How far or how long to drive to recharge a Casita 16' battery?

[Raspy]

Radar1,
I think you've been reading my posts.

[Lynn Eberhardt]

Check the trailer battery voltage with tow vehicle connected and running - fridge off. If voltage reads ~ 14V, battery is charging. Turn on fridge. If voltage drops to ~13V, battery is holding even but not charging. If voltage drops to 12.5V or less, battery is discharging.

[dleverton]

Originally Posted by Lisle

Wow, did this get technical. I'm going to have to read some of these posts several more times to understand. So, my 2018 Casita 16' has a quite new gel battery. As far as I can tell, there is no readout to tell you how much battery you have left on the Casita, and the only way to track it is to use a voltage meter on the actual battery, or by experience. This was my first 4 night camping trip so I'm lacking experience. I do understand the battery can be damaged by running it out. What do other people do to be sure they don't run their battery down too low? Do you actually pull out the battery and use a volt meter? How often?



Prior to this camping trip, the camper was plugged in to house power for 4 days. Then I drove a hundred miles and plugged it in overnight again. Then I drove close to 300mi to the campground for my 4 night stay. I would think the battery should have been fully charged at that point. I had the frig on 12V while driving, then switched to propane at the campsite. All the lights in the camper are LED and i rarely have more than 2 on at a time. So 3 evenings of running the heater fan intermittently and a couple hours of 1-2 LED lights seems to have been enough to drain the battery down to the bottom. From the posts above, I'm guessing this is not too surprising?



After posting the original thread here, it dawned on me that I could just pay a little extra and move to a campsite with electricity, which I did. I plugged in the camper to 30amp for 15 hrs, which I hoped would charge the battery. Then I drove 200mi using 12V for the frig and camped at a Walmart. I must have locked the refrigerator incorrectly because the contents of the frig were all over the floor -- suggesting that door was open at least some of the time and the 12V was trying to cool more than the small frig. I flushed the toilet once and brushed my teeth, had one LED on for less than an hour and went to bed. In the morning there was no electricity again. Would it be expected that the battery would still have had some charge if it is functioning properly? Does this suggest I damaged the battery by letting it run dry? How to tell if the battery is damaged?

Hey Lisle
The good news is that your gels are less susceptible to sulfating when fully discharged than conventional flooded lead acid, and that you did not leave them fully discharged for long, so any damage to them might be slight.
They are complex beasts.
I agree with the others that watching the voltage is very worthwhile so long as it doesn’t get in the way of feeding the chipmunks. If I see battery voltage drop below about 12V, I turn off all its loads (there isn’t much energy left by then anyway).

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by flaco

You will not regret it if you buy a nice 120W or so solar panel. Simple to use and not obnoxiously loud like a generator. They work well on cloudy days too. You won't be able to use 120V items like AC but who cares! You're camping so just use a fan if needed.

Well most generators including the open frame ones are pretty darned quiet. The inverter ones are even quieter. I run an open frame predator from Harbor Freight. I do a lot of equivelent to dry camping and never had a noise problem. Actually it got me yelled at.

Got sent as part of an disaster response to provide my generator to an EOC that was supposed to have generator power, but found out why you should test them regularly. When I arrived the IC told me that my absolute highest priority was getting my generator hooked up and providing power for the critical systems. About 30 minutes later I had it hooks up and running and had made sure everything was running OK. Then I grabbed a snack before setting up my scamp and getting a new assignment. The IC came running over and started yelling at me because I had ignored his directions. He could not hear the generator about 30 foot away so was sure that it was not running yet. ;-)

Yeah I can imagine dry camping without one. Solar forget it. Good for keeping the battery topped off and ready to go. But seriously lacking in what is needed for anything I do.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by dleverton

Hey Lisle

I agree with the others that watching the voltage is very worthwhile so long as it doesn’t get in the way of feeding the chipmunks. If I see battery voltage drop below about 12V, I turn off all its loads (there isn’t much energy left by then anyway).

Yeah monitoring the voltage is very important. I added a led voltage display to my scamp. What I did was spliced into the wiring inside of the cabinets and then mounted the meter in the face of the cabinet. I know how my charge is doing

https://www.qsradio.com/index.html

[M. Bober]

Originally Posted by Jann Todd

Most likely your whole problem is you are running the fridge on 12V while driving. Many vehicles will not keep up with the drain on the battery even while driving. My 2013 Yukon XL which has a good heavy duty charging system will not keep up with the drain on the trailer battery. The fridge will run down my trailer battery in about 4-6 hours even while it is being charged while driving. Use propane for the fridge while driving. I don't know why they even make a fridge with 12V since most of the time they run down the battery even when driving. One way we test our 12V system in the trailer is with a little tester that plugs into the 12V television receptacle above the bed. It has a lighted read out and you'd know what your battery is reading. You could plug in the trailer to a 30 amp receptacle or let it charge while driving with the fridge on propane and check the 12V to see what it reads after unhooking the charging system. If it is fully charged then check it later after using it for lights and pump only. It will go down a little after the charging is removed but not a lot. Then you can see if it will hold up. Just don't run the fridge on 12V. There's more technical ways to do this but this is a simple way for a newbie to find out easily. Don't ask me how I know all this. Just know I've been there done that.

