Possible Broken Rivet

[DKReed]

Hi, I'm Krestine and I'm new to Fiberglass RV as well as RVing in general.
I’ve been full-time in my Scamp since May 4 and about two weeks ago noticed that a cabinet is pulling away from the trailer frame. I sent an email with photos to Scamp and got the reply, "Cabinet probably just needs to be re-fastened in place. Rivet probably broke on top."
Of course, I am really concerned about whether or not this is this a major structural issue or just something I need to get fixed? I’m not having much success at getting a local RV repair shop/person due to the fact that all are over booked at this time of year. Would appreciate any input about what I need to do. Photos attached

[Jon in AZ]

What does the outside look like? Is there still a snap cap on it? It looks to me like it is loose and possibly allowing a little water to seep in.

In any case, the repair is straightforward. Replace the rivet along with the plastic base and snap cap. If you're going to own a Scamp this is a repair you need to learn how to do. Do a Google site search on "replace rivet" and you should turn up some helpful tutorials.

It's not something you have to do today or even tomorrow, but sooner is better than later.

[Darral T.]

Yep...welcome to the wonderful world of Scamp rivets. I feel that this area IS "structural". I've had the EXACT same issue with my closet. I'm including a link to the Flickr site where I show my leak and fix. And just this year, I've had to repair ANOTHER leaking rivet over my kitchen cabinets. Mind you, my Scamp is only used apx 4 times a year and the rest of the time it remains under a carport out of the sun.

The "black" looking stuff is where water is getting in and mixing with the aluminum (rivets) as they shift continually when you're going down the road-- especially over bumps and what have you. In fact, that's what gave it away for me. And YES, you will have to get it fixed or your closet area/rat fur will be getting soaked and the smells alone would get pretty rough in my book.

Oh yes, and you're going to hear how wonderful Scamp and their rivets are. Maybe in the past they were steel? Mine are aluminum for sure.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/503516...57633366995497

This has worked for me the past few years and as you can see; and NO it's not rivets but screws and locknuts. People tell me about how I'm going to crack the structure etc. Whatever. I'm happy with it.

Originally Posted by DKReed

Hi, I'm Krestine and I'm new to Fiberglass RV as well as RVing in general.
I’ve been full-time in my Scamp since May 4 and about two weeks ago noticed that a cabinet is pulling away from the trailer frame. I sent an email with photos to Scamp and got the reply, "Cabinet probably just needs to be re-fastened in place. Rivet probably broke on top."
Of course, I am really concerned about whether or not this is this a major structural issue or just something I need to get fixed? I’m not having much success at getting a local RV repair shop/person due to the fact that all are over booked at this time of year. Would appreciate any input about what I need to do. Photos attached

[AyoLane]

Hello I also see this issue from time to time. I also have completed a lot of boat repairs in the last few years. I am learning that rivet fail but a positive alternative is stainless steal screws and lock nuts sealed with 4200 (a flexible boat sealer) a more stronger solution you can use (5200) but this is a lot harder to remove if you ever need to. I have used (4200) and never had any leaks on my sailboat. Make sure when you look for SS hardware you need to bring a magnate, it should not attach itself to it if its good SS. Hope it helps.

[redbarron55]

My own feeling is that all of these rivets are structural, but there are too few of them to actually strengthen the structure to any extent.
The movement in the two structures and the lack of enough bonding with enough rivets let the parts work against each other and loosen the rivets even more.
I looked at all of the rivets in my 1986 16' Scamp and every one of them was loose and working (leaking too).
The through the hull fasteners were pretty much in that condition because the insulation prevents them from being held tightly together when pulled with as weak a fastener as a Pop rivet. At least the SS screws can draw the parts together. Be sure to use washers to spread the load out to keep from breaking the relatively fragile fiberglass.
The one interior parts with no signs of working and leaking on my trailer were the wood (mushboard) rear over head cabinets. They were held in with wood screws into the particle board. No leaks and the parts were held in quite well.
I think the deluxe models with wood cabinets are made the same.
When I installed my new oak cabinets (modified from a cabinet discount store) I did the same, using countersunk washers and screws and pre-drilling the holes to not split the oak. I also cut away the insulating (ensolite) insulation along the mating line and used structural glue to bond them in place and make certain there would be no leaks. The screws were also sealed with a fed dollops of Gorilla glue in the countersunk hole and under the washer and head of the screw. No plastic caps to fail!.
As a result the added cabinets, walls and closets actually stiffen and strengthen the trailer. There are also no holes remaining from the old installation those being gound out and filled with fiberglass filler. (AKA Bondo).
Good luck with your fix. You can buy SS hardware at Lowes, boat shops and Aircraft Spruce and specialty (aircraft).

