Help researching brands please

[Marshallpianotech]

hi everyone
I posted in this forum and the towing forums before . I hope I'm posting my questions to the correct forum. Im waiting for toyota to call with a quote to install the hitch. I'm not sure of my budget now but by my 50 th bday it will be better as my piano business picks up. So I'm interested in suggestions as to a good high quality tt that doesn't use rivets and is not prone to leaking rotting etc. I have two kids. I'm sight impaired and my wife is our only driver. We have a toyota highlander with a towing captivity of 1:500 lbs. I'd like to find something that will sleep 4 comfortably normal size beds not these tiny bunks even kids can out grow. We'd like to find one where even the twin bunks are normal size. We ll need one with a. A bathroom and one we. Can hook up to electric sewer cable. No primitive camping for this Philly guy lol. I'd like to find one we could even get 5 into incase we have a visitor and ac of courses is there a fgrv out there a 3500 tow limit vehicle can pull that is roomy enough for 4 to 5 with ac normal size beds a decent bathroom and virtually maitanence free? Thanks. .

[Bob Miller]

First, don't let rivets through there hull be a disqualifying issue. If it was a big issue there wouldn't be near as many SCAMPs out there and they have been building them that way for over 40 years.

Not to say that there aren't better ways, but that sysem has held up to the test of time. ALL FGRV's can leak at the windows and roof hatches. Taking care of them and the rivets at the some time is part and parcel of routine maintenance with ALL FGRV's.

Wanting "Normal" size beds is also a limiting factor as most FGRV's don't have that luxury of space, especially when you want sleeping for 4-5 peeps. BTW: 5 being the deal breaker in almost all FGRV's in your weight class.

And, about the only way you can be "Maintenance Free" is to buy a restored or a new one, and sell it every three years, or have a good friend (or checkbook) that can do the maintenance. The ads are full of FGRV's that didn't get routine maintenance, they should be called Fixers, but many sellers don't like that word and pronounce them "Excellent for it's age"

Considering a moderate budget (under $10K ?) I would be out looking for an early 17' Bigfoot, allowing about $7k for purchase and $3k for fix-up expenses.... But that's just my choice.

Good Luck Hunting.....

[Jon in AZ]

You are asking a lot… especially with a tow limit of 3500 pounds*! Scamp and Casita are out (rivets). I don't know of any (except 5th wheel types) that can sleep 5 in "normal-sized" beds. The one that might come closest to meeting your requirements is a Parkliner. With the bunk option it can sleep four, and their bunk set-up appears to be a sturdier design that may sleep full-size people. I'm sure some Parkliner owners will chime in on this. Know that Parkliner is a newer company that is experiencing some design bugs. You'll have to make your own judgment on that. A search for "Parkliner" on this site will produce a lot of hits.

FWIW, my own theory on the old-style bunks is this: when they get too big, toss them outside in a tent. They'll enjoy their privacy, and so will you .

You may also want to rethink your aversion to rivets. They really aren't that much trouble. You just need to replace the plastic covers every few years. Unless you do a lot of boondocking on rough roads (which doesn't sound like what you are planning), they rarely leak, and if they do, they're easy to replace.

*EDIT: means you are probably looking for a trailer with a dry weight under 2500 lbs., since you have to allow for options, cargo, and even, to some extent, the weight of the people and cargo in the car

[Marshallpianotech]

hi hi John and Bob
Thanks for the replies. I think the egg camper brand is 2500 lbs on the dot gives a little wiggle room. Space sounds cramped what are your thoughts on those all aluminum camp life's. I wonder if I might have to start out with a pop up. I'm just not keen on the idea of all that set up hassle plus to me it doesn't feel like you're inside all that much. I stayed I a pop up at least on e I can recall. The Triliums seem. NIce as do big foots. Im sure I can work with the rivets lol. . Thanks

[Bob Miller]

If the advertised weight for the EggCamper is 2500 lbs even you can bet that it's for a very basic unit and the MFG is using a WAG to be able to prublish a low weight. Many have already learned that published weights are always under what's delivered. Add to that, a family of 4 or 5 will add 500-700 lbs of "Stuff" to that number putting you very close the TV's limit.

