Musing from a new Scamp owner

[gordon2]

Well, back on topic... I note the the air distribution box has two screw holes by each side vent (eight total) and the installation directions call for all eight to be screwed into the roof (for typical install). Also the two sheet metal screws as shown in the photo.

Scamp only used the sheet metal screws and two wood screws at the aft end of the box. This appears to be to have been plenty to hold the air dist box in place so I am not worried about that. The length and backing material is another matter of course.

I do wonder however if others with a roof AC on a Scamp have all eight, or if they have ever removed the air distribution box, were the screws an inch in length. I would not remove them just to check as this could cause a leak.

If anyone wants to check for me, you should be able to see the head of the wood screws by fully opening the side vents and looking straight up. You would almost have to have the two in the aft end, but do you have the ones by the side vents also?

[redbarron55]

I looked at the picture of the top of the door and saw light.
The shield "awning" has to be solidly sealed or water will run under and into the door gap.
Ask how I know!
I thought I had sealed mine, but I was wrong and spent a while looking at the side door seals.
I put a gasket on the shell side so any water past the edge of the door would be stopped and run down the outside of it.
Still if water is puddling around the AC it will leak unless it is well sealed and I doubt it can be done over time.
If it were mine and if I were rebuilding it knot new) I would put a reinforcing frame under it with the roof curve built in to shed the water.
In any event the roof curve should be maintained and my thought is that if it is not the roof does not have sufficient stiffness and strength for the job.

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[floyd]

Originally Posted by CPW

I have no motive other than to share my bad experience with others so that maybe they won't make the same mistake or will understand they are not the only one frustrated with shoddy quality. Hence, no financial gain. I am not earning income by fixing or refurbishing them.
I think I can recognize sarcasm, as well as a whole lot of other things.
Oh, and be careful where you roll. You never know what you might roll in.


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Having read this, your latest post, it is a bit late to be careful "what I might roll in".
I have never charged to fix anyone's trailer of any make.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

Having read this, your latest post, it is a bit late to be careful "what I might roll in".
I have never charged to fix anyone's trailer of any make.

Then I guess it all goes back to motive. I've clearly and honestly stated mine. You have not, and additionally you have avoided commenting on what defines success and what you would do if you were in charge in Backus. But rather than trying to convert me into being an advocate for Scamp (which, based on my experience with the company and its product is never going to happen), might I suggest that you redirect your efforts toward helping Gordon solve his leak problem.


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[floyd]

Originally Posted by CPW

Then I guess it all goes back to motive. I've clearly and honestly stated mine. You have not, and additionally you have avoided commenting on what defines success and what you would do if you were in charge in Backus. But rather than trying to convert me into being an advocate for Scamp (which, based on my experience with the company and its product is never going to happen), might I suggest that you redirect your efforts toward helping Gordon solve his leak problem.


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My motive has always been clear as it relates to fiberglass RVs, despite your insinuations to the contrary....to promote the enjoyment of the owners of all makes and to help where I can. I have no untoward influence with any manufacturer.

I am not so foolish as to make an attempt at converting you.

You have likely spent more time communicating with Scamp than I have over the last few years and you have the experience and passion to convince Scamp of a righteous cause, which you apparently see in Gordon. So perhaps you could redirect your efforts to coming to his aide.
I on the other hand see Gordon as a big boy with the skills and good sense to solve his own problems.
I am as always glad to help and have made suggestions toward solutions which can be taken or left on the table.

Success as it applies to Scamp can easily be defined. It is having the greatest longevity at producing a product of unsurpassed value and producing satisfied customers with realistic expectations and big smiles on their faces for over forty five years.
Now with that comes the possibility of mistakes and even some disagreements along with the occasional disgruntled customer. Some of those can be placated, some satisfied and some must remain disgruntled. I still think the "OLD MAN" gave good advice.

There is no company on earth or elsewhere AFAIK, which would not experience some change with you or me at the helm.
I am perhaps not as confident as you that it would all be improvement, but I have made suggestions, some of which have even been adopted.

[Mr Lynn]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I would guess that the curve is no issue but I would love to see it compared to other installs that have stood the test of time (a few years at least).

No, not going back to Backus for this. Over 2,600 miles round trip, over $530 in gas alone (not counting camping fees, tolls, etc. Not going to happen. Local shop is looking more like it but, as a rule, RV places don't know fiberglass repair and fiberglass people don't know A/C removal and install.

