Maintenance & Restoration

V'sGlassSleeper · 10-08-2007, 08:43 AM

Thanks, everyone,

We finally located another GFI that is correctly wired, so will see if we can get the extension cords to go that far to test again.

Then, if needed, will check the AC wires as suggested.

Then, if all else fails, will remove the bellyband and start unscrewing spots to see if that makes a difference.

We are not adverse to calling in an expert once we have exhausted what remedies we can try ourselves we can do, but haven't heard back yet from either repairman we called last week.

Byron Kinnaman · 10-08-2007, 09:18 AM

One other thing you might look for is an open neutral (white wire). Depending on how the trailer is wired an open neutral could cause a GFI to trip.

Darwin Maring · 10-08-2007, 09:56 AM

We have a GFI at home that "Trips" when we plug the cord in of a hot circuit. Such as a lamp that is already turned on.

We simply reset the GFI with the cord already plugged in and the lamp turned on and it no longer trips.

I think it trips because the cord that is being plugged in, all 3 contacts do not make contact at the same time and the GFI thinks something is wrong.

V'sGlassSleeper · 10-08-2007, 12:14 PM

WHAT THE...?

Maybe I won't have to touch the bellyband and any of the screws... maybe it is the AC instead?

I managed to plug the trailer in to a different GFI outlet (that I verified was correctly wired using the circuit tester) and it did NOT trip anything until I put the AC on "COOL" or moved the temperature setting knob. It did fine with the AC on the Low Heat and Low Fan setting, but when I moved the Temperature selection knob on the right or selected "Cool" instead, the GFI tripped within seconds.

But then, I tried plugging the travel trailer in to this same GFI with the AC turned OFF, and the GFI tripped WITHOUT the AC being on.

If anyone has a recommendation for a reliable and reasonably priced Phoenix, AZ area travel trailer electrical/AC service shop or mobile repairman, please let us know... a lot of places around here only work on motorhomes and class A, not trailers. Camping World is not well-rated here and their service work prices are outrageous.

Thanks very much!

V'sGlassSleeper · 10-08-2007, 04:32 PM

UPDATE:

Newbieitis strikes again...!

I was finally successful in reaching Dennis of Nelson's RV Repair here in Phoenix (who had been recommended by Ken, the fellow who did a great job on the TT axle replacement). I explained the scenario and according to Dennis:

It is perfectly normal for an underpowered GFI to trip as described. 15 amp household GFIs are not intended to power a travel trailer, so running an AC off of one is definitely not realistic, and even powering fans and smaller fixtures in the TT may overload a 15 amp GFI. Oh.

A GFI in general may trip easily when connected to a travel trailer because the travel trailer has its own internal ground and when the GFI senses this, it thinks there's something wrong (this was a little confusing, because I thought that campground 30 amp outlets all had to be grounded persuant to a regulation change, but perhaps this only comes into play with underpowered GFIs). Oh.

I also read (in the invaluable Trailer Life RV Repair & Maintenance Manual) and Dennis confirmed that using an extension cord rather than plugging directly into an outlet compounds any underamperage issues because the longer the power has to travel, the more "oomph" it loses and most common outdoor extension cords are undersized as it is for their length, so they lose a lot of power. Thus, running two extension cords about 80 feet to reach a 15 amp household GFI cannot be expected to yield successful travel trailer power source results. Oh.

Dennis recommended that, if we need to power the tt while at home, we use a non GFI outlet that has the highest possible amperage (i.e. the one we use for the fridge), but added that ideally, a TT should be plugged in to an appropriately rated 30 amp outlet, since that best matches the TT system needs. [Which would explain why people often have a 30 amp outlet installed at home for their TT]. Oh.

I am breathing a huge (though still tentative) sigh of relief. At the very least, we have now made contact with a repair professional in our area who does service ACs and electrical systems in travel trailers. Thank you, everyone for your input. I guess, if anything, newbies like us do such ignorant things that we provide an ideal opportunity for the more seasoned travel trailer owners to show off what they know. Ow, head hurts.

Val

Lainey · 10-08-2007, 07:59 PM

Wow, don't feel bad. I learned a thing or two from your egg-sperience! I never knew that people even had 30 amp outlets installed for their trailers at all. Hopefully that's that, and NO screws to remove and wiring to replace

The a/c-electrical repair guy seems like he's running an honest business and will be a good person to use when and if there are any future electrical or a/c concerns, so there's a bonus out of the whole situation! Don't ya just love finding good people to help out

BobB · 10-09-2007, 03:48 AM

Val,

Glad you were able to get some help with your electrical problems. The dedicated 30 amp outlet is a great idea. We have one connected directly to the house breaker panel with 10 ga wiring. I like to run the air conditioning in the trailer when I am working in there. I also keep an outlet tester in one of the trailer outlets, so I know when I am "plugged in" and that the polarity is correct, good things to know when you hook-up in at a strange RV park.

I think you now know why they say, "If you have an RV, you don't need a hobby!"

V'sGlassSleeper · 10-09-2007, 08:59 AM

Thank you, Lainey and Bob and everyone for your gracious responses.

Val & Kayla

Pete Dumbleton · 10-09-2007, 05:51 PM

I missed the a/c part. Campers wired for a/c typically have a complete 30A@120VAC package installed consisting of a heavy shore power cable with a 30A@120VAC plug and a set of 15A@120VAC circuit breakers in a box or the converter.

One of the breakers will be dedicated to nothing but the a/c (and its heat strips, if any) and the other breaker will be for all the rest of the appliances, converter and outlets.

If someone has a 15A@120VAC plug on the shore power cable and also has a/c installed, they have a jack-leg, non-Code setup and should consult a knowledgeable electrician.

Not sure I agree with the 'different prongs at different times' explanation for a GFCI tripping. The way it works is that the GFCI is balanced and more current on one power leg than on the neutral leg implies current flowing elsewhere and the unbalance opens the circuit. If one prong is touching and the other isn't, there's no current flow unless there is leakage to ground...

WiKi on GFCI

Notes:

1. I don't believe all GFCIs will detect a missing ground, just an imbalance, however it's likely the test button wouldn't work.

2. I don't believe all GFCI will detect reversed power and neutral, again it needs an imbalance to trip. There are different types of GFCI, some may detect the power wire, some may not.

3. I suspect any GFCI breaker that is doing strange stuf is either strange itself or is a strange situation...

4. Contrary to popular understanding, not all GFCIs protect outlets 'downstream' from them. I have personally handled a GFCI receptacle which had wiring options to protect or NOT protect the downstream outlets.

V'sGlassSleeper · 02-17-2010, 11:00 PM

UPDATE:

This turned out to be the exterior outlets we were using at home; we live in a 1940's era bungalow which has required significant "updating" over the years -- both outlets had reversed polarity and were not actually grounded (though they were "three prong"). Got the wiring corrected and then everything worked great.

Lesson learned: Sometimes the answer is the simplest one.

Joe MacDonald · 02-19-2010, 06:47 PM

Most GFCI's sold in Canada detect incorrect polarity, if it's wrong the outlet won't work., or will not reset.

Downstream protection generally depends on how you wire the GFCI.

In Ontario, the acceptable fix from ESA(our hydro authority) for situations in older houses that do not have a ground conductor in the 110v cable is to either pull a separate ground wire from a city water point, (highly impractical in a finished house) or install a GFCI and let it deal with the ground fault issues on it's own.

Glad you got your troubles sorted out

Joe