[DKReed]

Thank you all for your replies to my dilemma - all very helpful info.
Greg of SOI hooked me up with an SOI member in Anacortes, Steve (SOI Member - KeepOnTrying), who is a godsend when it comes to repairing and customizing. I’m at the 1000 Trails in LaConner/Anacortes, WA, so how perfect could it get. With Steve's help I got the broken rivets replaced, which is just a stop gap. In Sept we are planning a major revamp of the cabinet housing the refrigerator. In the original plan 4 layout that cabinet holding my refrigerator was a closet. The original owners had the large refrigerator installed there. I only want or need the smaller refrigerator. Currently looking into whether or not we can put the smaller fridge where it really belongs (in the cabinet next to the stove). If not, the extra space left from installing the smaller fridge will make a nice cabinet or drawer.

I've come to the conclusion that it was misguided or ill advised for Scamp to put the large fridge in a closet in a layout not designed to support that size refrigerator. According to Scamp specs only the Deluxe 16' can have the Dometic RM2410 installed.

[floyd]

Come to a ScampCamp, if I'm there I'll fix it in just a few minutes, or a few hours if you count the conversation time!
If I'm not there, there must be someone who is there and does what I do at ScampCamps.

Never had a broken screw or rivet yet in eleven years,(Scamp13D) but I have seen a few and the closet at the roof is common, but easy to make a permanent repair.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by DKReed

I've come to the conclusion that it was misguided or ill advised for Scamp to put the large fridge in a closet in a layout not designed to support that size refrigerator. According to Scamp specs only the Deluxe 16' can have the Dometic RM2410 installed.

Can you expound on this? What leads you to conclude that there is not enough support for the larger fridge there?

I have a 16 Std Layout 4 with large fridge on order. The fridge goes in the area of the closet next to the door, thats the Scamp way. But I do not know how it is mounted or supported and now you have me worried.

[Darral T.]

Gordon,
While he didnt expound on it, I've had trouble with that same closet in a 13'! Mine doesnt have a refrige there but I have a 1.9 under the sink cabinet. What I'm saying is, I'm not sure the fridge contributed to the rivet failures.

Floyd always states he's never had a failure and his is a "Deluxe" which is mostly a wood interior and it has MANY less rivets. A lot of the older Scamps people seem to say they havent had any issues. I think it MAY be installation of cabinets/rivets with some of the workers. Not sure.

Anyway, I fixed mine with 3/16" (#10) Bolt & Nylok nuts. Here's a link to some photos I took of my problem. Notice the WILD bent rivet I took out of there. Maybe something's out of whack when they're installing the closet and such force can cause the alum. rivets to do this??? Then it fatigues. These didnt break but worked loose and started leaking.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/503516...57633366995497

Originally Posted by gordon2

Can you expound on this? What leads you to conclude that there is not enough support for the larger fridge there?

I have a 16 Std Layout 4 with large fridge on order. The fridge goes in the area of the closet next to the door, thats the Scamp way. But I do not know how it is mounted or supported and now you have me worried.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Darral T.

... Here's a link to some photos I took of my problem. ...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/503516...57633366995497

Thanks D.. I have actually seen your photos a few times... very interesting.

[DKReed]

The pix of the bent rivet is what mine looked like when removed. But my problem involves the additional issue with the cabinet pulling away from the curve in the roof. I can place all my fingers up to the palm in the gap. If it were just broken rivets, I'd replace them, but what really rises concern is the cabinet movement. Kent at Scamp basically said he'd not seen it before and questioned if the Scamp had been in an accident or ran into something. Well, not to my knowledge. I crawled under and took photos for him. In Eddie's reply on the SOI site he too wondered about the frame. I don't see any new welds or anything bent.

[RogerDat]

Not surprised that the fasteners for the awning are different than for the closet. Awning rail takes a considerable wind force pulling on it. While the closet does provide some structural support the rivets mostly just need to hold it in place for it to perform that function.

Have to wonder if the closet might have been over loaded or someone was on the roof at some point in time and caused that rivet to get bent like that. But it is worth noting the rivet is bent but the FG is not broken. Odd. Don't know what it means but just sort of puzzling. Hard to imagine the aluminum bending like that under load without the FG showing cracks or some damage.

[Darral T.]

Gordy...sorry for the redundant post. I jump on occasionally and try to contribute...and didnt realize I had basically already posted the same info in this topic. Oh well.. yer welcome anyway

Originally Posted by gordon2

Thanks D.. I have actually seen your photos a few times... very interesting.