FWIW, if Scamp asked me, I'd say: Assume the guy who installed the fixtures had a bad weekend, and Gordon got a lemon. Send out a rep with a new, equivalent unit, and bring back his. Fixed up properly you can sell it for a small discount and what you lose you'll have made up in good will.

But then, they won't ask me.

/Mr Lynn

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by floyd

My motive has always been clear as it relates to fiberglass RVs, despite your insinuations to the contrary....to promote the enjoyment of the owners of all makes and to help where I can. I have no untoward influence with any manufacturer.

I will say one last thing and then I will say no more. If you wish, you get the last word; it just isn't productive or desirable to continue what seemingly has become "a pissing contest."
Since you bring up insinuations, I resent your insinuation that I am a disgruntled Scamp customer. I am a discerning customer; I was not happy with the quality of construction nor with the multiple lies high ranking employees of Scamp told me. Based on the number of posts I see in this forum I am not alone. And because of my experience with Scamp, I exercise my right to express my OPINIONS about the company and its product. That DOES NOT mean I am disgruntled. I've owned several Harleys over the years. Their quality at times was questionable. While I may have commented on that in the time period I spent three hours working on them for every hour I spent riding them, it did not mean I was disgruntled. Walmart is a prime example that there will always be a market for low end (less expensive) products. In the FG trailer market, Scamp fills that niche nicely. As I noted in an earlier post, many people sell their Scamps and do what they consider "moving up" to another brand. Few go the other way (I personally do not know of any). Some people will buy a Porsche, others a VW. These vehicles are not the same, and they are not of equal quality. But the fact that there are more VWs than Porsches on the road does not mean VW is better, of higher quality, a greater value, or more successful. I've owned two VWs in my lifetime. They served me well. But every time I hear someone crab about VWs or say they wouldn't own another, I don't feel threatened to the point that I feel compelled to defend VW, and I surely wouldn't defend the company regarding its latest debacle. If you cannot understand the difference between being discerning and disgruntled, I feel sorry for you.
As to redirecting my efforts to help Gordon, you are correct, he is a big boy. But it seems to me he is clearly asking for assistance since he posted photos and recounted his attempted corrective actions.
I sold my Scamp because I did not want to be working on it ad infinitum, and there always seemed to be something wrong. It became an aggravation rather than an enjoyment. Please note that I am not the one who stated one of my motivations was "to help where I can," although I would certainly try to do so if asked AND if I had the expertise. I would mention that there are people on this forum who consider you to have much expertise when it comes to fixing trailer problems. So I would again suggest you are more likely to suggest appropriate solutions to Gordon than I am.



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[gordon2]

Originally Posted by CPW

I will say one last thing and then I will say no more. If you wish, you get the last word; it just isn't productive or desirable to continue what seemingly has become "a pissing contest."....

[Donna D.]

I want the last word! I own both a classic Scamp and an Escape. Talk about the best of both worlds.

The Escape is a much, much better build and I had it built for ME. About as custom as you can get from a manufacturer in the all molded towable world.

HOWEVER, I can HONESTLY say, I'll never, ever have MORE fun in my Escape than I ever did in my Scamp. It's not about the brand or size or anything other than making memories. I made a TON using the Scamp and I expect to make a TON of new ones using Ten Forward.

HAD the Scamp been the layout I feel I need for long(er) term camping, I would never had made the ETI purchase. But the Scamp isn't the right layout (for me). So I spent $$$ to get it!

Love the one you're with!

[alan H]

Well this certainly has been entertaining


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[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by alan H

Well this certainly has been entertaining

TRUTH!

[floyd]

Originally Posted by CPW

I will say one last thing and then I will say no more. If you wish, you get the last word; it just isn't productive or desirable to continue what seemingly has become "a pissing contest."
Since you bring up insinuations, I resent your insinuation that I am a disgruntled Scamp customer.


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When you asked me to explain how success could be defined, I answered. partially by listing at least four different types of customers...
1] customers who are satisfied
2] customers with legitimate complaints left unsatisfied
3] customers who disagree over the nature or outcome of complaints.
4] customers who are simply disgruntled.
This was anecdotal as part of an explanation of a successfully run business, and not aimed at any particular customer.