I agree. I killed my original battery driving back from Rice while running the fridge on 12VDC. The tug could not keep up with the battery drain.



Jumper cables if you must.

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by computerspook

Yeah I can imagine dry camping without one. Solar forget it. Good for keeping the battery topped off and ready to go. But seriously lacking in what is needed for anything I do.

Generators are great for running 110 volt appliances like the A/C, but in many campgrounds, like Blackwoods in Acadia, you can't run a generator at all in Loop B, and you are limited to two short periods per day in the other loop.
"No generators allowed in B-Loop. Generators may only be used in A-Loop during the following times: (8am-10am, 4pm-7pm). You must be at your campsite when running your generator. Please be mindful of how generator noise affects other campers."
Those are the places where solar shines, as you can charge your battery enough during the day to run the propane furnace at night and don't have to be at the campsite while it's charging, unlike the generator.

[Glenn Baglo]

I have a Honda EU1000i that stays home since i got a couple 40 watt solar panels. The Honda is very quiet, but I don't need the aggravation of carrying fuel for it or performing the maintenance it requires.

When it comes to noise, I find it takes very little to irritate some people.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Radar1

Generators are great for running 110 volt appliances like the A/C, but in many campgrounds, like Blackwoods in Acadia, you can't run a generator at all in Loop B, and you are limited to two short periods per day in the other loop.
"No generators allowed in B-Loop. Generators may only be used in A-Loop during the following times: (8am-10am, 4pm-7pm). You must be at your campsite when running your generator. Please be mindful of how generator noise affects other campers."
Those are the places where solar shines, as you can charge your battery enough during the day to run the propane furnace at night and don't have to be at the campsite while it's charging, unlike the generator.

I was looking at what it would cost me to get a solar array that would actually power things and it would cost several times with a generator would cost. And frankly I've got a big storage battery and it won't last my night a lot of times.

Guess a lot of that depends on what you're doing

[computerspook]

I always just forget the stupid fridge latches. I know nobody who's 100% successful at using them even when they do latch them "properly". I always just set up a velcro strap and those work perfect.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by computerspook

He could not hear the generator about 30 foot away so was sure that it was not running yet. ;-)

Yeah I can imagine dry camping without one. Solar forget it. Good for keeping the battery topped off and ready to go. But seriously lacking in what is needed for anything I do.

I hope you are not trying to convince all of us who do, or did, use generators, that we really could not hear them running. Or our neighbors could not hear them, or that the camp rules against them were for no reason, etc.

BTW, camping solar systems are not designed too run high amp equipment. They are designed to charge batteries, that then can run high amp equipment for short bursts, through an inverter. And they do that very well. No solar system will continuously run high demand equipment. It takes a battery bank and an inverter to match the daytime collection times to the high demand loads, like a microwave, or toaster.

Not being able to do the impossible, does not mean solar is not practical. And generators are plenty loud enough to be annoying in a quiet campground setting, even if your IC doesn't know it. I can easily hear a well insulated generator a hundred yards away, so I don't get how an open frame one cannot be heard 30 feet away. The forest and the desert, at night, are quiet. Sitting outside, one can hear birds wings swishing the air as they fly by. Crickets, frogs, coyotes in the distance. A generator is a huge invasion.

Generators, with their noise and fumes are a nuisance, and because of that, mine stays at home. If someone tried to run a generator at night in Yosemite, or Grand Canyon, for instance, there would be trouble.

I'll take solar, even if it can't run the AC or my arc welder.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Raspy

I hope you are not trying to convince all of us who do, or did, use generators, that we really could not hear them running. Or our neighbors could not hear them, or that the camp rules against them were for no reason, etc.

BTW, camping solar systems are not designed too run high amp equipment. They are designed to charge batteries, that then can run high amp equipment for short bursts, through an inverter. And they do that very well. No solar system will continuously run high demand equipment. It takes a battery bank and an inverter to match the daytime collection times to the high demand loads, like a microwave, or toaster.

