Parkliner Tire Rub issues?

[Francesca Knowles]

If it's a matter of wrong sizing of the tires, permanently downsizing that spec would solve the problem.

But the tire size spec can't be so close to well size that minor differences between tire manufacturer- or even tire type- will matter.

Francesca

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

If you've got the Flexiride, Deryk, replacement may never become an issue since some of the main components can be serviced replaced. (Unlike on a Dexter, which must usually be replaced entire).

I'm surprised to hear that Parkliner may have started with the Flexiride but switched to Dexter- I wonder why? It'll be most interesting if the divide between those with rubbing tires and those without is the axle brand!

Francesca

The Flexiride axle has a splined stub on which the arm is attached, this allows ride height (start angle) to be adjusted.
Dexter is welded to a fixed ride height and so the start angle can not be adjusted.
Otherwise they are about the same design and quality, so they will wear out in about the same amount of time. Probably 20-30 years.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by floyd

The Flexiride axle has a splined stub on which the arm is attached, this allows ride height (start angle) to be adjusted.
Dexter is welded to a fixed ride height and so the start angle can not be adjusted.
Otherwise they are about the same design and quality, so they will wear out in about the same amount of time. Probably 20-30 years.

I was referring to the fact that on a Flexiride, certain parts such as the spindle can be replaced if broken. (Broken spindle is probably the most common torsion axle "failure".) On a Dexter, if the spindle goes the whole shootin' match is toast.

Francesca

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Is there more than one "Kumho 857", perhaps in sizes other than the 14's mentioned?

I ask because according to this link, the Kumho 857 14" radial is for trailer use only, which makes it pretty much an ST whether it says so on the sidewall or not.

It's also not a commercial tire, since it lacks the UTQG rating required for such a designation.

Francesca

UTQG rating is US Dot rating. This Kumho tire is rated as a trailer tire in the USA market. In other markets in the world where this tire size (14") is common for smaller commercial vehicles ( smaller delivery vans, etc ) the tire is sold as a commercial light truck tire. A guess would be that KumhoUSA sees it as not logical to market it here as a commercial tire, since it is almost unheard of to see commercial vehicles on US roads with 14" tires. In pacific rim countries, and much of Europe, small commercial vehicles are common as city delivery vehicles. So it's sold over yonder as a commercial vehicle or trailer tire, and it's sold here as a trailer tire.
It has a higher speed rating, and part of the reason it does is that safety regulations in most countries require road use tires that are used on vehicles that carry people, meet certain safety standards, among those standards, the ability to survive a test at max load, max air pressure, and the appropriate speed, for a designated period of time. In this case, this is a 99mph rated tire.

Nowhere in any of my posts have I stated that I am certain that simply going to a smaller diameter tire is going to be "the" solution to the tire clearance problem on these trailers. But I think it could be, but that obviously need to be determined br the trailer company. I could imagine that it could be any of several factors, and it certainly sounds like the guys at the factory are giving the issue the full attention it deserves. I simply threw out the idea that "if" the issue turns out to be something that could be solved by the simple means of installing a smaller diameter tire, that my opinion is it would be possibly a good opportunity to install a better quality tire. If any of you feel that running a bias ply, ST tire of a lower speed and load rating on your trailer, then by all means, vote with your dollars. Buy and run what you like. I am literally just trying to give another viewpoint regarding an item that is a critical part of the safe operation of a trailer being towed.

I'll leave the discussion regarding whether it makes sense to run LT tires on trailers for another day and different thread ! If any of you would like to discuss that, feel free to start another thread. I will throw in on it regarding my experiences of ST trailer tires in C, D and E load ranges, as well as LT tires on the various trailers I regularly tow. We have a number of trailers. I'll give you a hint: we when load our prized Arabians in the gooseneck horse trailer.....it does not roll on ST tires.

I am certainly among the curious here to see what the resolution is to the tire rub issue on these trailers. Color me......"waiting".......

