Loose Rivits on 2014 Scamp - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:45 PM   #21
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Hmmmm. My observation on our former 13' Scamp is that the Acorn nuts were twisted onto the rivet AFTER the rivet was popped, to create a bit of "Dress" on the inside. This was evidenced by the appearance that some of the rivets had been trimmed off to let the acorn fit against the walls.


A solution to pulled out rivets, that works for moi, is to use the standard aluminum back-up washers on the inside so that the rivet bulb is pulled down against to washer and not the softer fiberglass. That compresses the surfaces between the rivet head and the washer face. And YES, it's takes two to do this and it is critical to be putting some degree of pressure on the washer while it is being popped. I use a 1/4" drive deep well socket and a driver handle to hold the washers in tight.



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Old 04-29-2015, 02:46 PM   #22
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Jim,
I don't know if you have replaced rivets before, so I'm sending you this link to a compilation of instructional rivet videos:
Pop Rivets and Hand Rivet Gun Basics | Handywomans Companion Online Magazine - Be handy—be ingenious—be old school cool.

Let us know your results, and wishing you the best.
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Old 04-29-2015, 04:19 PM   #23
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On my 1986 scamp the rivets are set inside the arcorn nut. When I replaced them all i found an issue with rivet length. if the rivet was too long the rivet set up in the nut threads but isn't able to draw up the compressed length. The rivet will pop and hold the acorn nut but didn't draw up tight. You need to have the rivet tip go all the way into the nut and be really close to the sandwich you are trying to tighten up. Too much rivet length the nut is standing too far out and pops the rivet when it swells inside the nut. This is a critical dimension for drawing up tight. I had to remove the shank and trim many rivets to the right length to get a proper set.

In a new application all the new materials haven't been compressed anymore so if you don't have proper rivet set and materials start compressing with age I could see rivets being loose and getting looser with age.

If you use an aluminum pop rivet with a steel pull pin you may have enough strength to actually distort the shank enough when setting the rivet to actually use a miss matched rivet.
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Old 04-29-2015, 05:03 PM   #24
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Hmmmmm... I just don't think that popping the rivet with the acorn nut in place, is anything close to the original design intent, much less a way to get a good tight joining.
IMHO: If Scamp is now using that technique to save a few pennies then shame on them.


As I mentioned in Post #21, use the correct size backing washers and screw the acorn nuts on afterwards as they were are only supposed to be cosmetic in the 1st place.


An electric screw gun, set on it's lowest torque setting, and a shallow socket will let you install about 100 Acorn caps in an hour.
Free tip; pinch the barrel of the exposed rivet end so that the acorn threads on better



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Old 04-29-2015, 06:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bob Miller View Post
Hmmmmm... I just don't think that popping the rivet with the acorn nut in place, is anything close to the original design intent, much less a way to get a good tight joining.
IMHO: If Scamp is now using that technique to save a few pennies then shame on them.

Actually Bob I don't know anyone with a Scamp that has not used that technic when replacing rivets. Personally can't see how the acorn nut would actually stay in place if it was fitted onto a rivet after it was shoot in place. How do you think this saves Scamp money? - it takes something that would be a one person job doing it your way and turns it into a two person job doing it the way that most of us do it and I suspect the factory actually does as well.

The key to the rivets is as has been suggested is getting the length correct - one size does not fit all on the through hull applications on the Scamp. I have found that sometimes I need to take the rivet apart and adjust its length by cutting it back before shooting it in order to get a nice solid fit even though I have rivets in a number of different lengths but none of them are the correct length needed right out of the box for some applications.
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Old 04-29-2015, 06:36 PM   #26
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[QUOTE=Darral T.;518979


The acorn nuts- as least on MY Scamp- is NOT aluminum...but steel. Believe me, I machined one and it's definitely not aluminum.


[/QUOTE]

Cool LOL and who says Scamp never updates anything they do/use!
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:35 PM   #27
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I recently had a rivet replaced at LHC. It took 2 (two) people to accomplish the task .One on the outside to insert the rivet and operate the rivet gun . The other on the inside putting the acorn nut on the rivet and pushing on the acorn nut to compress the trailer lining. The same method that Scamp told me to follow.
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Old 04-30-2015, 04:35 AM   #28
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Sharon,
On that rear window you'll have to get the frame completely removed and get it squeaky clean. Then bed the frame with the butyl tape and re-fasten. Also check the drain scuppers in the window sill, as they will overflow on the inside of the trailer if clogged. The scupper cleaning usually comes first, as it's easier to do than re bedding the frame, and is often the culprit.
Russ
We have the window out, the butyl tape I ordered (couldn't find it locally) came in the other day, and I have a product like "Goof Off" to get everything cleaned well. Tarp over the trailer (again...) I'm hoping for decent weather Saturday to try to get the window back in; sure wish we had more time to work on things!
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:17 AM   #29
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The acorn nuts spin onto the installed pop-rivet end just fine. I use a electric nut drive set at minimum torque and on they go.....


IMHO: I think that Scamps method is compromising the long term security of the rivets by requiring that they pull the joint together AND retain the acorn nut at the same time.


I will continue to replace any pop-rivets in fiberglass using backing washers and then threading the acorn nuts on after the fact.


Let's see.... Does anyone ever hear of pop-rivets coming loose/leaking in a Scamp? Hoodathunkit?



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Old 04-30-2015, 08:51 PM   #30
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I agree with Bob that the backing washer does the holding on the inside. Relying on the sketchy cosmetic acorn nuts to pull the panels together is too inconsistent due to variations in the materials.
Whether you elect to install the acorn nuts during the pull or afterward makes no difference in strength. If using Bob's method I would be careful not to let the rivet spin when installing the nut, as it could loosen the hold of the rivet.
If using the pre installation of the nut you need to dial in the perfect length of the rivet to achieve a properly set nut.
In my trailer I used the pre installation method and some of the nuts are not fully seated against the inner cabinet flanges. It is only cosmetic, as I used the back up washers to do the holding. We rigged up a pushing setup where my son could apply pressure on the cabinet flange while also pushing in on the acorn nut and back up washer stack.
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