Not being able to do the impossible, does not mean solar is not practical. And generators are plenty loud enough to be annoying in a quiet campground setting, even if your IC doesn't know it. I can easily hear a well insulated generator a hundred yards away, so I don't get how an open frame one cannot be heard 30 feet away. The forest and the desert, at night, are quiet. Sitting outside, one can hear birds wings swishing the air as they fly by. Crickets, frogs, coyotes in the distance. A generator is a huge invasion.

Generators, with their noise and fumes are a nuisance, and because of that, mine stays at home. If someone tried to run a generator at night in Yosemite, or Grand Canyon, for instance, there would be trouble.

I'll take solar, even if it can't run the AC or my arc welder.

Certainly find that there are a lot of annoying sounds at some of the places that I do camp that our louder than my generator. I have run radios on a tent in the winter with an inverter generator right outside and only realized that it had shut down because the backup batteries came on. And most of the time the radios are not making any noise. Just the wind noises were louder.

And should be discuss "music" and partying ;-) Generally two or more drunks are noiser than an open frame without a muffler.

I use a breather at night and the battery will not run that all night. I have tried. Also find that my furnace will also drain it over night without a generator.



But yeah running a laptop and a radio several hours kills a battery charge.


Just keeping my phone and tablet charged would take more of a solar panel than what I pay for a generator. That is without anything in the camper.


I will say that I do tune my open frame regularly and that makes more of a difference than most people realize. Also I will admit that the IC may have been expecting a military noise level generator. I have worked a number in incidents where the military also responded. Their generators were noisy enough that at 1/2 mile away and mine at a convenient distance from my camper for my 25 foot extension and the 10 foot built in, I could not hear my generator over theirs. And I was in the end powering more than they were. One of our county EMA offices has a trailer based generator and it is generally quieter at night that the frogs and crickets.

Not to knock the military response to much. They are a great help. And they bring better food than the Red Cross. But not as good as the Baptists. And if the Amish respond you will be eating better than you normally ever get a chance to. ;-) By the way yes if the incident is within range of them, yes they generally show up in surprisingly large numbers and their wives and children show up a few hours later with enough food for all of the responders. And they do know how to get things done. I also work for them and they work for me at times. Great people to work with.

But you are partially right. I pretty much never am dry camping where people are, or I am doing so where they people want me there and what my generator can do for them. I will frequently have multiple locations hooked up to it. There is one camp where there are other campers who are their. Public campground with no generator rules. And the highest area for a couple hundred miles around it. I set myself up by my self at that location. But when some of the campers find that I don't object to them pulling 50-100 watts from my generator I find my side of the camp getting full ;-)


I have a phone and tablet charge station that is weather reistant and goes on top the generator ;-) That solves a lot of complaints.

[Raspy]

Ray,

Thanks for the response. Emergency response teams are invaluable, and we are lucky to have them. But camping is a different animal.

Many, or most camps have campground rules that are designed to stop loud "music and partying" late at night. I love to sit up at night next to a fire and talk. I go there to have fun. But loud drunks and blasting music would cross the line in most cases. And mostly, I go to more remote places where that can never be a problem.

Sounds like you need more battery power, or something. My usage is anything but conservative, and I can get by for at least three days and nights without any charging. Heater, lighting, watching movies, charging phones and computers, etc. With a bit of solar and some careful use, it should be almost unlimited. Then a quick top-off with the jumper cables, if needed, and I'm good to go for another period.

I guess living in an emergency response situation, vs simply camping quietly, out in the wild, are quite different.

Cheers!

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Raspy

I guess living in an emergency response situation, vs simply camping quietly, out in the wild, are quite different.

Cheers!

I guess. Perhaps you can explain what you do that the military and other government emergency response cannot do.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I guess. Perhaps you can explain what you do that the military and other government emergency response cannot do.

Cannot do?

Or maybe they are not there to do. How about rescue, train, and provide emergency response as needed. Are you kidding, or don't you know the difference between emergency response, training camps, and recreational camping?

I can see helicopters landing, firefighters deploying, marines training, FEMA equipment being staged, rescue operations being deployed, temporary hospitals getting set up, fire response teams being supported, etc. Mobile generator trailers, shower trailers for the firefighters, trucks and equipment being staged, etc. Look at forest fires, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, and general military training deployment.

All this vs. individuals enjoying a quiet time in a remote spot with their families, in open spaces and national parks, or hiking, studying the wildlife or learning history. Or maybe just quietly getting away from it all and camping with a few friends.

In one case, noise is totally fine. In the other, quiet and consideration for others is the rule.

Does that explain it sufficiently? Or did I miss your meaning?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Does that explain it sufficiently? Or did I miss your meaning?