[Birmingham1]

Given all the talk about tires, I thought I would mention it looks to me that future sag will not make this problem worse. It does not look to be a north-south issue. It appears to be more of an issue where the tire is rubbing after it has some horizontal movement at the axle, and then primarily because of the tapered wheel well that curves back in towards the tire a little bit (in two directions...you can kind of see that in the pics). I think you could bounce it up and down all day long and not cause the problem.

I don't think raising the axle will fix the problem as that does nothing to correct any horizontal flex.

A tire that gives more clearance at the point it is rubbing would appear to solve the problem permanently, even after a few years of sag (it happens to us all I guess, but I'm avoiding it as long as possible).

I think some minor fiberglass work could also fix this problem. It wouldn't need to be a complete redo of the wheel well, just a minor adjustment to pull the bottom part of the wheel well further away from the tire.

Just my thoughts. I'm probably wrong.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Birmingham1

the tapered wheel well that curves back in towards the tire a little bit (in two directions...you can kind of see that in the pics).

I noticed that in the pictures...and I think someone said that there's about two inches of space between the inside surface of the tire and the trailer body.

I hate even to bring this up, but is it possible that the axle is just a little too long? Would an inch "inwards" place the tire in a position more central to the well, with plenty of up/down room and clear of the flared fender area?


Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Birmingham1

Just my thoughts. I'm probably wrong.

Naw I think you have about as good a chance as any other suggestion as to the fix that have been made so far at being right through!

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I noticed that in the pictures...and I think someone said that there's about two inches of space between the inside surface of the tire and the trailer body.

I hate even to bring this up, but is it possible that the axle is just a little too long? Would an inch "inwards" place the tire in a position more central to the well, with plenty of up/down room and clear of the flared fender area?


Francesca

That is possible and yes, that may resolve the issue.

It may also be the wheels have too great an offset, moving the tires too far out. A wheel with a smaller offset may also fix the problem (assuming there are wheels with a smaller offset).

Of course, it could be a combo of a tire that is drastically out of spec AND one or several of these other items. A Perfect Storm of Tire Rubbing adventure. I may write a book. It will turn into a movie, of course.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Birmingham1

That is possible and yes, that may resolve the issue.

It may also be the wheels have too great an offset, moving the tires too far out. A wheel with a smaller offset may also fix the problem (assuming there are wheels with a smaller offset).

Of course, it could be a combo of a tire that is drastically out of spec AND one or several of these other items. A Perfect Storm of Tire Rubbing adventure. I may write a book. It will turn into a movie, of course.

Mark,
Most trailer wheels are zero offset, so I'd be surprised if that turns out to be an issue.
Can I have a bit part in the movie ? I'll play the honest tire salesman that tries to get everybody to buy decent tires for their trailers......forever ending side-of-the-road-delays to change out a cheap tire that threw it's tread and tore up your trailers bodywork......

[accrete]

just as a silly note...

the "sagging down" is actually better in the case of PL and what is currently going on. Case in point... I invited 4 big ol boys from the tire center to climb into the PL while the owner and i checked clearances on the tires...the problem vanished. IOW, the more weight in the PL (up to a point...we were starting off at 2400lbs full tanks/cupboards today, and added ~180 x 4 = ~ 700lbs?) the more clearance in front as the dexter is flexing up and back, putting more clearance between front outer tire area and the outside front fender area.

----On wheel offset...
The boyz at the tire center stated out stock PL steel rims were zero offset. They could not locate any negative offset trailer rated wheels. They did have some -.5 offset front wheel drive alloy passenger wheels that were the bomb...but not rated for use on trailers ,( i believe that would have taken care of the issue also . . the negative offset of wheel.

[Birmingham1]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Mark,
Can I have a bit part in the movie ? I'll play the honest tire salesman that tries to get everybody to buy decent tires for their trailers......forever ending side-of-the-road-delays to change out a cheap tire that threw it's tread and tore up your trailers bodywork......

Absolutely. Maybe in the movie you can dress a little like a prophet...robes and such. That'd be swell!

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Birmingham1

Absolutely. Maybe in the movie you can dress a little like a prophet...robes and such. That'd be swell!

That'll work ! I've already got the shaved head, so this could work.

