Ideas Wanted - New Propane Install

[Ron F]

Hi Bill,
Frugal is good! It looks like your plans for drawers are similar to what I did. You'll be very happy having them. I love the EggCamper for the space that it offers and the opportunity to customize it to what I want.

I didn't relocate the GFI, but if I were going to move it, I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the vertical surface to the left end of the counter top, on the side facing the sink. It would probably take some snaking to get the wiring there, but it would be very convenient for counter-top appliances. You'd probably need to use a shallow box for the receptacle. I thought of putting a shallow box on the side facing the door and adding a switch for the porch light that I added, but then I just went with a porch light from Camping World that had an integrated switch.

For me, I'd probably be satisfied mounting an 11# tank on the tongue. We aren't planning any extended trips to the frozen north and we'd use the heat more for chilly nights like they're getting down south right now. Then, just filling the tank as needed, probably not that often.

I look forward to seeing more photos, especially for the tank mounting, etc.

Ron

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Joe, Ron, Matt, Tim and Russell -

Again, nice discussion! To bring everyone up-to-date in my situation...

I considered the eBay purchase mentioned above, but since I am so cheap (read frugal) I decided to go directly to the 'home' websites of some of the vendors offering the 8012 on eBay. I found Panther RV in WA to have a better price on their site than eBay. I ordered the 8012 including the black grill (match the fridge) and the C vent kit since I need the extra length (and by itself sells for $75) for $349 + $40 = $389 S&H. Furnace is scheduled to arrive Jan 4th. I did not order the thermostat or the LP/CO alarm from Panther, since they're S&H is outrageous - I can get them both on eBay.

Appreciate the BTU stats - I figure if the furnace is fired about 15 min out of 60 for 10 hours per day - 20# tank should last about 10-12 days? Less in much colder clim, but even if I only get a week of good heat from 20#I would be very pleased! Menards sells a 'tall' 11# tank for $45 - if everything works as planned I may get one for 'back-up' and outside cook stove to eliminate the 1# tank altogether? If I go that direction - I will have 30# LP, 105AH battery, 15 watt solar and 2000i Honda generator as back-up and/or battery charger - - that gives us a possible two to three weeks off grid potential ;-)

Regarding the 8012 choice - my first consideration was to keep 12v draw low as possible (1.8 amp is great), 2nd consideration was BTU output - I sought out opinion from Orlen who put a 19,000 BTU Suburban in his EggCamper kit and has put it to the test at LOW temps for extended periods of time. He told me next time he would go smaller for two reasons - use less LP and would cook you out ( he already owned the 19K Sub). He figures the 12K should be about right, as do I since the factory electric heater is 1,000 watt which is equal to about 3,000 BTU. The electric heater provided about 80% of what we needed at 12º F and the 12K provides 3 times the heat (9,160 BTU vs 3,000) of the electric heater. I'm trying to decide if I want to leave the electric heater installed along with the 8012 - I think I do.

I'm considering doing something like the attached mock-up for the install - cut out a complete section of fiberglass from galley top to floor - reinforce from the inside with wood strips - custom make a couple small drawers from the top (self-supporting and 22" deep) - not sure about the bottom section, but the new furnace will be in the middle. I will look around the egg to see if I can re-locate the elec heater to other than front of galley - that would make a nice storage spot. I don't really want the 'look' of the GFI and switch (for 1K heater) on the front of the galley - I can easily move them to a more functional and less obtrusive location. How about some feedback...

[Ron F]

Russell,

I noticed that you show "In the Market" for your trailer, but you refer to installing the 18K Btu unit. Have you acquired an egg that you're keeping a secret?

Thanks for the stats on your install. How big is the trailer that you're heating with the 18K unit?

Ron

Originally Posted by Russell A

Can I put my input here?

I just installed a 18,000 Btu which puts out 13,680 Btu's of heat. My furnace kicks on twice every hour. It stays on for about 12-13 minutes each hr. I keep the temps at 64-68. It takes about 25-27 min for the furnace to kick back on after it shuts off. I have been keeping records when I wake @ 3-7 am each day for the past three mornings since I installed it on Monday. However it uses 3.4 instead of 1.8. I would go up to at least the 16,000 BTU puts out 12,160 btu's to keep the same 1.8 battery output. I paid 404.00 from Atwood who shipped it at that price from Washington State to Pittsburgh, Pa.

A 12,000 puts out 9,160 Btu's A 6x10 trailer needs 1,080 Btu's to keep it warm. That's an uninsulated trailer.

[Bill Robison]

Originally Posted by Ron F

Hi Bill,
Frugal is good! It looks like your plans for drawers are similar to what I did.

I didn't relocate the GFI, but if I were going to move it, I wonder if it would be possible to move it to the vertical surface to the left end of the counter top, on the side facing the sink.

