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10-15-2016, 04:40 PM
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#1
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Member
Name: Lionel
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 1300 pulled by a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Ontario
Posts: 40
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Help with Fuses and circuits
I am installing a new power centre in our 1976 Trillium 1300 and i don't know what size (amp) of 12V fuses to use. I have 6 DC circuits to work with, but with a little trailer I doubt I will use most of them. I have upgraded all the interior lights with LED bulbs for a total of 6 interior lights. I was thinking of keeping all these on one fuse but unsure what amp fuse to use. I will also run a double USB charger outlet for charging our iPhones, iPad etc. on a separate circuit. Then likely a 12V Radio/CD Player on a third. I have a pack of 20Amp fuses but want to make sure I use the right ones for each circuit. Any recommendations appreciated!
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10-15-2016, 05:06 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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The size of the fuse is determined by the size ( guage) of the wire
( conductor ampacity) The size of the wire ( conductor) is determined by the load ( amperage ). I would not put all your lights on the same circuit , if you blow the fuse you will be totally in the dark. Split up the lights on 2 different circuits.
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10-15-2016, 05:08 PM
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#3
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Member
Name: Lionel
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 1300 pulled by a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Ontario
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
The size of the fuse is determined by the size ( guage) of the wire
( conductor ampacity) The size of the wire ( conductor) is determined by the load ( amperage ). I would not put all your lights on the same circuit , if you blow the fuse you will be totally in the dark. Split up the lights on 2 different circuits.
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OK, so the lighting wire is all 14 gauge. I can easily split into 2 circuits. What amp fuses would be good for these?
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10-15-2016, 05:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: Escape 21C
New York
Posts: 2,387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
OK, so the lighting wire is all 14 gauge. I can easily split into 2 circuits. What amp fuses would be good for these?
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A good set of tables for determining wire size, fusing, etc is at West Marine.
Using their tables, AWG #14 can be fused up to 35 amps, although as a long time 120V electrician, I'd prefer to only fuse # 14 wire at 15 amps...
15 amp circuits will be fine for everything except for providing power for a refrigerator that runs on 12V.
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10-15-2016, 05:41 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: Randy
Trailer: 1980Trillium 1300
Ontario
Posts: 373
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...Just follow your towing vehicle fuse panel with assumption all wire gauges corrected. Open your tow vehicle fuse panel, reading the ratings and here you go, Buddy. Just a thought.
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10-15-2016, 05:45 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Randy
Trailer: 1980Trillium 1300
Ontario
Posts: 373
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Supplemental: For battery fuse, usually rated at 30Amp DC, flood lights/head lights... 20A, and the rest..MOST are 15 amps..If using LED light I think 10A is more than enough
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10-15-2016, 05:45 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
OK, so the lighting wire is all 14 gauge. I can easily split into 2 circuits. What amp fuses would be good for these?
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#14 AWG copper wire has a listed ampacity of 15 amps , so the largest fuse allowed is 15 amps . You can fuse the wire at less than 15 amps . We often installed #12 AWG copper wire which is rated for 20 amps but fused the circuit at 15 amps.
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10-15-2016, 05:47 PM
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#8
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Member
Name: Lionel
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 1300 pulled by a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Ontario
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
#14 AWG copper wire has a listed ampacity of 15 amps , so the largest fuse allowed is 15 amps . You can fuse the wire at less than 15 amps . We often installed #12 AWG copper wire which is rated for 20 amps but fused the circuit at 15 amps.
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Perfect, thanks all. Will pick up some 15 amp fuses.
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10-15-2016, 05:48 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
I am installing a new power centre in our 1976 Trillium 1300
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I'm considering replacing mine. What did you choose and why?
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10-15-2016, 06:04 PM
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#10
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Member
Name: Lionel
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 1300 pulled by a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Ontario
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO
I'm considering replacing mine. What did you choose and why?
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This is what I purchased:
https://www.amazon.ca/WFCO-WF8735PB-.../dp/B004LF14Q4
I can't say I did an amazing amount of research or anything, but it had what I needed (and more) and would fit in the space that I had. :-)
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10-15-2016, 06:20 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escape— 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
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Just a note . Automobile / vehicle wiring is not covered in the NEC.
RV wiring is covered by the NEC. One of the primary reasons is that an RV is designed to be a dwelling place with cooking facilities and sleeping quarters where a vehicle is not . Choosing the size of fuses / overcurrent devices based on auto industry practices will often put you in violation of the NEC. I know in my truck there is #12 AWG fused at 40 amps , where the NEC limits the fuse size to 20 amps.
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10-15-2016, 07:08 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
it had what I needed (and more) and would fit in the space that I had. :-)
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Thanks. I think everything I've looked at has more than I need. Maybe getting what fits in the space is the answer.
