New Electric Brakes/hubs on '76 Trillium 1300

[georgewa]

You are quite right for pointing this variation out! Thank you. It will take 2 more pieces of info with pictures to start with to complete the planning.

Walter

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by georgewa

... a flange that the original wheel hub mounts to, would anyone happen to know any details about the original mounting flange for the hubs?

To add electric brakes to the flange as is, it would need to be 4 hole with each hole 7/16" in dia and the holes spaced 2 7/8" apart.

This question would also be answered if anyone had successfully added 7" electric brakes to the original (? 4 hole) hub mounting flange without having to modify it for the electric brake's 4 screw back mounting plate...

I think you already understand this, but the hub doesn't mount to the brake flange at all - the hub rides on the outer parts of the bearings, the inner parts of the bearings ride on the spindle, and that flange only holds the brake backing plate.

Since the brake drum and hub are a single piece of iron in the typical trailer hub & brake design, the bolts in the hub/drum must match the wheels, but those 4 (or 5) bolts have no relationship to the (typically) 4 bolts that hold the backing plate to the mounting flange.

Good drawings of typical hub and brake hardware are provided in Dexter Axle's literature.

[georgewa]

You are correct in saying that in a situation where you are removing or installing trailer electric brakes, the 4 bolt electric brake back plate mounts to the 4 hole flange, not the hub. The hub has bolts in the front to mount the wheel. Thank you for clarifying this.

I am still game to hear from anyone who has a '76 Trillium 1300 with a mounting flange on the base of the axle spindle and has successfully installed 7" electric brakes on that spindle flange.

Thank you.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by Spanke

Since yours is a 1976, your axle is probably shot also. If you can "spring" for it, you may want to consider replacing it with brakes installed instead of adding new brakes to a worn out axle. Just a suggestion.

Good luck with your project.

Spanke

I have read that the typical life of one of these axles is 20 years. If so, Spanke's suggestion may be the best advice you've received. Raz

[georgewa]

You are both probably right about replacing the axle with a new one and electric brakes. Expenses could be reduced if I were to do everything except install the axle. Some additional pictures of the Trillium will hopefully arrive this week and tell me if a brake flange is present at the base of the spindle.

The angle of the axle arm will at least give me some hint of the axle condition in addition to its known age. If I do go with the new axle and brakes, I'm leaning towards an Al-ko or Flexiride because both have replaceable spindles .

Thank you again.

Walter

[Francesca Knowles]

I don't agree with the automaticity of the worn out axle. My '78 4500 still has the original axle, and in addition to whatever miles were on it when I bought it seven years ago, I've put over 40,000 miles more on it. I think that just as with any vehicle, much depends on how much it's been abused...


Here's a method described by another member here for performing a simple assessment of axle condition. It's from this long discussion, which is worth a read for anyone interested in the subject.


Post #57

Originally Posted by Joe in MN

Well, this is what I'm thinking, but I could easily be wrong - if the rubber is still springy, the weight of the trailer would be compressing the suspension somewhat all the time while sitting, and when the trailer was jacked up, the tires would stay on the ground for a bit until that "static compression" was taken out by jacking.

Think of it in reverse - if the trailer was suspended in the air and you gently set it down, the tires should rise up into the wheel wells a bit as the suspension compresses. This isn't happening in my case when I reverse the process, tires come off the ground IMMEDIATELY. There may in fact be some spring left between the resting position and the going-over-a-bump position (which is where you really want it), but I think my scenario means not a lot of springiness left anywhere.

I jack at the frame just ahead of the axle, which I believe is where Scamp recommends jacking. ($30 bottle jack from Northern Tool plus a Sears jack stand and chocks for safety - works really well for me so far.) I doubt that jacking up both wheels would tell you anything that one at a time wouldn't tell you, and it might stress the frame more - from what I've read, you have to watch how you jack Scamps up, as you can put stress in places where the frame isn't happy about it. On the frame, right next to the axle, preferably in front of it, and one side at a time is the best way, I think.

Francesca

[georgewa]

Thank you for the opinion that axle age alone does not automaticly mean you need a new axle. A number of tests have been recommended in the threads including looking at the tire wear pattern to help determine if you really need to replace the axle. If I can get by for the time being with just adding electric brakes that will be fine with me.

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by georgewa

Thank you for the opinion that axle age alone does not automaticly mean you need a new axle. A number of tests have been recommended in the threads including looking at the tire wear pattern to help determine if you really need to replace the axle. If I can get by for the time being with just adding electric brakes that will be fine with me.

My UHaul is a 1985 and still has good ride height and plenty of suspension travel, so age is not the single determinant of axle condition.

