help with Trillium door hinges

[Mike and Sarah K]

I am getting to my 78 trillium that we picked up last year. One of the things that look likes it needs immediate attention is the door hinges and where they are attached to the body.

There are spider cracks around the body portion and on the lower hinge it looks like there is a sectiong that is porting thathas just poped out. Alsso looks like the top hinge is pulling away from the body and it was filled in with *gasp* silicone. Right now the door is tight with no play in it both up and down and in and out.

My question is
1. what does the hinges screw into - wood, metal, thickened fiberglass
2. what shoud I do about fixing it or even if i have to right now.
3. based on the popping section, am i going to have to do a major fiberglass repair and if so will I hve to repaint the entire egg to hide this blemish?
4. any other words of widsom from other people that have

I am willing to call anybody about these items and other ones that I have (see my other posts). Please send me a message/email with your contacts

[Raya]

If I remember correctly, from past reading, the Trillum hinges are screwed into a wooden member that is under the Ensolite on the inside (you should see a bulge there).

The gelcoat cracks are probably caused by some sort of stress, which is often concentrated at fasteners. Especially if there is movement.

The hinge screws may have worked loose over time, and/or the wooden backing piece may have become soft through moisture or rot, and then no longer held the screws properly.

Assuming the set up is as I'm remembering it, I think I would go in with the following plan (of course potentially modifying it as you find out what is actually happening).

1) I would remove the hinges from the trailer

2) If the wooden member is not rotted overall but in the screw hole area only, then I would overdrill the fastener holes (make them, oh, say, 3/4" with a hole saw), and then fill the holes with thickened epoxy and let that cure (be tidy with tape and etc.)

3) Then, after checking on fastener size, I would re-drill the proper sized hole to accomodate the new fasteners. This should be centered on the epoxy plug, and leave an epoxy annulus around the perimeter. Of course make sure the door is lined up properly and the holes lined up with the hinge.

4) Note that I would most likely go back in with machine screws (i.e. fasteners that are non-pointed and have a nut on the inside), but you can probably use screws if you are really set on not having nuts on the inside. Note that if you use machine screws, and you want to be really anal, you can "tap" the fiberglass plugs, but that is not necessary.

5) Now, while you have the hinge off, you can repair the gelcoat cracks. I feel like I may have written the steps for that up here before; or, someone else has. In short you prep, route, and fill with gelcoat to slightly proud; then sand down to flush and sand progressively finer until glossy (1000 grit or so). Note that you will want to "buff out" (compound or wet sand) the surrounding gelcoat first so that you are matching "healthy" gelcoat and not oxidized gelcoat (lighter in color).

6) The Silicone. Ugh! But, if it is just in one screw hole, and you use a hole saw to overdrill it, maybe that problem will go away

7) When you re-mount the door, use a good bedding compound such as butyl or polyurethane caulk (or other suitable type).

I hope I haven't forgotten any steps, but this should give you a general idea, and feel free to PM or ask questions here

Note that you will want to prep the gelcoat by removing any mold release wax, before you do any sanding or etc. Interlux 202 is one product that works, but there are others. The main thing is to use a lot of disposable towels or etc. and not to "re-wipe" with the same part of a towel, because that will recontaminate the area.

Raya

PS: Okay, here come the PS'es One you start to remove the damaged gelcoat, you can see if there is any underlying fiberglass damage, and repair it at that time.

[Jeff Nightingale]

I am getting to my 78 trillium that we picked up last year. One of the things that look likes it needs immediate attention is the door hinges and where they are attached to the body.

There are spider cracks around the body portion and on the lower hinge it looks like there is a sectiong that is porting thathas just poped out. Alsso looks like the top hinge is pulling away from the body and it was filled in with *gasp* silicone. Right now the door is tight with no play in it both up and down and in and out.