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10-16-2016, 07:40 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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When I installed the wiring in my Scamp I used 2 and 4 conductor cables of the proper size and ran both power and ground to each device so that the wires stayed neater.
Also they are a little better protected.
Labeling is a good idea as well since although I remember absolutely every thing I do ...........well you get the idea.
I bought wire with white insulation and you can write on it if you want to.
What I bought was sold as speaker wire and is available on Amazon in 14 and 16 gauge. I used 16 and fused accordingly since my trailer is all LED.
The wiring to the Refrigerator was of course heavier as was the Romex run to the outlets which I installed everywhere and now wish I had installed more!
I installed barrier terminal strips behind the converter and brought all of the circuits there along with a grounding buss mounted next to that. I also brought all of the seven wires from the trailer 7 pin plug to a strip here so that troubleshooting the electrical could be done from a central spot. That includes the brake wiring from the plug and to each brake, tail and running lights, turn signals and reversing lights.
The main trailer power from the plug is fused and tied into the battery via the first 30 amp circuit (fused in the converter) in the system.
The power from the trailer is protected with a 30 amp circuit breaker and has a cutoff relay to kill power when the engine is not running.
If you check my thread on rebuilding the Scamp I also added power meters for both AC and DC so I would know what is happening electrically.
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10-16-2016, 06:42 PM
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#14
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Member
Name: George
Trailer: 1997 16' Scamp
Michigan
Posts: 81
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Which wire gauge and what fuses? The wire size ALWAYS determines the maximum fuse that can be used. Your battery feed will probably 30 amp and #10 wire. The circuits will be of wire sizes #14 and #12, maximum fuses will be 15A and 20 A. Suppose you run a #14 wire to your stereo or your pressure water pump. The information with the stereo or pump will recommend the fuse size, probably 6 - 10 A which is below the 15A maximum for the #14 wire. Label things well and have spare fuses.
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10-16-2016, 06:45 PM
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#15
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Member
Name: George
Trailer: 1997 16' Scamp
Michigan
Posts: 81
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Another thought, most all wire you will find is stranded which stands up to vibration better and is more flexible. Romex house wire is solid.
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10-19-2016, 07:22 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Tim
Trailer: Boler
Alberta
Posts: 277
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Please let me know how this converter works for you! I have been debating buying the exact same one. My old one suffered after a power surge and I am still debating if I buy this or put in a breaker panel, battery charger and fuse panel instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
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10-19-2016, 07:32 AM
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#17
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Member
Name: Lionel
Trailer: 1976 Trillium 1300 pulled by a 2015 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Ontario
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimR
Please let me know how this converter works for you! I have been debating buying the exact same one. My old one suffered after a power surge and I am still debating if I buy this or put in a breaker panel, battery charger and fuse panel instead.
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Will do! I am hoping to finish up with the wiring/install this weekend but unfortunately with the cold weather coming in it will be next spring before we get to take it out.
And will be posting pictures as I go on our blog: ourtrillium.wordpress.com
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10-19-2016, 12:00 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Tim
Trailer: Boler
Alberta
Posts: 277
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Very cool. I found the converter kind of strange though that going from black to brown costs more than double??!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionelAucoin
Will do! I am hoping to finish up with the wiring/install this weekend but unfortunately with the cold weather coming in it will be next spring before we get to take it out.
And will be posting pictures as I go on our blog: ourtrillium.wordpress.com
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10-20-2016, 05:29 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Posts: 1,158
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if you already have a converter with ac and dc circuits whether fuses and or breakers, it is not usually too big a chore to pull out the dc section of the old converter, and wire in a new PD9130 or something similar, that is what I did, when I pulled the old converter out the dc section was just bolted on the back of the panel. I pulled it off, made a couple of brackets and mounted the new converter on the old panel. Ran a couple new wires into the panel, re did the wires for the battery, and bob's your uncle back in busines with a minimum of wiring
Joe
-1+
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10-20-2016, 06:58 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 700
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I just bought a new Progressive Dynamics PD4135 for my trailer.
I haven't installed it yet due to lack of time (and now it's getting colder...)
My plan was to initially go with a deck-mount converter like the PD9130, and use the existing circuit breakers and fuses (or install a new DC fuse panel and new push-button AC breakers).
Then I realized that going with a all-in-one converter like the PD4135 wasn't more expansive, was simpler to wire and install, and offered the option to upgrade the trailer from 15A to 30A AC service, which I'm planning to do (not that I will be using 30A regularly, but I'll have the option).
The main thing on upgrading to 30A is simply getting a 30A main breaker instead of 15A, and replace the power cord to a 30A-rated, 10AWG RV cord. I found a 30A RV extension cord at Costco for $42 (real cheap) that I will be using for this.
My new converter has 6 DC and 5 AC branches. I'm adding both AC and DC voltmeters/amp meters, USB charging ports, new LED lights, new battery, and various switches to control all of this.
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