I think you completely missed my meaning.
Emergency agencies have SAT phone, Cell phones, their own radio frequencies, land lines and communication centres staffed by trained people. I don't understand how Ham radio makes a contribution.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I don't understand how Ham makes a contribution.

Ham can be used to make excellent sandwiches while out camping. It's really quite simple.

It works for breakfast too!

A few avocado slices, some fine bread, maybe some tomato, or a few jalapeños. You know the drill. Excellent lunch material. It really makes a nice contribution to any camping trip.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Ray,

Thanks for the response. Emergency response teams are invaluable, and we are lucky to have them. But camping is a different animal.

Many, or most camps have campground rules that are designed to stop loud "music and partying" late at night. I love to sit up at night next to a fire and talk. I go there to have fun. But loud drunks and blasting music would cross the line in most cases. And mostly, I go to more remote places where that can never be a problem.

Sounds like you need more battery power, or something. My usage is anything but conservative, and I can get by for at least three days and nights without any charging. Heater, lighting, watching movies, charging phones and computers, etc. With a bit of solar and some careful use, it should be almost unlimited. Then a quick top-off with the jumper cables, if needed, and I'm good to go for another period.

I guess living in an emergency response situation, vs simply camping quietly, out in the wild, are quite different.

Cheers!

I have about as big of battery as I can. I had the box for the battery on my scamp replaced with the next size bigger. Which is about as big as they get. A big part of the problem is my breather (VPAP) I had an $800 solar setup that I lost in my apartment fire. But never had good luck with it so never replaced it.

I do a lot of camping at normal camp grounds that have electric. I do some others that don't have rules. I also at times use one of the single sites our state has that are basically a gravel pad. There are a couple more places where I just go and bring my own accommodations. I do radio contests from my church parking lot at times and normally those contests require the use of a generator or I use shore power.

I also camp quite a bit for work. Instead of a hotel they just need to get me three parking spots at the site with access to water and electric.


And then I do get asked to go help at areas hit by incidents.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

I think you completely missed my meaning.
Emergency agencies have SAT phone, Cell phones, their own radio frequencies, land lines and communication centres staffed by trained people. I don't understand how Ham radio makes a contribution.

Lets see they have cell phones which even with the towers up will not work, and will be weeks getting going again. Sat phones are expensive. A lot of what I do on the ham radio side is actually get those "own radio frequiencies" working. Land lines are well land lines. They have to be run and have to be operational. And that is seldom the case. And alot of times the land lines are dependent on ac power at the location. One thing I have done is spend days coordinating with other hams and getting locations rewired with line based phones which they can use until the power comes back.

I also do a lot of other things besides ham. Damage assessment. I radio direction finding at times. I have gone places to assist the chaplin's service in providing service. I have worked with teams rebuilding those facilities you think that the police and fire will have and will be using after an event. Some of that is the reason that I got my camper. After Katrina I made several trips into the effected area and well may be a bit soft, but didn't like my accommodations. Spending 6 weeks sleeping in a simi wet sleeping back laid on card board on picnic tables that survived in a picnic shelter at a park can get old real fast. We were removing the remains of the fire stations and putting back a place that the engines and firemen could sleep in.

So the answer is to be trained and then do what is needed.

[Anthonysherwood]

Originally Posted by Lisle

So I've been camping for 3 nights in Maine. Nights have been cold. During the evening, while sitting up reading, I ran the heater a fair amount. Also ran some lights and a little water. Frig was on propane. Apparently my battery has gone dead because the lights and the pump aren't working. Tried to turn on the heater, but without electricity for the fan, it won't run. Interesting that the propane alarm light is off, but the alarm didn't go off, which I think it is supposed to when it's out of electricity? It's now 60 degrees at 3PM and going down to 44 tonight. Planning to stay one more night and it would be really nice to just warm things up once before going to bed. Thinking about hooking up the camper and going for a drive to recharge the batteries. Wondering if an hour of driving would put some decent charge on the battery?
I'll probably give it a try, AND would love any advice. Also wondering how people can boondocks for a week or more and not use up the battery? Solar panels required for that?

Well if you're anywhere close to east Texas I've got a brand new a 50 watt solar panel charge regulator mounts and all I'll take $120 for it it's the Molly crystal panels a good one you could have a bad battery a bad cell why it's not keeping a charge and you don't really have to drive your camper around to charge the battery just plug it in and do your 7-way and crank your truck up let it sit there and idle shouldn't be a problem if it's in good shape make sure your fuse on your charge circuit from your truck to your battery the camper hasn't blown I was in the RV business for about 30 years fairly simple or you if you have room if you have a 24 group battery you can put two batteries on the front of your Casita I've owned two of them fix them by my third but you can get back to me anytime my name is Tony maybe I can help you you have a great day