My question is
1. what does the hinges screw into - wood, metal, thickened fiberglass
2. what shoud I do about fixing it or even if i have to right now.
3. based on the popping section, am i going to have to do a major fiberglass repair and if so will I hve to repaint the entire egg to hide this blemish?
4. any other words of widsom from other people that have

I am willing to call anybody about these items and other ones that I have (see my other posts). Please send me a message/email with your contacts

Hello

Last year I bought a 1972 1300 Trillium and did a frame off restore. Still have to pull all the windows and rebutyle them (have all new black window trim to replace the old), will be using SS hardware as well. Rebutyle and rivet top vent. And redo all cuboards and table with Birck Wood. Oh ya was saving the buff and wax job on it for last once I completed everything. Then it's completly done yaaaaaa! Spent over 3 months on it lots and lots of work but well worth it in the end. It was in rough shape when I got it. Not anymore though. One more month should do it (winter stopped my progress).

Anyway I digress. The door hinges are indeed screwed into wood. What I did for my hinges (which were very pitted, screws were rusted almost down to nothing, retaining wood had some rot) was remove the hinges from the trailer and door. Cleaned out the rotten wood carefully with a drill and dremel. Then Squirted Gorilla glue (this stuff hardens exstremly well) into the cleaned out hinge mounting holes, jammed in as many toothpicks as I could and as far in as I could, let dry, snipped off excess toothpicks that protruded from the holes as close to the body of the trailer and door as I could. Drilled small pilot holes in the center of each hole. And reinstalled hinges with the next size up from original Stainless Steel screws. Worked out absolutly great.

Before the hinges were reinstalled I buffed them very thoroughly with a Wire wheel bench grinder (this helps with the paint adhesion as it scratches them up a bit, and cleans them up nicely). As they were very oxidized and pitted like yours are. Once they were buffed I thoroughly cleaned / washed them. Then primed and painted them with 3 fine coats primer, 5 fine coats paint. Used Tremclad flat black for finishing coats. This saved me from buying new hinges and they turned out great as well (there was absolutly no play in my hinges, thank god).

As for the fiberglass spider / stress cracks mine were very very minimal compaired to yours. So nothing really needed to be done in that area of it. I wish I could help ya there, but it looks like Raya has ya couvered there anyway.

Here's a couple picks to give you an idea of my results. Oh ya if you look at the first pic of the hinge you will notice the pitting, it is fairly uniform, so it looks quite good I think. Sort of a Vintage look. The fourth pic is the way I got it (it's in the original owners laneway). I am only the second owner of this trailer, can ya believe it. The old fellow really didn't want to give it up, but his wife was quite ill and they couldn't use it anymore. And made me promise to do great things with it. So I kept my promise I think.

Good luck with you project.

Cheers Jeff

[Donna D.]

If you're interested in shiny new hinges...

This may give you a chuckle, but the exterior hinges are actually commercial refrigerator hinges and are still available from a number of places.

It's the Kason Hinge, part # 139, flush mount. It is available from many online stores and from Team Trillium. The Kason #139 is a specific shape that fits the door molding for older Trilliums.

Here's one quick source... Google is your friend:
Cold Supply.

[Mike and Sarah K]

If you're interested in shiny new hinges...

This may give you a chuckle, but the exterior hinges are actually commercial refrigerator hinges and are still available from a number of places.

It's the Kason Hinge, part # 139, flush mount. It is available from many online stores and from Team Trillium. The Kason #139 is a specific shape that fits the door molding for older Trilliums.

Here's one quick source... Google is your friend:
Cold Supply.

I really like the shiny new hinges but economics right now says that I will be painting them as well. I really do like the pitted painted look kinda worught iron look

On another note

I removed the door and to my disgust I found that the original owner put yellow plastic drywall anchors in the hinge screwholes. Somebody must have been confused adn thought htey were building a house.

It looks like I will have to drill it out and fill it in with a wood filler/replacement and then rehang the doors. the cracking that you can see in one of the pics is all the way to the wood and will need some heavy TLC to fix.

[Rodre]

After travelling down a bumpy road a few of the screws actually fell out the top door hinge, revealing how rotted the wood inside is. I am lucky my entire door didn't fall off, but the bottom hinge is solid (so I think). Anyways it looks like it is time to do my door so I have a few questions for that have travelled down this road before me:

