Per! Roger! Burro Wide Body owners - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-31-2007, 11:14 PM   #1
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Per, On your wide body, you commented that changing to 14 wheels and tires would give you a better margin on load rating.

I noted when I ordered new 13 inch ones today.. (I got the Best Goodyear Marathon C rated STs), that the highest load rating I could get was 1480.

X 2 that equals 2960. You said your Burro weighed in at 2980 loaded, with water.

I believe we are equipped almost exactly the same, so now I am concerned. For the time being, I have no choice but to replace the rotted ones with new ones on the same wheels just to get it out of where it is in front of the sellers house. There is no time or place to experiment.

Did you have to do any axle mods to get the 14s to work? Why would Burro put tires on that exceed the load of the trailer?

Am I understanding the tire load ratings wrong?
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:51 AM   #2
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Gina:

We traveled for several years with the original tires, but as I got further into it I realized that the margin in terms of load was essentially 0. An untenable position in my mind. When I looked for higher rated tire on the 13inch wheels I could not find one.

So I looked at the specs for 14 inchers and found that I could put tires on with significantly higher load limits. Here is what I ended up with:

First of all the wheels: 14" 6.00 JJ 5-bolt, with what I believe is 0 offset. The originals had 3/4" offset. The tightest clearance was from the tire to the inside, but the 14inchers actually increased this by 1/4", no problem there. There is, with the new tires, a slightly closer tolerance than original in front of the tire, but not enough so there is a problem. (When brakes are applied the force would tend to move the wheels backward anyway, so that works well.) No problem anywhere else, including on top.

My trailer is currently at roughly 2850lbs plus 290 tongue weight. I would guess yours might come in a smidgen higher if you have similar equipment but a roof-top AC. I think my jury-rigged AC comes in quite a bit lighter. It is important to realize that in mine the curb side is about 200+ lbs lighter than the street side because of all the appliances and kitchen. This is apparently not unusual, but it means that the instantaneous load on the street tire during a high-speed right turn could be much higher.

I went to Les Schwab and we discussed the clearances in order to get the right combination of wheels and tires. (They were very helpful). The wheels are the standard-looking trailer wheels, white with pinstripes, etc. The tires are a brand I never heard of, and they had to order them. From the code I believe they were made in a factory in Israel (!). Look like good tires to me, and I'm well satisfied. Here is what the markings are:

"Super Trac, ST2000"
DOT 1NL7 F78-14
6 P.R. Load range C
Max load 1760 lbs @ 50 psi
ST205/75 C 14/6 AWC 729 Hi Speed Trailer
(cost me 47.63 per tire, mounted and balanced).

With the load as it is, the formula they gave me ended up with a suggested pressure of about 45psi. I sometimes run them a bit closer to 50psi, but the difference is trivial. The old 13inchers ran at 60 or 65psi, I believe, and considerably rougher.

There are some other benefits in that there is slightly more road clearance, which also affects ease of dumping and the like.

Good luck changing these out. When I saw the numbers the changeover was a no-brainer.
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Old 02-01-2007, 02:06 AM   #3
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Well, for now I have no choice. As mentioned, the trailer is currently in front of the sellers house in an area that is covered in snow most of the year, so we (Kurt is helping) have a very short window of time to get it out of there. The guy is moving soon as well.

It will come home for the weekend, but go down the hill to my trailer guy next week for a safety inspection etc. and look into a weight distibution hitch. I can have him check on new wheels and tires.

Yes, I do have the rooftop air, so thats a factor. In looking through all the literature, there isn't a single option that is NOT on this trailer, so it's got to be a bit heavy.

Thanks for the info! You 'splained well without confusing me!
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:13 AM   #4
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Gina, it appears that the Escondido Burros must have been a little heavier than the Sac City Burros. Further, I hadn't considered A/C weight as mine didn't have it. The '87 also had VERY small holding tanks. I expect that the '99s are much larger. The 2960lbs probably gave an adequate margin on my '87. It doesn't sound sufficient for yours.

Per has good thoughts.

