Ideas Wanted - New Propane Install - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-05-2010, 08:01 AM   #15
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Atwood 8012 II
$379 on ebay w/$29 shipping and they have very good feedback
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Atwood Hydroflame 8012 II RV Camper Furnace 12,000 BTUs on eBay!

an installation with pics that i ran across while looking.
TheSamba.com :: View topic - Atwood Hydroflame 8012 furnace into kitchenette (with pics)
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:49 AM   #16
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Bill,

I love the EggCamper for it's flexible space. If you're handy, there are lots of options for customizing space.

I also have a Honda 2000i that I've used when off the grid, like most of the time in the state/fed campgrounds up here in the north. Eventually, I'd like to leave it home and use solar to recharge. Most of our cooking is done out of doors on a small propane stove, so the only real issue is heat in the early spring and fall months. The fridge is very efficient and the 8012 looks to be equally efficient. I think a few extra $ is worth it if I can run off the grid.

I haven't done all my homework on where to put a propane tank, and I'm not sure how long the 8012 will run on a small tank. But, I think that 12,000 btu is plenty for the size of the space.

I'm sorry that you won't make the Mid Atlantic Rally. I love to swap ideas on the EggCamper.

Ron

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Originally Posted by Bill Robison View Post
Ron -

I remember seeing your drawer mod - nice idea! Yes, the 8012 furnace should be a near-perfect fit for the heater opening - that's one more small advantage over the Suburban, which is 9.5" square vs the rectangle.

I put a Contico box on the tongue of our EggCamper - fits perfectly! It holds the Honda 2000i generator,crank, cord, funnel, etc and still has JUST enough room for a 20# LP tank. I cut out some 'webbing support' on the underside of the lid so it slips over the top of the 20# and 'locks' it in place.
I noticed that Menards (like Lowes) has a 'tall' 11# tank that is much smaller than a 20# in width and height - only $45. I'm toying with getting one if the 20# proves to be too tight of a fit, but would like to see how much fuel we would use before making changes.

Bill
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron F View Post

I haven't done all my homework on where to put a propane tank, and I'm not sure how long the 8012 will run on a small tank. But, I think that 12,000 btu is plenty for the size of the space.

I'm sorry that you won't make the Mid Atlantic Rally. I love to swap ideas on the EggCamper.

Ron
If my web links are accurate, 1 gallon of LPG contains 91,690 BTUs. This gives a total of 433,693.7 BTUs of energy in a 5 gal 20 lb tank. That means your heater could run continuously at maximum 12k btu for about 48 hours. In practice I think you'll get a week to ten nights in very cold climates or a month of just taking the chill off.

Regards,

Matt
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:24 PM   #18
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We have a Mr. Heater Portable Buddy and have been happy with it as a backup to our furnace when we have limited electricity. Of course since it is not vented to the outside a window or vent needs to be opened a bit.

Mr. Heater Portable Buddy does not use electricity, but those 1# propane bottles are expensive! It will run from a 20# tank but the tank must stay outside. You can run a hose inside, but without a regulator you are bringing high pressure propane into the trailer through a potentially vulnerable hose. You can find a propane refill adapter that will allow you to refill 1# bottles from a 20# bottle, though the 20# bottle must be turned upside down. People have different opinions as to the safety of refilling 1# propane bottles.

Should you get a regulator to reduce the propane pressure from your 20# tank, the Mr. Heater Portable Buddy will not work without modification as it has its own regulator. A friend of ours bypassed the regulator in the Mr. Heater Portable Buddy so it will run from a low-pressure propane supply. Perhaps you might be able to find someone to do that for you. We have had no problems with this arrangement.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Robison View Post
Ron -

I remember seeing your drawer mod - nice idea! Yes, the 8012 furnace should be a near-perfect fit for the heater opening - that's one more small advantage over the Suburban, which is 9.5" square vs the rectangle.

I put a Contico box on the tongue of our EggCamper - fits perfectly! It holds the Honda 2000i generator,crank, cord, funnel, etc and still has JUST enough room for a 20# LP tank. I cut out some 'webbing support' on the underside of the lid so it slips over the top of the 20# and 'locks' it in place.
I noticed that Menards (like Lowes) has a 'tall' 11# tank that is much smaller than a 20# in width and height - only $45. I'm toying with getting one if the 20# proves to be too tight of a fit, but would like to see how much fuel we would use before making changes.

Bill
Can I put my input here?