While it is clear that you were not satisfied with Scamp's reaction to your complaints, or even placated, there was no implication involved.

You were clearly left with seeing yourself in my narrative as at least one of three of the customers described above. Why would you not choose #2 or even #3 (or both) rather than #4?
I am sorry that you chose to infer #4
I guess I might perhaps (if pressed) have seen you as #2.



BTW...
You are probably right about the "pissing contest" thing...
When compared to the "mainstream", on a scale of one to ten, urinate!
I lie prostate in awe before you!
.

[Paul O.]

Every house I have lived in required a whole lot of fixes, repairs, improvements and just simply projects. Many are no more than a few minutes of work. Usually, after about a dozen, I lose count and just go on. My Scamp is no different. Considering that I have put 40k miles on it in three years, and the roads that we took it on (e.g. Chaco Canyon, Labrador and Quebec), I think it has done OK. I could definitely count more than a dozen of minor or major fixes. Sorry to see so many problems on Gordon's Scamp, but I hope the positive outweighs the negative in the end.

[Mr Lynn]

Originally Posted by Paul O.

Every house I have lived in required a whole lot of fixes, repairs, improvements and just simply projects. Many are no more than a few minutes of work. Usually, after about a dozen, I lose count and just go on. My Scamp is no different. Considering that I have put 40k miles on it in three years, and the roads that we took it on (e.g. Chaco Canyon, Labrador and Quebec), I think it has done OK. I could definitely count more than a dozen of minor or major fixes. Sorry to see so many problems on Gordon's Scamp, but I hope the positive outweighs the negative in the end.

If you bought your '04 Scamp three years ago, then it was already nine years old. Gordon's situation is different: he bought his Scamp new, and his warranty is just running out. He's having problems that should not be occurring on a new trailer.

/Mr Lynn

[Darral T.]

Gordon, I hope you get in touch with the right person at Scamp before your warranty runs out. I've read most of this entire thread and have shook my head at your problems. I came to the conclusion as far as Scamp is concerned, they WOULD put out some refund to me or have to block me on their phone- their choice.

Personal Scamp experiences: (Some pro some con)
I bought my Standard Scamp 13' (w/bath/shower...pretty much fully loaded except for furnace) in 2010. I was antsy about the distance. Basically, I got to know Dave - their production manager and the MOST informative and helpful employee of SCAMP!! One clear distinct message I gave him over the phone one day and I'll never forget it. I said, "Dave, this is for what it's worth, but I'm driving a LONG way to Backus to pick up my Scamp. I dont want sloppy silicone work or any other production problems with my Scamp." He said he would see to it.
The silicone seam around the bellyband was as perfect as I'd seen. As far as "problems". I recall 1 small leak under the sink after hooking up water- it was a screw in the bottom of the "trap". Half of a turn it was done. The DOOR SEAL??? I called Kent Eveland while on the road. He sent me the better "D" seal- and they have since changed that to a "lip" seal which I hear works very well. I squeezed probably a gallon of water out of the edge of my door's "ratfur" on the second night after pulling in rain from Wisconsin Dells to Illinois. But that is fixed. The rest of the Scamp, I basically had no issues with.
I've since done ALOT of mods- including the cheesy door handle to which they OUGHT to change to a standard RV lock...but that's just my opinion but the wife and I DO love ours...we can shut the door now without having to activate that handle! The curtains they put in the Scamp are a JOKE- a see-through JOKE! We've lined ours. They put a dome light between the kitchen and rear cabinet...useless and why I'll never know- I rotated it for use...they've since changed that. They were miscalling the size of the grey water tank and after me riding Kent for several months, he finally updated the website to a lower volume! (I confirmed this with the tank manufacturer (ICON)). Most of what I've described is Scamp- not actually the trailer. I DO NOT like the "rivets" but there's plenty of gripes from me on other threads about it.

A year or so after I bought my Scamp, Dennis- the host of PINEY Fall meet had bought a brand new 16 Scamp with the front bunks. He and I talked and I FINALLY went up to look at his Scamp as he was IRATE about it. The roof was "sagging". LITERALLY. I went in and pushed up on the roof....it was DIFFICULT to move. So no "weak" roof. He had yet another problem. When he hooked up the water, it FLOODED his kitchen cabinetry underneath. They had completely left the water lines disconnected. Before goin, I had called Scamp and Dave sent me the stuff I thought would fix it. Well, I dont have the equipment to "heat shrink" those fittings. We went to Home Depot and bought "Sharkbites" to finish it. This I didnt ask for but Scamp sent me a $200 check for helping Dennis. So what came of his trailer- which had a MAJOR defect???? Unbelievable- Scamp built him a new one and Dave personally pulled it to Clarksville, TN. for him. Probably the MOST "perfect" Scamp ever built.

