is the most influential component.
In fact, the style of the alternator -- which converts the power into electricity -- is actually the difference maker.
There are two styles of alternators: standard and inverter.

Standard generators consist of heavy copper coils, which generate a raw form of electricity.
The engine must maintain a constant speed of 3,600 rotations per minute to produce AC power. In other words, it must run at full speed, regardless of the load needed, consuming more fuel and generating more noise. The electricity produced isn't as clean as utility power. Therefore, standard generators are NOT recommended to power sensitive electronics like computers.

Inverter generators, however, utilize a different type of alternator to generate very clean AC power.
The inverter technology reduces the generator's weight. But more importantly, the engine can run at varying speeds, significantly reduce the noise levels. The state-of-the-art technology adds a few hundred dollars to the generator, but quality doesn't come cheap...."

While it may not be recommended, you can power your TV's, Computers, ect. using a standard generator, and it's easy get the same level of clean power from a standard generator as you get from an inverter through the use of a line conditioner like this one...

http://www.tripplite.com/products/pr...?productID=208

I already had a older model line conditioner for my amateur radio gear & it's a smart investment to have for any use of computers or high-end electronics. BTW you can find a good line conditioner for under $100. During my last outing, I ran all my electronics on a circuit through the line conditioner, just to be on the safe side, and the rest of the trailer appliances...AC, Fridge, Lights, direct from the generator.

As for the noise... if the ProForce is rated at 67dB, thats a very liberal assessment. Mine is quiet, and even more so after I put a baffle box around it.

My last advice is this...you can never have too much power, and you often have not enough. Determine how much you need then add a little bit more cuz' you don't want to come up short when you need it most.

Good Luck & Happy Campin'
ConwayBob
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:02 AM   #17
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The technical description from "generatorsdirect.com" looks pretty shaky to me, although I'm sure it is well intentioned. They have tried to "dumb" down the technology for the masses, and messed it up; it's a common problem, because interpreting technical information for a non-technical audience is not easy. They're so far off on some of their stuff that I would be hesitant to believe any of it.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:59 PM   #18
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"The technical description from "generatorsdirect.com" looks pretty shaky to me, although I'm sure it is well intentioned. They have tried to "dumb" down the technology for the masses, and messed it up..."
In what way have they messed it up?

Quote:
" ...They're so far off on some of their stuff that I would be hesitant to believe any of it...."
Specifically, what is "far off"?

I know that the info they are supplying is ultimately designed to sell generators, but please, can you elaborate what it is that they have wrong.
I only quoted a small part of the information they have on their website. It was pretty extensive.

If it'll help here is the direct link to the page...
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/ca...reational2b.php
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Old 08-10-2007, 01:47 PM   #19
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Moderator hat on.

This thread was closed -- It is being reopened by request. Lets keep it nice and friendly or it will be closed again

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Old 08-16-2007, 06:39 PM   #20
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I myself have a small 1000 Honda. I find it real quiet and just right for my needs.
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