Looking for some Door Hinges....

[mcnick]

Hey Everyone,

I have a '81 Scamp and my door is starting to sag, due to the wear of the hinges over the years. I was just wondering if there was any place anyone would know to get them other from Scamp?? I assume its a pretty common problem, as I have seen several with the same issue.

Just wanting to do some research before running out and buying the first one's I find.

Thanks!

Nick

[ERIC B.]

I haven't found another supplier so far. I just got a set from Scamp this week...$26.00 plus $6.00 shipping to Washington. Or if you only need the brass balls and springs, you can buy them separately.

[Brian B-P]

Boler owners, like myself, routinely go to Scamp for hinge parts (I got two rebuild kits). I suspect that they're your only source... but they're cheap for replacement bits and reasonable (in my opinion) for the whole hinge, so I'm okay with that.

[Pete Dumbleton]

The hinge design is such that the brass balls wear out before the hinge parts do, so you might want to investigate just replacing the balls and springs. New balls are perfectly round.

[Brian B-P]

...New balls are perfectly round.

... except for the flat areas around each end of the hole, but I get the point: they're not oval, and if yours are, they're worn. The following image shows my two worn balls, flanking a new one:




I agree that it's the balls that wear first; it looks like mine wore much more than the hinge halves, although I have no new-condition hinge halves for comparison. I replaced only the balls (and springs and bolts) as Pete suggests, although in the Boler case that's a more obvious choice, because Boler and Scamp hinge halves mount differently, so they're not a trivial exchange.

[James Bar.]

A related observation and question: I've also been trying to deal with a sagging Burrow door. I note that most fiber. trailer doors are only supported by the hinges even when closed. Why they are designed this way is a question. This appears to me to put much stress on the hinges and hinge screws - all resulting in door sag. I've been trying to work out, not elegant yet, an arrangement that supports the door at the latch when its closed. The door position shifts slightly depending on temperature and trailer position - so a support must have some tolerance for up and down door movement, prerably dampened by springs. Would appreceiate other observations or solutions along this line.

Thanks, James

[Al Stansell]

When I replaced the hinges on my Boler with new Scamp hinges, I put an aluminum backing plate behind each hinge on the inside of the Boler to strengthen the entire arrangement and reduce flexing. It has worked out well. Alec

[Roger H]

I was just wondering if there was any place anyone would know to get them other from Scamp??

Nick

Uhh... I presume that you could even have them machined from solid brass stock if you can't find another source... but why would you even spend the time and money to look? For the princely sum of $5.00 (plus s&h of course) you can get new replacement balls and springs directly from Scamp (from their price list)

Roger

[Brian B-P]

While the balls could be readily reproduced (and are not worth doing), the actual hinge halves would take much more effort. Despite that, I did read about someone who was doing it - machining them from solid aluminum, I think. Great weekend project for those looking for an excuse to exercise their milling machine... but again, not worthwhile unless you want to try a design change.

[jim munson]

While the balls could be readily reproduced (and are not worth doing), the actual hinge halves would take much more effort. Despite that, I did read about someone who was doing it - machining them from solid aluminum, I think. Great weekend project for those looking for an excuse to exercise their milling machine... but again, not worthwhile unless you want to try a design change.

The hinge holes were worn by the ss pin/bolts in my Scamp. I was able to drill them out and found a ss tube that fit the new holes in all 4 hinge places. Tight fit in the aluminium and good slip in the the new bushing.

[Brian B-P]

The hinge holes were worn by the ss pin/bolts in my Scamp. I was able to drill them out and found a ss tube that fit the new holes in all 4 hinge places. Tight fit in the aluminium and good slip in the the new bushing.

If we are talking about the holes through which the bolts are installed, and not the hemispherical sockets containing the balls, they are supposed to be larger than the bolts.

As I understand this design, the bolts are not hinge pins, and should not fit snugly. All of the weight is supported through the balls, the door is located by the balls (which I suppose we should really call "spherical bushings"), and the bolts & springs just keep the whole mess from bouncing apart on bumps. The free play between the bolt and hinge sockets allows body flex to change the hinge angles without causing binding; the springs keep tension on the bolt to keep the bushing ball in contact with both hinge halves without the nut being tightened directly against any hinge part and restricting this intentional flexibility.

If you take the bolts (and springs) entirely out of these hinges, the door is still fully supported and works normally; that's how the door is removed - pull both bolts, then just lift off. I wouldn't suggest towing without the bolts...

Knowing that the bolt clearance is normal might save someone an unnecessary hinge replacement, when all they need is the bushing balls.

[Gina D.]

Gentlemen,

Are Scamp hinges unique in design or are they similar in concept and form to other standard hinges?

I have not paid close attention to Scamp ones.

[Brian B-P]

Are Scamp hinges unique in design or are they similar in concept and form to other standard hinges?