Rog
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Old 02-01-2007, 07:55 AM   #5
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Gina,
I ran across this wheel recently. It comes in 14" 5x4.5" 0 offset as Per spec'd. If you like aluminum mod, they were reasonably priced. Aluminum Wheels
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:06 AM   #6
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Gina, I'm assuming (don't you hate that!) you're pulling the Burro wheels and having the Marathon's mounted. My suggestion, to save you some money, is go to a Used Tire joint and have some cheap tires put on...just enough for you to get this baby home. Why spend money if you only need to go a short distance? We've got Used Tire joints all over the place here in Portland. The tires cost next to nothing...they're trying to keep them out of the landfill...and I'd trust 'em to go at least 100 miles! Then you can spend the money you've saved on some spiffy new 14" wheels and good tires
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Old 02-01-2007, 10:34 AM   #7
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David, there's an AMerica's tire on my way in to work, I'll have a quick look, thanks!

I only ordered the tires, I can cancel them. I trust Pers measurements, so I think it safe to get that and see.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:02 AM   #8
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Could you pull the wheels from your Burro and use them on the new one to pull home?
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:27 AM   #9
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No, mine are a 4 bolt pattern.

The tire place just called to tell me my tires are in. I explained the problem to them. They have no problem canceling the order and are looking 4 a 14" wheel to pers specs and appropriate tires.

They will call me back.

speak of the devil.. they just did. They have a proper wheel and 185/14s with a 2k load rating. These are "D"s whatever that means.. something about 8 ply.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:01 PM   #10
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"D" and 8 ply are good things. I think stepping up the tires is a good thing.
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Old 02-01-2007, 12:15 PM   #11
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No, mine are a 4 bolt pattern.

The tire place just called to tell me my tires are in. I explained the problem to them. They have no problem canceling the order and are looking 4 a 14" wheel to pers specs and appropriate tires.

They will call me back.

speak of the devil.. they just did. They have a proper wheel and 185/14s with a 2k load rating. These are "D"s whatever that means.. something about 8 ply.
The "D" means bias ply(not radial and older technology) and usually less expensive. Some dealers will quote "D" prices(lower price than the guy quoting "R") to get the sale. Most people on this forum seem to think "R"(radial ply) is the only way to go especially if you travel only paved roads. However if you do any off road travelling there are those that say the heavier sidewall(...something about 8 ply) on "D" rated tires better withstand abuse from rocks or rough ground that you might encounter . A lot of the older 13' and 17' trailers were manufactured prior to radial tires and came equipped with "D'" rated tires. Hope this helps.
Bill
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:59 PM   #12
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Bill, wrong D. In this case, the "D" is the load rating.

These tires are radials.

Here is a brief explaination.

Tire code explainations
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:51 PM   #13
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The "D" confusion is why full specs are good...

I would rather have 205 mm wide load range C tires (e.g. ST205/75R14 LR-C) instead of 185 mm wide load range D tires (e.g. ST185/75R14 LR-D or whatever these proposed 185 tires are), when both can handle the load. This isn't a road racing bicycle, it's a motor vehicle rig. It's an axle with as much weight on it as a full-size pickup or SUV, and at least a 205 mm tire which can be run at a more moderate pressure seems appropriate to me... but I've been known to have a different opinion on tires than many others.

According to Goodyear's RV tire inflation/load table, a pair of their trailer tires (all ST-rated radials) to handle up to about 3000 lb of axle load could be
  • any load range C (or higher) tire 185/80R13 (Gina's originally ordered size) or larger, or
  • any load range B (or higher) tire 215/75R14 or larger
They don't have load range D ST models in the smaller sizes which would fit our trailers, although if you can fit a 215/75R15 you can use an LT instead, which does come in LR-D (unlike the same size ST).

When I Google-searched for the Super Tracs, I found only bias ply (e.g. ST205/75D15) but they were just for-sale ads. Per, are your tires radials or bias-ply?

Coincidentally, "F78-14" is the original equipment size for my 17' Boler, and my current tires are that equivalent 205/75-14 size which Per found. The axle load is similar to the Burros, and I want bigger tire than that.
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:04 PM   #14
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$0.02 Worth
ST205/75R14 are relatively common and available in small towns and out of the way places.
185/14 aren't very common and may need to be ordered(hopefully not back ordered) if there is a future problem. FWIW IMHO
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