1. How to tell if my hinges need replacing? What am I looking for, corrosion, excess play?
2. Is the wood the hinges are screwed into "glassed" into the body? If I was to remove the hinges and peel back the ensolite would the wood just pop out?
3. Does the wood run the entire distance between the 2 hinges, or, is it 2 blocks of wood behind the hinges?
4. How do I remove the hinge pin to get the top screw out? Is it a pressure fitting or does it screw in? If it is a pressure fitting will it hold with the same force once I remove it and put it back?
5. What is the best thing to fill the holes with? Should I use epoxy and screw into this, or, should I use wood glue or gorrila glue to glue in a wood plug?
6. Which would be better for this, wood glue or gorrilla glue?
7. I am thinking about removing the ensolite from the back, repairing or replacing the wood if possible, then drilling through the repaired or replaced wood and mounting the door hinges back on the body side using a lag bolt, lok-tite and T-Nut, then putting the ensolite back over top the T-Nut hopefully hiding the whole repair. Any reason I shouldn't do this? will it work itself loose over time?
8. How can I seal the underside of the hinges to stop water getting in and rotting the wood again? I have some 3M marine adhesive sealant I use on my boat, should I put some of this somewhere to inhibit the water getting in, or should I look at using a thin rubber mat or perhaps some butyl tape?

If anyone has any other thoughts or ideas I would appreciate hearing about them. I only want to do this once and right. Thanks!

[Chris McVeigh]

Rod
Here is my old post on trillium hinges
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ics-37966.html
1] I replaced mine because they looked so bad after I had cleaned up the rest of the trailer - but after I got the new ones I was suprised how much play were in the old ones
4] It is hard to deal with the top screw just above the pin. I removed the other screws first then removed the hinge by backing off the top one last. When putting on the new hinge put the replacement screw in first to clear the pin.
Never tried to remove the pin but the wear does seem to be more with the hole in which it sits
6] I had luck with filling the screw holes with toothpicks and gorrilla glue.
7] Others have used stainless bolts instead with washer + acorn nuts holding things tight from the inside
8] I didn't use any seal under the hinge as there were no gaps - though a little dab of butyl wouldn't hurt.
The old screw threads just rusted away making things loose and letting more water in - the new stainless ones should hold up better.

Kason no. 139 3/8" offset
The serial # on the my hinge was 1070-174-54

[Rodre]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your reply. When you received your new hinges were they already assembled, or, where they in 3 pieces with the hinge pin out? I really don't think that even if I was to get the top screw out by cutting it etc, that I would be able to get the new screw in there. I was thinking to order new hinges just to get them in 3 pieces, but if they come already assembled I am probably going to be facing the same issue.

[Rodre]

Hi Chris,

I checked your other thread and my hinges look different I think. It looks like the head on the hinge pin on mine are bigger. It makes me wonder how they got the screw in there in the first place.

[freddie b]

Donna,
The Kason #139 comes in several flavours. The Trillium requires ones with a 3/8ths inch offset which apparently is specific to Trillium and not available elsewhere.
Cheers
Fred

[Chris McVeigh]

The hinge came assembled when they arrived from Team Trillium- Outback. I never got the top screw out on one of the old hinges either. For the new ones the screws were put in at an angle before attaching to the trailer and I was able to get them past the head of the pin. If that doesn't work then maybe grinding a little section to get enough clearance would

[freddie b]

Rodre,

1. Excess play. Corrosion is only cosmetic so it is your choice.

2. If I remember correctly the wood blocks are glassed TO the shell but not glassed over. Easy to get off once you have access to them. The rounded section of the wall down beside the door is a seperate piece if fibreglass that must have openings cut out to reach the wood blocks. Save the pieces to tab back in.

3. 2 blocks.

4. The pin should drive out fairly easily if necessary.

5. If the wood is not too rotten (as it might be in Mike & Sarah's case) then you may be able to drill out large holes 1/2 or 3/4 inch and epoxy pieces if dowel in to take the screws. In this case countersink the dowels a bit so the ends can be covered with epoxy.

6. Neither.

7. See #2 above. If you are replacing the blocks glass them solidly to the shell. When I did mine I glassed them in completely but this may not be the best way because any water that might find its way past the screws over time will have no way to evaporate thus contributing to rot. Then just drill and screw or else drill right through the blocks and use T-Nuts and machine scews.

8. A dab of acrylic caulking at the screws should be all you need for the next 20 or 30 years.

Good luck

[Rodre]

Hi Freddie,

When you say "neither" for question #6 above can i ask why? Should nothing be used? If so then why?