And just a note to Thom regarding the offset of the wheels: you'd want to be careful if trying to go to a wheel with offset. The axle manufacturer specs whether an offset wheel can (and how much) or cannot be used. The little bit of reading I've done on it on the dexter site, they recco zero offset. Going to a wheel with offset places greater stress on the bearings and axle. If you do happen to want to go to wheels with some bling, check out the Sendel site. They seem to be the OE supplier of choice these days in the US market, and they have a nice selection of wheels in various sizes, bolt patterms and load ratings.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I was referring to the fact that on a Flexiride, certain parts such as the spindle can be replaced if broken. (Broken spindle is probably the most common torsion axle "failure".) On a Dexter, if the spindle goes the whole shootin' match is toast.

Francesca

The arm/spindle can be replaced, but(in my experience) age and wear are the most common reasons for replacement.
I have only seen one broken spindle on a Dexter axle. The only spindle I've ever seen actually break, on a fiberglass trailer, was on a 30year old Compact Jr with a 1" straight spindle which had been converted to a cargo trailer. It was grossly overloaded with lumber and was jackknifed into a curb while backing up.
It was directly welded on a straight axle with leaf suspension.
So while I do concede that advantage, and the adjustability, I see neither as particularly significant as related to longevity.
I do like the Flexiride but I have only seen it on their website and don't know if the price of the limited versatility(or the parts) would justify the cost.

[Tim Wood]

I'm glad to see that Chandler has chimed in on the discussion , I know that he is very busy without the tire rubbing problem. I am sure he will figure things out with a solution.

[accrete]

"Bling" : )
At some point cari and i are going with powder coating the stock steel wheels flat black. . . they will then closely match our van's wheels.

Though i ramble on with some possible solutions...i'm not going to make the call on what that will actually be since i'm a computer geek rather than a mechanic. I'll let Chandler make the call : )

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Is there more than one "Kumho 857", perhaps in sizes other than the 14's mentioned?

Yes, there are multiple sizes... the Tire Rack and KumhoUSA pages show three sizes, although all are 14".

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I ask because according to this link, the Kumho 857 14" radial is for trailer use only, which makes it pretty much an ST whether it says so on the sidewall or not.

Tire Rack is a reputable company, but they're only the retailer, not an authoritative source. They only market this tire for trailers. Kumho says it is:

For commercial light truck, transporter, van and trailer.

George already covered this subject well. By coincidence, the suggested 185R14 size would be a near-stock replacement for the Mazda Rotary Engine Pickup owner who recently posted here about towing with his truck.

"ST" is a Tire & Rim Association standard designation. "Trailer use" and "ST" are certainly not the same thing; ST tires are only for trailers, but not all trailer tires are ST.

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

It's also not a commercial tire, since it lacks the UTQG rating required for such a designation.

Where did that idea come from? UTQG ratings appear on some LT tires, but are generally for tires used on passenger cars, not those used on commercial vehicles.

[Donna D.]

Humm, maybe moving the axle back about 1/2" would cure the problem or would that cause the tire to rub on the back of the wheel well...

[accrete]

LOL...yup...moving the axle back a 1/2" would do the trick!
I just hope the solution is easier...that dexter axle is welded and incorporated into the frame design on the parkliner. And well, i'd sorta like to use my #035 this camping season!

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

... on a Flexiride, certain parts such as the spindle can be replaced if broken. (Broken spindle is probably the most common torsion axle "failure".)

While I agree with Floyd that spindle failure is relatively rare (other than as caused by bearing failure due to poor installation or maintenance), I think replaceable components are still of value, because in most FlexiRide axles the rubber cartridge can be replaced... and that's what fails in Dexter Torflex axles after a quarter century or so.

[Brian B-P]

Offset
Although current trailer practice is typically to have zero offset, when Dexter themselves made trailer wheels (a manufacturing operation the sold which now operates under the "Dexstar" name) at least some had 1/2" offset (which means the wheel is 1/2" inboard from a zero-offset wheel). My Boler has what I believe to be the original 14" wheels, and they have 1/2" offset.