Don't know what a "Camp Life" is, can you provide a link.

Last year I referbed a small tent trailer for my son and am just finishing another one that he likes even better. Here are some pics of the 1st one: It sleeps 4 adults!
1983 StarCraft 14 Foot Photos by advocateone | Photobucket

For what it's worth, the pop-up tent trailers have a lot more interior space and sleeping accommodations than any of the FGRV's of comparable towing length & weight.

[Jon in AZ]

I think the OP is talking about the Camplite line. Their site is here:
Camplite Ultra Lightweight All Aluminum Travel Trailers | Livin' Lite RV

I looked into their tent trailers before entering the FGRV world. Very basic. Box & running gear seemed well-designed, but thought the tent fabric too flimsy. Never looked at the hard-sided units - too expensive for me. Looking at the data, dry weights are comparable to FGRVs. They haven't been around very long, so there isn't much of a used market. Also heard they don't do well in the cold.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

.....

Considering a moderate budget (under $10K ?) I would be out looking for an early 17' Bigfoot, allowing about $7k for purchase and $3k for fix-up expenses.... But that's just my choice.

Good Luck Hunting.....

Did you see the ad and pics for the 1992, 17' BigFoot that was just posted in Trailers for sale? I think that I was kinda close on my price estimate.

Don't miss this chance.......

[Orlen Wolf]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

If the advertised weight for the EggCamper is 2500 lbs even you can bet that it's for a very basic unit and the MFG is using a WAG to be able to prublish a low weight.

Re: the EggCamper

The 2500 pound weight is the GVWR. The GVWR was 2700 pounds until 2007 then changed to 2500 for the 2008 models. An empty EggCamper shell with the battery on the tongue weighs 1500 pounds so you can add the weights of appliances, fresh water supply etc. to the 1500.

Also, the EggCamper will only sleep 3 people max and the one sleeping on the side better be fairly short. The rear bed area is about 54" wide by 84" long.

73

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Did you see the ad and pics for the 1992, 17' BigFoot that was just posted in Trailers for sale? I think that I was kinda close on my price estimate.

Don't miss this chance.......

Checked the thread http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html - there were two Bigfoot 17.5's listed. One was just under 3000# (#54), the other was well over 4000# (#107). The range between the two seems a bit unusual for the same manufacturer & size (different layout? full tanks? bad data?). Both were over 350# on the tongue. The greater height & width of a Bigfoot means more room but also more frontal area when towing. Seems pretty marginal for the OP's Highlander.

Nice trailer, though, for the right person!

[Bob Miller]

Nope-Nope-Nope

The 17' and the 17.5' are two different trailers. The earlier (Pre-1993?) 17'ers were a lot lighter, as I recall about 700 lbs lighter than the later 17.5' versions. But the one 17.5' @3000 lbs only needs 300 lbs on the hitch and could be doable with careful packing and still be well under the 3500 lb limit.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Orlen Wolf

Re: the EggCamper

The 2500 pound weight is the GVWR. The GVWR was 2700 pounds until 2007 then changed to 2500 for the 2008 models. An empty EggCamper shell with the battery on the tongue weighs 1500 pounds so you can add the weights of appliances, fresh water supply etc. to the 1500.

Also, the EggCamper will only sleep 3 people max and the one sleeping on the side better be fairly short. The rear bed area is about 54" wide by 84" long.

73

Thank you for sorting that out. It sorta sounded like the starting weight was 2500 for the EggCamper, but it sounds like that's all moot for the op anyway.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Nope-Nope-Nope

The 17' and the 17.5' are two different trailers. The earlier (Pre-1993?) 17'ers were a lot lighter, as I recall about 700 lbs lighter than the later 17.5' versions. But the one 17.5' @3000 lbs only needs 300 lbs on the hitch and could be doable with careful packing and still be well under the 3500 lb limit.

Didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification!

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

The 17' and the 17.5' are two different trailers.

I was also thinking that the 17' Bigfoot would suit the OP, but was not sure on the weights. Thanks for pointing out the difference Bob.

Makes me wonder if Frederick made a mistake on the length of trailer # 54 in his list. He has them both as a 17.5' trailer.

[Marshallpianotech]

hi John & Bob and anyone I missed
Thanyou for the information. As a review when considering any tt do I take the dry weight and add it's load capasity plus tongue weight to get an acurate number go by the g v r or simply add about 700lbs to gain a more acurate number? Any thoughts on those hybrids?

[Bob Miller]

"Load Capacity" may not be a number available for most FGRV's, especially in the used arena. If a rig isn't listed in the real weights list, posting your interest here might get additional information.

The real point is that dry weight numbers from manufacturers often do not reflect out-the-door weights as delivered. I don't recall seeing any sales sheets that included figures to add or subtract from given weights based on options and/or deletions.

Items like spare tire, a/c, microwave and even toilet options may not be included and can add significantly to the starting weight.

[Jon in AZ]

It's a bit long and detailed, but you may want to give this thread a read:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rms-55514.html

Knowing what a trailer will actually weigh when you load it is tricky. In theory, you start with the dry weight. That should include everything that is standard on the base model, but no options and no fluids (e.g., water, propane). But published dry weights can be deceptive. On a Scamp, for example, the refrigerator, bathroom, AC, furnace, HW heater, and battery are all optional. Add those things and fill the propane tanks, and you've probably already added a few hundred pounds even before you start to add your own stuff. So, as Bob suggests, adding 500-750 pounds to the dry weight gives you a rough guess and place to start.

The GVWR is simply the extreme upper limit of the trailer and everything in it. It is determined by the maximum weight the frame, axle, and tires can carry. Some manufacturers list a payload (or load capacity) as GVWR minus the dry weight. That number, though, has to include options and fluids, as well as your stuff.

Another source of information is the thread http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...rld-43010.html.
These are actual weights of specific makes and models as loaded for travel (by real people, so the same trailer may have several different weights listed). There are three numbers: axle weight, tongue weight, and total (axle+tongue). The second two are both important in relation to the towing capacity of your vehicle.

Once you buy a trailer, it would be a good idea to take it to a public scale (loaded for travel) and see what it really weighs.

Another consideration is the type of travel you will be doing. If I were planning shorter trips on fairly level terrain at low altitudes, I would be comfortable pulling a trailer that is fairly close to my vehicle's weight limit (I read 80% somewhere recently). But if I were planning a cross country expedition and exploring the Rockies, I personally would want more reserve capacity. Otherwise you may find yourself creeping up a long mountain grade at 15 mph. Something else to consider…

I wish you the best in getting all this sorted out. I appreciate that you are thinking everything through carefully.

[Jon in AZ]

At risk of further complicating an already confusing discussion…

When is 3500 pounds NOT 3500 pounds?

At least for my 2011 Honda Pilot, it's when extra people are riding in it. I have no idea what your Highlander's owner's manual may or may not say, but Honda devotes a whole page to the following chart, which specifies how tow ratings are reduced according to the number of 150 lb. adults on board. It does make sense that more people in the car means less on the back.



Since you mention traveling with four people, it's something else to weigh into your decision (pun intended). Cargo in the vehicle would have a similar effect, I presume, though Honda isn't quite so anal as to include a detailed chart of that (though, according to the fine print, they do factor in 15 pounds of personal effects per passenger)!

[Marshallpianotech]

hi John
A confusing topic indeed. So to be safe maybe adding 1500 lbs to the trailer wright dry weight is best to account for stuff and passengers plus tongue weight. Better to e safe than sorry getting something that by adding 1500 Lbs would go over the 3500 limit best to go light S I possibly can and[ that will hold 4 comfortably. I should be able to find something