Oh darn, I think I just agreed with Francesca.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by georgewa

If I do go with the new axle and brakes, I'm leaning towards an Al-ko or Flexiride because both have replaceable spindles .

Although Flexiride axles with adjustable arms (which is not all of them) have replaceable spindles (by replacing the entire arm with spindle), North American Al-Ko axles do not, as far as I know.

I don't see spindle replacement as important anyway. It is the rubber, not the spindle, which degrades with time. Rebuildable Flexirides do have replaceable rubber cartridges, as well.

[Francesca Knowles]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't spindle replacement sometimes at least partly cure alignment difficulties that may arise down the road?

I have thought, perhaps wrongly, that this is one of the advantages of the Flexiride.

We all know that alignment on a torsion axle must be correct when installed since most allow no further adjustment. But I thought that on a Flexiride, late-arising alignment problems related to the spindle can be corrected by replacement of that component, without necessitating purchase of a whole new axle as is the case with Dexters.

Francesca

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't spindle replacement sometimes at least partly cure alignment difficulties that may arise down the road?

Francesca

If you smoke your wheel bearings bad enough, it ruins the spindle, too.

[Brian B-P]

Yes, if you completely destroy the bearings, you may damage the spindle and need to replace it. If you even minimally maintain the bearings, you'll never need a spindle replacement for this reason. I've never needed one on any vehicle.

The spindle will only affect alignment if it is bent, such as by massive overloading. If you can do that without damaging the rest of the axle assembly, then I suppose a replacement spindle (and arm) would be useful.

[Spanke]

The good thing about the Flexiride axle is that you can adjust the axle arm to fit your individual needs. If you desire more ground clearance you can move the spindle on the axle shaft and increase the down angle.

Also, you can vary the angle on the left and right side separately to make up the difference should your trailer lean to one side.

With the Dexter you are stuck with whatever you order from the factory and can't make adjustments to the angle.

Don't know about AL-KO, but, when I replaced my axle the Flexiride cost more than the same capacity Dexter.

Of course, all of this is a mute point until you determine if you need an axle or not.

Spanke

[Pam Garlow]

...and don't be disheartened, Walter, when you get the camper if you take a look at it and find something totally different than you've planned for. These old eggs are full of surprises. That's what makes them so darn much fun too!! It sounds like you will be ready and waiting to do whatever you need to get your camper road worthy.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Spanke

Don't know about AL-KO, but, when I replaced my axle the Flexiride cost more than the same capacity Dexter.

A local supplier here in Alberta ended up selling Dexter, Al-Ko, and Flexiride... in that order of increasing price., and (according to their technical rep) ride quality.

[Wanderer]

There are no wars for me! I simply went to Princess and bought the smallest/lightest load spec electric kit they had. I came home with the 3500 lb 10" kit and matching 10" drums to replace the 10" hydraulics presently fitted. Since the bearings have the same number as the ones I replaced last summer, there should be no problem with axle size. My Q's are simple. How high/how did you jack up the trailer to get at things, and especially to do the wiring from the brake units to the installed connection inside the trailer fuse box?

[David Tilston]

The brakes, running lights, and tail lights are all powered from the tow vehicle. They should not be fused in the trailer. Just wire them right back to the appropriate pin on the trailer plug.

[Wanderer]

Well, I have a box with some fuses in it, under the settee, and all the trailer lights are wired into it, and from there back to the multi wired cable that goes back to the TV. There are some fuses in that box, a number of them, but only two or three are being used, for interior lighting and 12V outlets.There is a bus "wire" (brass strip) there that all the negatives attach to, including the ground from the TV. I guess I will make my ground connex for the brakes in there also. My battery is inside the trailer, next to the box, and its wiring goes into it also, of course. Guess I will have to run my break-away loop from there up to the break-away switch. But that wasn't my Q, which was simply how do you get your trailer high enough to get under it to do the wiring?

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

......... But that wasn't my Q, which was simply how do you get your trailer high enough to get under it to do the wiring?

I'd jack up one end at a time using two jacks, supporting it on jack stands. You could also use ramps. How high to you need to lift it?

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

But that wasn't my Q, which was simply how do you get your trailer high enough to get under it to do the wiring?

The only wiring that's under my Trillium is the electric brake connection. Access to that point is easy- I just put the tongue of the trailer on the floor, which lifts the rear enough to make the axle area accessible. A floor dolly is nice...

The rest of the trailer wiring is inside the trailer. Access to the point up front where the pigtail enters the trailer used to be a stand-on-your-head affair since it's under the front bench and in a corner to boot. I solved that problem when I installed outside access hatches on the trailer sides at all four corners....now I can just open the hatch and see the junction box.

Francesca