I just installed a 18,000 Btu which puts out 13,680 Btu's of heat. My furnace kicks on twice every hour. It stays on for about 12-13 minutes each hr. I keep the temps at 64-68. It takes about 25-27 min for the furnace to kick back on after it shuts off. I have been keeping records when I wake @ 3-7 am each day for the past three mornings since I installed it on Monday. However it uses 3.4 instead of 1.8. I would go up to at least the 16,000 BTU puts out 12,160 btu's to keep the same 1.8 battery output. I paid 404.00 from Atwood who shipped it at that price from Washington State to Pittsburgh, Pa.

A 12,000 puts out 9,160 Btu's A 6x10 trailer needs 1,080 Btu's to keep it warm. That's an uninsulated trailer.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:43 AM   #20
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Joe, Ron, Matt, Tim and Russell -

Again, nice discussion! To bring everyone up-to-date in my situation...

I considered the eBay purchase mentioned above, but since I am so cheap (read frugal) I decided to go directly to the 'home' websites of some of the vendors offering the 8012 on eBay. I found Panther RV in WA to have a better price on their site than eBay. I ordered the 8012 including the black grill (match the fridge) and the C vent kit since I need the extra length (and by itself sells for $75) for $349 + $40 = $389 S&H. Furnace is scheduled to arrive Jan 4th. I did not order the thermostat or the LP/CO alarm from Panther, since they're S&H is outrageous - I can get them both on eBay.

Appreciate the BTU stats - I figure if the furnace is fired about 15 min out of 60 for 10 hours per day - 20# tank should last about 10-12 days? Less in much colder clim, but even if I only get a week of good heat from 20#I would be very pleased! Menards sells a 'tall' 11# tank for $45 - if everything works as planned I may get one for 'back-up' and outside cook stove to eliminate the 1# tank altogether? If I go that direction - I will have 30# LP, 105AH battery, 15 watt solar and 2000i Honda generator as back-up and/or battery charger - - that gives us a possible two to three weeks off grid potential ;-)

Regarding the 8012 choice - my first consideration was to keep 12v draw low as possible (1.8 amp is great), 2nd consideration was BTU output - I sought out opinion from Orlen who put a 19,000 BTU Suburban in his EggCamper kit and has put it to the test at LOW temps for extended periods of time. He told me next time he would go smaller for two reasons - use less LP and would cook you out ( he already owned the 19K Sub). He figures the 12K should be about right, as do I since the factory electric heater is 1,000 watt which is equal to about 3,000 BTU. The electric heater provided about 80% of what we needed at 12 F and the 12K provides 3 times the heat (9,160 BTU vs 3,000) of the electric heater. I'm trying to decide if I want to leave the electric heater installed along with the 8012 - I think I do.

I'm considering doing something like the attached mock-up for the install - cut out a complete section of fiberglass from galley top to floor - reinforce from the inside with wood strips - custom make a couple small drawers from the top (self-supporting and 22" deep) - not sure about the bottom section, but the new furnace will be in the middle. I will look around the egg to see if I can re-locate the elec heater to other than front of galley - that would make a nice storage spot. I don't really want the 'look' of the GFI and switch (for 1K heater) on the front of the galley - I can easily move them to a more functional and less obtrusive location. How about some feedback...
Attached Thumbnails
BlackGrill.png   Galley Mod.jpg  

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Old 12-30-2010, 11:01 AM   #21
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Hi Bill,
Frugal is good! It looks like your plans for drawers are similar to what I did. You'll be very happy having them. I love the EggCamper for the space that it offers and the opportunity to customize it to what I want.

I didn't relocate the GFI, but if I were going to move it, I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the vertical surface to the left end of the counter top, on the side facing the sink. It would probably take some snaking to get the wiring there, but it would be very convenient for counter-top appliances. You'd probably need to use a shallow box for the receptacle. I thought of putting a shallow box on the side facing the door and adding a switch for the porch light that I added, but then I just went with a porch light from Camping World that had an integrated switch.

For me, I'd probably be satisfied mounting an 11# tank on the tongue. We aren't planning any extended trips to the frozen north and we'd use the heat more for chilly nights like they're getting down south right now. Then, just filling the tank as needed, probably not that often.

I look forward to seeing more photos, especially for the tank mounting, etc.

Ron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Robison View Post
Joe, Ron, Matt, Tim and Russell -

Again, nice discussion! To bring everyone up-to-date in my situation...

I considered the eBay purchase mentioned above, but since I am so cheap (read frugal) I decided to go directly to the 'home' websites of some of the vendors offering the 8012 on eBay. I found Panther RV in WA to have a better price on their site than eBay. I ordered the 8012 including the black grill (match the fridge) and the C vent kit since I need the extra length (and by itself sells for $75) for $349 + $40 = $389 S&H. Furnace is scheduled to arrive Jan 4th. I did not order the thermostat or the LP/CO alarm from Panther, since they're S&H is outrageous - I can get them both on eBay.