[freddie b]

Ok, my mistake. I thought you were talking about just filling holes in which case epoxy might work, but I see now that this is about installing plugs. I would not rely on wood glue for this application because of the possibility of dampness penetration. From my personal experience I think that epoxy would be a better long term solution than polyurethane adhesives like Gorilla Glue.

[Raz]

I had to reset my hinges. They were originally installed crooked. I filled the holes with PC-11 epoxy putty that I injected into the holes with a syringe. I made metal backing plates and bolted the hinges to the body. So far so good. Poke around, I posted pictures of the whole thing. Raz

[Wanderer]

Guilt, a door threatening to fall off or blow away, and P. Raz's excellent post pushed me into going out to my trailer today,despite the miserably cold weather, and using a metal putty knife, many curses and fingers , I pulled and taped back the liner, just as Raz did- Duct tape in my case. Using his clear pix as a guide, I marked in with felt pen the cut- outs and made a quick job of it with my Mastercraft multi tool, using the narrow blade for the short cuts and the circular blade for the longer verticals. My 1980 had nothing but the 'glass inner surface and failed hopes, with the threes screws clearly visible. No wood, no metal, nothing. Such rotten design and execution. Pathetic. My new hinges are already pulling away from the surface and the door is sagging worse than before, and binding on the moulding of the lower door surround. The hinges are not much better- fine for a frig door, but bad choice for a trailer door. And as others have pointed out, there is a problem getting those top screws in. There is also no room to properly countersink for a larger screw head. I will use Raz's idea of metal plates, which I will bond onto the 'glass surface, and locate everything using Raz's precision tool or an equally high tech modification. Some time in the new year I will get on with the chore, using thickened Cold Cure epoxy and SS machine screws with Robertson heads. I'll wax or grease the shanks as I assemble, so the epoxy will not capture the screws, and I'll adjust them periodically as the resin cures to further discourage bonding. The micro furnace will be running on HIGH. Thanks Raz

[Raz]

For what it's worth I made my plates from a piece of heavy steel salvaged from the back upright on a discarded office chair. It was probably 3/16" thick. You can't beat the price and when I use this stuff to fix the trailer it justifies my collection of junk to my very understanding wife. .

I used the hinge as a template to drill the plate. I did not bond them to the fiberglass. All the holes were drilled about 1/16" large to allow for adjustment. Lots of miles on the trailer since the repair and nothing has moved.

A magnet on a string is useful to have when you drop the plate as well as a stick with some double sided tape when you drop the stainless steel hardware that the magnet won't attract. Good luck, Raz

[Wanderer]

AHA! I thought that plate looked like scrap, with what looks like the vestiges of a rolled edge. My next door neighbour has lots of scrap plate and strap. I think 3/6" to 1/4" plate will do it, providing a number of full threads when tapped. I might even use alu plate as there is plenty of that around. I'm not worried about gauling, as it will be rain water if anything that gets in there, but I doubt that will happen, and I'll use anti seize compound as a matter of course. I was able to avoid this problem with my sail boat masts and booms, and they were constantly exposed to wind driven salt water. Thanks for your tips.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

AHA! I thought that plate looked like scrap, with what looks like the vestiges of a rolled edge. My next door neighbour has lots of scrap plate and strap. I think 3/6" to 1/4" plate will do it, providing a number of full threads when tapped. I might even use alu plate as there is plenty of that around. I'm not worried about gauling, as it will be rain water if anything that gets in there, but I doubt that will happen, and I'll use anti seize compound as a matter of course. I was able to avoid this problem with my sail boat masts and booms, and they were constantly exposed to wind driven salt water. Thanks for your tips.

I used stainless steel bolts (# 10 I think) with nylok nuts. I think the most recent California built Trilliums used an aluminum plate drilled and threaded when the door was installed. Since you are using an alternate approach to mine remember to post lots of pictures. Help the next guy out. Raz

[Wanderer]

^This latest little gem of info from you has just decided me, Raz! I too will use some alu plate I happen to have presently unemployed. It is about 1/4" or 6 mil. I'll drill some extra 1/4" holes in the plate after I drill and tap, to increase bonding contact. Yes, I'll attach pix when I get to the actual install. I'll have to find out how to attach pix, also.