Ron -

I am thinking of the same location for the GFI - it is easy to snake wires up there - will have to see what box will fit there.

Yes, the drawer idea most likely was incubated by your post a while back - hope you don't mind if I borrow your concept ;-) After traveling 10,000 miles with the egg, we can see that a couple nice drawers will be very handy at meal time. I did a closet mod similar to yours using metal shelves and plastic containers - lots of storage, but still not quite as handy as drawers.

[Russell A]

Originally Posted by Ron F

Russell,

I noticed that you show "In the Market" for your trailer, but you refer to installing the 18K Btu unit. Have you acquired an egg that you're keeping a secret?

Thanks for the stats on your install. How big is the trailer that you're heating with the 18K unit?

Ron

I am looking to purchase one but I am living in a 6x10 utility trailer for now. I had a blue flame heater which was dumping water inside on all the walls. (Not insulated) Was suppose to be a camper for my wife and I but she only got to use it with me for three trips until she passed away in 2007. Anyway I had to move into it w/o insulating it as money and time didn't allow for it.
So I just received the new heater Christmas Eve and completed installing it on Monday. The stats are taken each morning but I compare my trailer to an FG so I watch for ideas. I just happened to have been watching this tread and posted. It has cut down on the moisture considerably. I hope it helped. Once I do get one (I have my eye on one near my place) I probably will remove that furnace and install mine.

Might I suggest also to install the heater on the bottom to keep the heat their longer. I have mine on the floor and it keeps my feet warm while I make my food. It soon rises anyway so why not use it at the feet first. Of course you can always use a fan to circulate the air evenly anyway. Just a suggestion. I really was just going to be lurker as I know my trailer is not FG. But the furnace issue I felt I had something to give. I hope it helped.

[cpaharley2008]

Bill,
It would be simple to move the outlet to the side, in fact I'm installing an outlet on each side. But your switch is what I do not understand, my electric unit has an off/on switch on the unit and a turn type thermostat, no separate switch was installed. Perhaps you can do away with it?

[Bill Robison]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Bill,
It would be simple to move the outlet to the side, in fact I'm installing an outlet on each side. But your switch is what I do not understand, my electric unit has an off/on switch on the unit and a turn type thermostat, no separate switch was installed. Perhaps you can do away with it?

Hi Jim -

We don't really use 120v appliances often - I think the duplex by the micro and one other in the galley area will be more than enough. Also, I would like to eliminate the possibility of 120v cords reaching across the sink area.

The heater switch was installed by the factory as a 'safety' on the original order request (we are officially second owners). It can be eliminated without problems, but it is a nice safety feature - I think I will relocate it above the closet along with the water heater and pump switches.

How about some photos of your mods? How are you coming with your mods?

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Hi Jim -

We don't really use 120v appliances often - I think the duplex by the micro and one other in the galley area will be more than enough. Also, I would like to eliminate the possibility of 120v cords reaching across the sink area.

The heater switch was installed by the factory as a 'safety' on the original order request (we are officially second owners). It can be eliminated without problems, but it is a nice safety feature - I think I will relocate it above the closet along with the water heater and pump switches.

How about some photos of your mods? How are you coming with your mods?

I have a basement full of Camping World, Jensen, Seelevel boxes, waiting for it to go above freezing so I can start. I will have a busy Spring. I have completed most of them......on paper..... and in my mind!!!!!
partial list-
100% LED outside light replacements,3 extra 12 v outlets-1 by tv and 1 underneath for Engel refer
1 extra 120 v outlets-by bed and tv,fix existing 120 v outlets. outlet by door reinstall
new tires/wheels- spring-done,new sears #29 battery- spring,floor polish for outside-spring
new mount tv-done,take cooler for food/drinks,new water heater- completed-done,winterizing bypass-completed-done
led conversion-completed inside-wooden floor cover,led- outside. led install inside-12v line,futon mattress.see level gauges install,solar on new tongue tool box,30 amp detachable conversion,antenna/cable tv hookup. inside antenna install
enlarge storage area exterior access on driver side,install 2 sliding shelves unver bed opening, replace vent cover with clear, new am/fm/cd/weather radio install, outside shower on door side,fix bumper rust. Install Wave III propane heater by door with 5lb tank

[peterh]

Our Scamp 5er came with a furnace. For the first few years we used a cube heater when we had hookups and the furnace for times we didn't. Last year we added a Wave 3 catalytic heater to the mix, and I gotta say it's been a great addition.

The Wave 3 is all but silent (if you listen carefully you can hear the gas coming out), uses no electricity, is odor-free, and, even set on low, can keep our 19' trailer warm when camping at altitude.

