Portable Propane Heater - Page 3 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 01-30-2013, 11:24 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
Brian, I tried your link, but it did not find the article. I did a bit of digging and came up with this, from the same site.
http://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/112559/co03.pdf
Thanks, David. CPSC does say they reorganized their site, and my link was obsolete; yours is the intended document. I corrected the link in the original post.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:32 AM   #30
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Now people are free to do what ever they want, but from experience living on a boat unvented propane heaters do add moisture into the air which increase the chance of mold. Now if you really feel the need to to burn an unvented heater into you sleeping area at least leave a window close to your head open for some fresh air, and get a new co2 detector and leave it close to the heater... this way if it does go off there is a good chance you will be able towake up and fix the problem.

Now 1 winter on my 2nd boat I just didn't have the money for a diesel heater and picked up a kerosene heater. I had 1 window next to it always open, and when I slept had 1 above me open as well. A friend kept tellin me I was gonna die for sure even with windows open...brought his co2 detector over we had food and watched a movie and he was very suprised it didnt go off.

Just try to play it safe.

deryk
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:16 AM   #31
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Brian B-P: Yes, thank you, I did intend to say "do NOT produce as much CO".

Bob
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:50 AM   #32
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Coleman's manuals on their small catalytic heaters actually states in big bold letters: "Never operate the heater while sleeping".

Also Carbon Monoxide detectors need to be replaced *every five years*.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #33
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"Never operate...while sleeping". Sound advice...widely ignored, I suppose on the assumption that an open window or an air source will obviate risk. I hope my comment that catalytic heaters produce less CO was not taken wrong. I was simply responding to an earlier comment that there was no need to worry about CO with catalytic heaters. Less does not translate to safe; you should worry.
Newer trailers have CO detectors, but you have to wonder how many older ones out there don't.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:11 PM   #34
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Now people are free to do what ever they want, but from experience living on a boat unvented propane heaters do add moisture into the air which increase the chance of mold. Now if you really feel the need to to burn an unvented heater into you sleeping area at least leave a window close to your head open for some fresh air, and get a new co2 detector and leave it close to the heater... this way if it does go off there is a good chance you will be able towake up and fix the problem.

Now 1 winter on my 2nd boat I just didn't have the money for a diesel heater and picked up a kerosene heater. I had 1 window next to it always open, and when I slept had 1 above me open as well. A friend kept tellin me I was gonna die for sure even with windows open...brought his co2 detector over we had food and watched a movie and he was very suprised it didnt go off.

Just try to play it safe.

deryk
Thanks for the information everyone. I found a national park to stay in West Yellowstone that has electric for a total of $22.00, less if my national park pass valid for a discount. I just talked to the host and all is OK for our visit in May.

I had not planned to use the catalytic heater at night if we stayed inside Yellowstone but rather use the furnace sparingly while sleeping.

Regarding living on a boat. We (2 adults and 3 kids) lived our our boat for the summer while our house was being built. It was great except when I stepped onto the dock one morning and it was covered in ice and fell into the ice cold river! Never did that again. I bought a dehumidifier and ran the drain line out the side of the boat. Worked great and actually helped heat the inside too. I miss those days. Thank heaven for RVing.

Regards.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:37 PM   #35
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Everyplace this subject comes up, the famed "2002 catalytic heater study" comes up, too- as if results from the testing of a single tiny model of a type predating low-oxygen shutoffs is of any value in a discussion of modern, safety-shutoff equipped catalytic heaters.

What was it that Pope said about "A LITTLE learning" as a dangerous thing?
"Drink deeply- or NOT- of the pierian spring".

Who among y'all has actually read that oft-referred to study? And, more importantly, the much bigger study of which this was just an offshoot, the concurrent examination of radiant propane heaters? (Link) That's by far the more important and relevant study in any discussion of portable propane heaters, and yet- neither its conclusions, its recommendations, nor its final effect on heaters marketed today EVER comes up!

Properly designed, EQUIPPED, maintained, and operated propane heaters of both kinds, if approved for indoor use, are perfectly safe to use indoors, and an in-depth reading of both studies will inform any interested party why that's true.

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Old 01-31-2013, 04:48 PM   #36
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The basic problem seems to be that some folks assume that if a propane heater is stated to be for use indoors that there is no danger in using it indoors. The *current* manual for the MH9Bx Mr. Buddy Portable for example does say its ok to use indoors but it also reads in part:

warning:
If the recreational or commercial enclosure does not have a window or roof vent, DO NOT USE THIS HEATER INSIDE.

warning:
Combustion by-products produced when using this product contain carbon monoxide, a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects (or other reproductive harm).

warning:
Early signs of carbon monoxide poisoning resemble the flu, with headache, dizziness and/or nausea. If you have these signs, heater may not be working properly. Get fresh air at once! Have heater serviced.


As Francesca rightly pointed out education is the key.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:17 PM   #37
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And I'm a long-time, still breathin', well-educated user myself. When I do use one, and never in the trailer, it's in our hunting cabin with an appropriately opened window. It's a much larger space than the trailer, for one thing. These things can be approved for indoor use until HFO, but I'm still going to open a window, and not put much trust in an ODS, or a thermocoupler, or tip-over device that was most likely made overseas in the cheapest manner possible.

And I don't totally trust CO detectors. Here's a link I uncovered when I was looking into placing a CO detector in a building, per our new California law requiring them. Apparently the science of good CO detection is still developing. The next to last paragraph spells it out, some are reliable, some ain't. Bottom line for me is...don't put all that much faith either the heaters, their safety devices, or the alarms designed to alert you. Trust the dealer, but cut the cards.

Carbon Monoxide - Leading Cause of Poisoning Deaths | July 2011 Inspector eNews
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:10 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by deryk View Post
Now 1 winter on my 2nd boat I just didn't have the money for a diesel heater and picked up a kerosene heater. I had 1 window next to it always open, and when I slept had 1 above me open as well. A friend kept tellin me I was gonna die for sure even with windows open...brought his co2 detector over we had food and watched a movie and he was very suprised it didnt go off.
I hope "co2" (meaning CO2) instead of "CO" was just a typo. As it seems must be stated in every one of these discussions, carbon monoxide (CO) is the toxic stuff to be detected, and carbon dioxide (CO2) is the plentiful gas which is a normal product of good combustion of hydrocarbon fuels.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:55 PM   #39
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sorry brian just a typo, we can't all be perfect all the time
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:05 PM   #40
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Instead of putting in a propane heater, I decided to take my Honda 2000 gen set and put in a small cermanic heater. Would be cheaper for the time being.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:28 PM   #41
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sorry brian just a typo, we can't all be perfect all the time
No apologies necessary. I'm never perfect; if you manage to be perfect just some of the time, you're doing better than I am!

But seriously, lots of people do confuse CO and CO2...
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:34 PM   #42
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Speaking quietly, so as not to increase the acrimony, (troll).


What I found real interesting was the conditions that produced a 60% LEL. In the natural gas industry, 20% LEL is an alarm, 40% is a shutdown.
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