I've heard Kent Eveland is now passing the torch to his son Micah. If I read correctly, Scamp is NOW entering their 3rd generation and this is to be the most dangerous time for a small business from my experiences and my opinion. From what I've been reading the past couple of years, I hope this is not the case, but there seems to be more and more discontentment with the quality of Scamp.

I'd concluded a long time ago, if I was purchasing a new FG camper today, it would be Escape- hands down! While I only have a 4 cyl (one of the reasons for my choice of Scamp), I'd gladly get a larger vehicle to pull it.

EVERY manufacturer has their problems. But dont let anyone EVER get by on here portraying Scamp to be perfect as they're certainly not!

Gordon, finally, I would contact Scamp- DAVE (sorry dont remember his last name but he's "Production Supervisor") and see what happens. Mention my name, I dont care.

I also appreciate Lynn and Carl's point of view. Some on here just cannot STAND it when the "truth" is brought out about Scamps. But, it's not life or death- just another aggravation in life- but, an expensive one!

Good luck and PM me if I can be of help Gordon. Dont forget the photos I posted of my platform to get on top of the Scamp-- there's another idea I have for removing the A/C associated with that design.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

Gordon, I hope you get in touch with the right person at Scamp before your warranty runs out....

Kent has always been good about communicating with me, but you might be right that I might need to deal with someone else if he is winding down his career. Email went out to Kent just an hour ago so we will see.

You make a number of good observations also and I tend to agree with them for the most part.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by gordon2

...
So I pulled the [VanAir] vent out completely. ... I also found a few extra screw holes, and it appears they they started to install the vent in the wrong orientation (with the drain hole not at the lowest point). I filled these screw holes even though the fresh butyl should have sealed them up anyway. ...

I need to correct myself. I am now almost certain that these three holes are actually from the screws holding up the trim ring inside the camper. The screws went up through the trim plate and up into to the fiberglass roof from the interior of the camper. This should not have been a problem since they should have been in the area where butyl was keeping things sealed up. However, the holes are further from the center (and closer to the edge of the butyl and silicone sealant) than the mounting holes so who knows if this is a cause of my leak(s) or not.

To be safe, I am not re-installing the trim ring in the same way. I will either find a better way to use the trim ring, or find an alternative way to secure the wiring and make it look pretty. This is even more reason to not get the vent if you don't plan to use your shower or bathroom much.

Screws into the fiberglass ceiling were also used for the A/C air distribution box. I expect I will have more to say about that at a later date.

[Darral T.]

I dunno why Scamp quit putting the small crankout window up front in the bathroom. I have it and would NOT trade it for ANY vent. It provides- not only ventilation- but lets in outside lighting as well. I dont have trouble with it leaking and I dont mind putting the little "rock shield" in place when I get ready to pull.

In my opinion, that was a serious "downgrade" on Scamp's part!

[Jon in AZ]

As Donna often says, "You can't miss what you've never had." Casita owners aren't complaining about their vents. That also tells me it's possible to do the vents right even on a curved surface. Hopefully with a bit of pressure and feedback from customers like you, Gordon, Scamp will get it right. Eventually. Meantime, though, I sure understand your frustration.

Scamp says the change was motivated by complaints about leaks. I've no doubt cost-savings played into the decision. So Darrell, enjoy what you've got!

I'm not thrilled about the new screen door either, but Escape owners seem fine with it on the whole, so I'm sure Scamp owners will get used to it, too. Meantime, I'll enjoy the one I've got!

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

...
I'm not thrilled about the new screen door either, but Escape owners seem fine with it on the whole, so I'm sure Scamp owners will get used to it, too. Meantime, I'll enjoy the one I've got!

Oh I like the Plisse screen door! It's so easy to open and close. I am constantly going through the door while working on things here at the house and its effortless to open it and close it right back up. It's resilient and the only thing I have done to maintain it is to vacuum the track and apply a little silicone spray a few times.