When using it you have to crack a window and vent open just a tad to both keep fresh, oxygenated air coming in and to let the combustion byproducts (carbon dioxide and water vapor) out. We crack the window over the Wave 3 and the vent over our bed, and that works very well.

When we get back from a hike and it's cold outside and in, we'll often turn on both the Wave 3 and the furnace to toast up the trailer, and set the furnace to click off at 65F or so, then let the Wave 3 take over. Oftentimes we have to turn it to "low" it gets so warm inside.

Nighttimes we set the Wave 3 on low and the furnace to 58F or so, but the furnace rarely clicks on. (Has to be freezing temperatures outside for it to do that.) We sleep warm and cozy in a quiet trailer with minimal use of our bettery.

There are times, I think, when the Wave 3 would not be our first choice. Humid locations, for one, because the combustion byproducts of the Wave 3 include water vapor. When we camp in the Olympic Rain Forest, we'll probably lump it on battery use and use the furnace so we can avoid having it rain inside as well as out.

If aI had to oick one and not the other, my choice would depend on two things:

First, whether I planned to do a lot of Solar-Powered boondocking. With our all LED lighting and 105 watts of roof-mounted solar panels, our Scamp can go for weeks without hookups and still have juice to run the TV, radio, computers, and other goodies if we don't run the furnace a lot.

I'd also pick the Wave 3 if we planned to do a lot of alpine camping. At 7000-8000 feet it seems to do a better job of heating the trailer than the furnace does.

And I'd pick the Wave 3 if my camping partner had problems sleeping when a furnace roars off and on twice or three times an hour.

Absent these things, I kinda prefer the furnace.

[Bill Robison]

Hi All -

Well, my 8012 arrived safe and sound from Panther RV - - total price including S&H with long vent kit and one side vent adapter ring and black grill - - $388.83. Is it ever well made - very solid - not tinny in any dimension. The 23# unit feels to be 40# with so much packed into such a small package. Before it is installed I plan to take a lot of close-up photos for later reference, seal any potential 'rattle/vibration points' with 500º stove RTV, then let it do a test burn in the garage to eliminate any initial burn smells and check for proper operation.

I also went to Menards yesterday, since they had 11% rebate on everything in the store - got my new 11# tall LP tank ($45) and a LP fuel gauge ($10) for the camper. Since it is cold and snowy in Michigan, it's nice to have a distraction like this to tinker with ;-)

[Russell A]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Hi All -

Well, my 8012 arrived safe and sound from Panther RV - - total price including S&H with long vent kit and one side vent adapter ring and black grill - - $388.83. Is it ever well made - very solid - not tinny in any dimension. The 23# unit feels to be 40# with so much packed into such a small package. Before it is installed I plan to take a lot of close-up photos for later reference, seal any potential 'rattle/vibration points' with 500º stove RTV, then let it do a test burn in the garage to eliminate any initial burn smells and check for proper operation.

I also went to Menards yesterday, since they had 11% rebate on everything in the store - got my new 11# tall LP tank ($45) and a LP fuel gauge ($10) for the camper. Since it is cold and snowy in Michigan, it's nice to have a distraction like this to tinker with ;-)

See if any of this will help.

I just installed mine this two weeks ago. So it should be fresh material.

Use the same color wire for hook ups to keep bettr track.

1. Black to negative.
2. Red to positive.
3. White to Thermostat.
4. Red from Thermostat to tie in with Red Positive at furnace.

Read the names on the wires at the furnace. The instructions didn't really mention that the red wire from the thermostat was to connect with the red wire to the furnace's hot red wire. In other words keep all reds to reds white to white and black to black. Thats why you should use the same colors.

Teardrops & Tiny Travel Trailers :: View topic - Hey Russ How you doing?

[Bill Robison]

Thanks Russ -

Nice of you to share that valuable information! I noticed the literature was a bit skimpy about thermostat connections...

I also enjoyed your photos - are we going to see how finally get it connected to the LP line? I'm still debating some about whether to use copper direct or to put in a quick disconnect and use hose?

[Russell A]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Thanks Russ -

Nice of you to share that valuable information! I noticed the literature was a bit skimpy about thermostat connections...

I also enjoyed your photos - are we going to see how finally get it connected to the LP line? I'm still debating some about whether to use copper direct or to put in a quick disconnect and use hose?

I used copper to the inside at the furnace to just about two feet from the propane tanks. Get a propane place. (not just a propane filling station but one who makes fittings.) to make the flared fittings Cost me $45.00 to make a six foot tube. I even put a shut off at the furnace. Another shut off (just because I had it) at the end where the rubber would connect. I then ran the copper straight threw the floor to the front brace keeping it as high as possible from dragging. (Dragging not a good thing. No!. Think about tall grasses) . The 3/8 rubber hose connect to the copper to the connection to the propane tanks.