Appreciate the BTU stats - I figure if the furnace is fired about 15 min out of 60 for 10 hours per day - 20# tank should last about 10-12 days? Less in much colder clim, but even if I only get a week of good heat from 20#I would be very pleased! Menards sells a 'tall' 11# tank for $45 - if everything works as planned I may get one for 'back-up' and outside cook stove to eliminate the 1# tank altogether? If I go that direction - I will have 30# LP, 105AH battery, 15 watt solar and 2000i Honda generator as back-up and/or battery charger - - that gives us a possible two to three weeks off grid potential ;-)

Regarding the 8012 choice - my first consideration was to keep 12v draw low as possible (1.8 amp is great), 2nd consideration was BTU output - I sought out opinion from Orlen who put a 19,000 BTU Suburban in his EggCamper kit and has put it to the test at LOW temps for extended periods of time. He told me next time he would go smaller for two reasons - use less LP and would cook you out ( he already owned the 19K Sub). He figures the 12K should be about right, as do I since the factory electric heater is 1,000 watt which is equal to about 3,000 BTU. The electric heater provided about 80% of what we needed at 12 F and the 12K provides 3 times the heat (9,160 BTU vs 3,000) of the electric heater. I'm trying to decide if I want to leave the electric heater installed along with the 8012 - I think I do.

I'm considering doing something like the attached mock-up for the install - cut out a complete section of fiberglass from galley top to floor - reinforce from the inside with wood strips - custom make a couple small drawers from the top (self-supporting and 22" deep) - not sure about the bottom section, but the new furnace will be in the middle. I will look around the egg to see if I can re-locate the elec heater to other than front of galley - that would make a nice storage spot. I don't really want the 'look' of the GFI and switch (for 1K heater) on the front of the galley - I can easily move them to a more functional and less obtrusive location. How about some feedback...
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:10 AM   #22
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Russell,

I noticed that you show "In the Market" for your trailer, but you refer to installing the 18K Btu unit. Have you acquired an egg that you're keeping a secret?

Thanks for the stats on your install. How big is the trailer that you're heating with the 18K unit?

Ron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell A View Post
Can I put my input here?

I just installed a 18,000 Btu which puts out 13,680 Btu's of heat. My furnace kicks on twice every hour. It stays on for about 12-13 minutes each hr. I keep the temps at 64-68. It takes about 25-27 min for the furnace to kick back on after it shuts off. I have been keeping records when I wake @ 3-7 am each day for the past three mornings since I installed it on Monday. However it uses 3.4 instead of 1.8. I would go up to at least the 16,000 BTU puts out 12,160 btu's to keep the same 1.8 battery output. I paid 404.00 from Atwood who shipped it at that price from Washington State to Pittsburgh, Pa.

A 12,000 puts out 9,160 Btu's A 6x10 trailer needs 1,080 Btu's to keep it warm. That's an uninsulated trailer.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:25 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron F View Post
Hi Bill,
Frugal is good! It looks like your plans for drawers are similar to what I did.

I didn't relocate the GFI, but if I were going to move it, I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the vertical surface to the left end of the counter top, on the side facing the sink.
Ron -

I am thinking of the same location for the GFI - it is easy to snake wires up there - will have to see what box will fit there.

Yes, the drawer idea most likely was incubated by your post a while back - hope you don't mind if I borrow your concept ;-) After traveling 10,000 miles with the egg, we can see that a couple nice drawers will be very handy at meal time. I did a closet mod similar to yours using metal shelves and plastic containers - lots of storage, but still not quite as handy as drawers.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:36 AM   #24
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Russell,

I noticed that you show "In the Market" for your trailer, but you refer to installing the 18K Btu unit. Have you acquired an egg that you're keeping a secret?

Thanks for the stats on your install. How big is the trailer that you're heating with the 18K unit?

Ron
I am looking to purchase one but I am living in a 6x10 utility trailer for now. I had a blue flame heater which was dumping water inside on all the walls. (Not insulated) Was suppose to be a camper for my wife and I but she only got to use it with me for three trips until she passed away in 2007. Anyway I had to move into it w/o insulating it as money and time didn't allow for it.
So I just received the new heater Christmas Eve and completed installing it on Monday. The stats are taken each morning but I compare my trailer to an FG so I watch for ideas. I just happened to have been watching this tread and posted. It has cut down on the moisture considerably. I hope it helped. Once I do get one (I have my eye on one near my place) I probably will remove that furnace and install mine.