The Boler and Scamp hinges are apparently identical, other than the mounting flange details. Other than therse two, I have never seen a closely similar design... which doesn't mean there isn't one, of course.

[Benny K]

Howdy Gina, apparently the design of the Scamp and Boler hinges allows the door to open and close by allowing the hinge to change the axis of the hinge pin as it swings.....it seems that this is done because of the body shape of the trailers....if the manufacturers had incorporated flat verticle mounting pads for the hinges onto the trailer body, then a standard butt type hinge could be used as the door would swing on that type of hinge like a domestic house door ......when the door of the Boler and Scamp swings, you can see the hinge pin change it`s angle from the verticle plumb position....hope I`ve described this so it makes some sense, LOL .. ..Benny

[ERIC B.]

The Boler and Scamp hinges are apparently identical, other than the mounting flange details. Other than therse two, I have never seen a closely similar design... which doesn't mean there isn't one, of course.

My Perris Pacer has the same hinge issue......same design using identical bushings, springs, bolts, but the mounting flange on the trailer side has only two mounting holes versus three on the Scamp hinges. Maybe mine are the same as Boler? I've never looked that close at others.

[Gina D.]

I redid the hinge mounting on my 13 foot Burro. I had to remove the whole hinge from the body and remove the door (With the hinges still attached, as there was no issue with the door mounts)

Can you rebuild the hinges on the door, or do they have to be removed completely from the trailer?

[Brian B-P]

My Perris Pacer has the same hinge issue......same design using identical bushings, springs, bolts, but the mounting flange on the trailer side has only two mounting holes versus three on the Scamp hinges. Maybe mine are the same as Boler?...

That seems likely, as that difference in number of bolts - and apparently spacing of the holes - is the only Boler/Scamp difference that I know of. It seems that the Scamp hinge revision is further down the evolutionary tree than the Perris cloning of the Boler...

[Brian B-P]

...apparently the design of the Scamp and Boler hinges allows the door to open and close by allowing the hinge to change the axis of the hinge pin as it swings.....it seems that this is done because of the body shape of the trailers....if the manufacturers had incorporated flat verticle mounting pads for the hinges onto the trailer body, then a standard butt type hinge could be used as the door would swing on that type of hinge like a domestic house door ......when the door of the Boler and Scamp swings, you can see the hinge pin change it`s angle from the verticle plumb position....

I just ran out to the driveway and checked - there is no [b]angle change in my Boler's hinges with door motion. The ball design would allow this, and it may indeed be a reason for the design choice, but the hinge halves are angled to match the body so there's no need for the allowance unless the body shape is distorted so the hinges are not properly aligned. Locating the hinges incorrectly would also require this, and there's nothing moulded into the body or door to indicate specifically where the hinges should be, so I'll be there are Bolers out there that need the balls to work.

A standard domestic door hinge still wouldn't work, because clearance is needed for the curve of the body. This has nothing to do with balls versus straight pins, but all hinges for curved doors have some kind of [b]offset; the Boler/Scamp/Pacer hinges are offset outboard (perpendicular to the trailer wall), as are (for instance) GMC motorhomes. Trillium, Escape, and U-Haul hinge pins are offset forward (along the trailer wall). I think the forward offset is a much better idea, although purely forward offset does not allow 180 degree door movement.

This (fuzzy) photo, looking downward past my Boler's hinges, shows how the pivot points of the hinges stand well out from the body. The angles of the hinges mounting pads are not apparent from this view, but are such that they could have straight pins and work fine, as long as the pins were aligned.



(Note that in this photo the hinges are also twisted on the body, which causes door alignment problems and is the reason the photo was taken; this is caused by the offset and unrelated to the ball design)

[Brian B-P]

...Can you rebuild the hinges on the door, or do they have to be removed completely from the trailer?

The bolts which run through the balls, and the springs on them, can be changed without even opening the door. Since these bolts are not hinge pins (that's the balls' job), the door is still fully supported.

To change a ball, the bolt through it is removed, and the door lifted enough to get the ball out. You might be able to do this to only one hinge at a time, not removing the door, because the spring on the other hinge's bolt would allow a little movement. I wouldn't bother trying this.

The easy way to change balls (and the bolts and springs with them) is to remove both bolts, lift the door off, place the new ball(s) on the body-side hinges, and replace the door. There is no need to remove either side (door or body) of either hinge (top or bottom) unless the aluminum hinge halves themselves are to be replaced.

One advantage of lifting the door off is that's when you find it is way too heavy, and thus realize it is full of water. Well, that's how it worked for me and a few other people, anyway...

The hinge halves are bolted through the door and body. I have not replaced any of the hinge halves, and have not even removed any of the (rusty) bolts yet.

[Gina D.]

I can see why one would not want to remove the door if they didn't have to.

I was wondering why one would rebuild an assemby when it seems so cheap to just replace the whole thing and have a nice looking new hinge instead of wrestling with rusty bolts etc.