[Russell A]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

Thanks Russ -

Nice of you to share that valuable information! I noticed the literature was a bit skimpy about thermostat connections...

I also enjoyed your photos - are we going to see how finally get it connected to the LP line? I'm still debating some about whether to use copper direct or to put in a quick disconnect and use hose?

By the way I got mine from Rich at the same place in Washington. Great guy to deal with.

Also use disconnects at the wire junctions - at the thermostat so if for some reason you need to remove it you won't destroy the wires and it looks good anyway.

[Russell A]

When I was putting mine together it was cold and getting colder. I was at the point of no return when I completed the install minus the wiring. ( I had no blue flame heater as I disconnected it for the hose. I had all the wires installed and didn't know where to put the red wire from the thermostat. I sat there for two hours looking at leaks shut off valves and just about anything. Even changed the tank to a full one. Then at a last desperate act, I read the schematics and saw a black dot at a junction with the red wires. That's when I took the chance and touched the still bare wires at the red connection on the positive red wire leading to the furnace from the battery. The thing went right on and I knew I was good to go. That is one of those things that will stay on my mind forever. Boy was I getting cold. By the way I live in my trailer. I needed that furnace.

[Ron F]

Russell,

How about an update on how your new heater performed this winter.

Ron

[Russell A]

The furnace does real well even in temps at 02 degrees at night. I usually shut the furnace off in temps at 29-up However the 17,000 uses a one 20lb tank at temps in the teens. So it usually cost me $15.75 for a 20 lb which gets used up in three days. The battery is usually charged up while I use the 2000 gen which I have on anyway as I use it for the fridge and back screen on the lap top. but suspect it would go to the safety mark with in two days.

Still when you consider that with the old blue flame heater I was originally using that put gallons of moisture into the side walls that the new furnace is dry air and uses more propane so I think I really happy with the Atwood.

How are you doing with your install. Or are you on hold?

[Ron F]

Originally Posted by Russell A

How are you doing with your install. Or are you on hold?

Everything is on hold up here. We had two days above freezing last week and some of the snow went away, but the EggCamper is still buried. It will have to wait till the snow is gone.

I'm glad to hear that the furnace is working out well. For my use, I doubt that I'll be using it at temperatures in the single digits, so occasional use will probably stretch out the propane consumption.

Ron

[Bill Robison]

About the same here in Michigan - all our knee-deep snow melted last week during a 'spring thaw' - then Sunday and Monday we got socked in with another 12"-14" of fresh snow cover. Temp is 10º F with -4º windchill this am - not a good time to install my new furnace either. I began thinking seriously of getting the EggCamper out of storage while we we able to see the grass last week - but alas, it is Michigan after all.

The heavy snow allows for lots of computer-time travel and research ;-)

[Ron F]

Originally Posted by Bill Robison

About the same here in Michigan - all our knee-deep snow melted last week during a 'spring thaw' - then Sunday and Monday we got socked in with another 12"-14" of fresh snow cover. Temp is 10º F with -4º windchill this am - not a good time to install my new furnace either. I began thinking seriously of getting the EggCamper out of storage while we we able to see the grass last week - but alas, it is Michigan after all.

The heavy snow allows for lots of computer-time travel and research ;-)

I'm worried that the warmer temperatures last week were our normal January thaw, arriving late. I hope that doesn't mean that spring will come just as late.

Snowed in gives me time to think about what I'd like to do/change this year in the egg. One thing that I'd like to refine is the under-bed storage that I cobbled together. Right now, it consists of two pull-out drawers. Each one is set up to hold one large and one small plastic tub. The base is supported on small wheels that I purchased from Rockler. I'm thinking that I'd like to change that to some type of drawer slide attached to the sides, and add a more substantial locking mechanism. (Occasionally when traveling, one (or both) drawers will slip it's mooring and roll toward the front of the trailer. No damage, just annoying.)

Ron

[Bill K]

In my 16' Scamp I was able to put a removable barrier across in front of the tubs under the bed.

Bill K

Originally Posted by Ron F

I'm worried that the warmer temperatures last week were our normal January thaw, arriving late. I hope that doesn't mean that spring will come just as late.

Snowed in gives me time to think about what I'd like to do/change this year in the egg. One thing that I'd like to refine is the under-bed storage that I cobbled together. Right now, it consists of two pull-out drawers. Each one is set up to hold one large and one small plastic tub. The base is supported on small wheels that I purchased from Rockler. I'm thinking that I'd like to change that to some type of drawer slide attached to the sides, and add a more substantial locking mechanism. (Occasionally when traveling, one (or both) drawers will slip it's mooring and roll toward the front of the trailer. No damage, just annoying.)

Ron