Might I suggest also to install the heater on the bottom to keep the heat their longer. I have mine on the floor and it keeps my feet warm while I make my food. It soon rises anyway so why not use it at the feet first. Of course you can always use a fan to circulate the air evenly anyway. Just a suggestion. I really was just going to be lurker as I know my trailer is not FG. But the furnace issue I felt I had something to give. I hope it helped.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #25
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Bill,
It would be simple to move the outlet to the side, in fact I'm installing an outlet on each side. But your switch is what I do not understand, my electric unit has an off/on switch on the unit and a turn type thermostat, no separate switch was installed. Perhaps you can do away with it?
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Bill,
It would be simple to move the outlet to the side, in fact I'm installing an outlet on each side. But your switch is what I do not understand, my electric unit has an off/on switch on the unit and a turn type thermostat, no separate switch was installed. Perhaps you can do away with it?
Hi Jim -

We don't really use 120v appliances often - I think the duplex by the micro and one other in the galley area will be more than enough. Also, I would like to eliminate the possibility of 120v cords reaching across the sink area.

The heater switch was installed by the factory as a 'safety' on the original order request (we are officially second owners). It can be eliminated without problems, but it is a nice safety feature - I think I will relocate it above the closet along with the water heater and pump switches.

How about some photos of your mods? How are you coming with your mods?
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Robison View Post
Hi Jim -

We don't really use 120v appliances often - I think the duplex by the micro and one other in the galley area will be more than enough. Also, I would like to eliminate the possibility of 120v cords reaching across the sink area.

The heater switch was installed by the factory as a 'safety' on the original order request (we are officially second owners). It can be eliminated without problems, but it is a nice safety feature - I think I will relocate it above the closet along with the water heater and pump switches.

How about some photos of your mods? How are you coming with your mods?
I have a basement full of Camping World, Jensen, Seelevel boxes, waiting for it to go above freezing so I can start. I will have a busy Spring. I have completed most of them......on paper..... and in my mind!!!!!
partial list-
100% LED outside light replacements,3 extra 12 v outlets-1 by tv and 1 underneath for Engel refer
1 extra 120 v outlets-by bed and tv,fix existing 120 v outlets. outlet by door reinstall
new tires/wheels- spring-done,new sears #29 battery- spring,floor polish for outside-spring
new mount tv-done,take cooler for food/drinks,new water heater- completed-done,winterizing bypass-completed-done
led conversion-completed inside-wooden floor cover,led- outside. led install inside-12v line,futon mattress.see level gauges install,solar on new tongue tool box,30 amp detachable conversion,antenna/cable tv hookup. inside antenna install
enlarge storage area exterior access on driver side,install 2 sliding shelves unver bed opening, replace vent cover with clear, new am/fm/cd/weather radio install, outside shower on door side,fix bumper rust. Install Wave III propane heater by door with 5lb tank
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:31 PM   #28
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Furnace + Cube Heater + Wave 3

Our Scamp 5er came with a furnace. For the first few years we used a cube heater when we had hookups and the furnace for times we didn't. Last year we added a Wave 3 catalytic heater to the mix, and I gotta say it's been a great addition.

The Wave 3 is all but silent (if you listen carefully you can hear the gas coming out), uses no electricity, is odor-free, and, even set on low, can keep our 19' trailer warm when camping at altitude.

When using it you have to crack a window and vent open just a tad to both keep fresh, oxygenated air coming in and to let the combustion byproducts (carbon dioxide and water vapor) out. We crack the window over the Wave 3 and the vent over our bed, and that works very well.

When we get back from a hike and it's cold outside and in, we'll often turn on both the Wave 3 and the furnace to toast up the trailer, and set the furnace to click off at 65F or so, then let the Wave 3 take over. Oftentimes we have to turn it to "low" it gets so warm inside.

Nighttimes we set the Wave 3 on low and the furnace to 58F or so, but the furnace rarely clicks on. (Has to be freezing temperatures outside for it to do that.) We sleep warm and cozy in a quiet trailer with minimal use of our bettery.

There are times, I think, when the Wave 3 would not be our first choice. Humid locations, for one, because the combustion byproducts of the Wave 3 include water vapor. When we camp in the Olympic Rain Forest, we'll probably lump it on battery use and use the furnace so we can avoid having it rain inside as well as out.

If aI had to oick one and not the other, my choice would depend on two things:

First, whether I planned to do a lot of Solar-Powered boondocking. With our all LED lighting and 105 watts of roof-mounted solar panels, our Scamp can go for weeks without hookups and still have juice to run the TV, radio, computers, and other goodies if we don't run the furnace a lot.

I'd also pick the Wave 3 if we planned to do a lot of alpine camping. At 7000-8000 feet it seems to do a better job of heating the trailer than the furnace does.

And I'd pick the Wave 3 if my camping partner had problems sleeping when a furnace roars off and on twice or three times an hour.

Absent these things, I kinda prefer the furnace.
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