Progressive Dynamics PD-6911 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 12-19-2006, 10:46 PM   #1
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Trailer: 1978 Trillium 13 ft
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I LOVE this time of year....I love sugar cookies in particular! So, I bought a little toaster oven to make some sugar cookies (you know, the nasty-oh-so-good Pillsbury ones) in my 1978 Trillium 1300 at the dog shows on Saturday nights. Nothing sounded better than holing up with a book, or a DVD, my 3 dogs, and smelling sugar cookies baking in my toaster oven. I hooked up the toaster oven, sliced off a couple slices of dough, and started the toaster oven. Then the lights went dark. DARN!!

I can run a rice cooker in my trailer, but can't run the toaster oven, even if all the lights are turned off. I have a Progressive Dynamics PD6911, and in the little infopage/manual that came with the trailer, it says it is supposed to have a 15 amp fuse. BUT, on the front of the converter, the fuse door (it's a blue button that says "press") says 10AMP very clearly. I haven't taken the fuse out yet, but, could I replace the 10 amp fuse with a 15 amp fuse, as that's what the manual says it is supposed to have? AND, if I do that, will I be able to run my toaster oven and maybe a hair dryer (not at the same time obviously!!), or am I looking at having to replace the converter with a newer model?

Here's my next question. Assuming that I must replace the converter, 1)how involving is the project, and 2) are there any converters out there that take up the same space as the older ones (12"Lx3.5"Dx6"H)? I really don't want to cut up the Trillium - she's so nice and I'd like to keep it original if possible. BUT, I want some darned sugar cookies baking in that trailer over the New Year's weekend! :-) I have the next week and a half off, so I can devote some time to the project, but not if it is too overwhelming...

Thanks,
Daisy
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:26 AM   #2
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Daisy, I'm a little confused. Your converter powers the 12v system. Your toaster oven, unless it's 12v runs off the 120AC system which should have it's own breaker box somewhere. The 120v AC and 12v DC systems are completely separate, except that the 12v DC converter requires 120v AC to operate.

I doubt that replacing a 10 amp 12v DC fuse with a 15 amp fuse in a DC converter that calls for a 15 amp fuse will cause any problems at all, but I also doubt that it will solve your problem. If your converter is working and gives you 12v lights when you're plugged in to 120v AC, then there's really no reason to replace it, unless it's not properly charging your battery or you have some other issue with it.

Can you describe where your 120v circuit breaker/fuse box is located? If you have the same setup as I had in my '87 Burro, a breaker-outlet, you probably will either have to replace the fused outlet with a standard outlet and residential-style breaker box under the sink. My breaker-outlet was so weak I couldn't run an electric heater.

This photo is of the breaker-outlet my Burro had in it:


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Old 12-20-2006, 06:34 AM   #3
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Could be that it has an "inverter" (12v to 120 ac )and its a small one not able to handle the load the toster requires ?
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:22 AM   #4
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I was thinking about that after I posted, and of course you're correct. When you look at my converter's front panel, there is a fuse on the right, which upon closer inspection is for the 12V system. On the left, there's a push/pull type fuse for the "115vac" system. When the toaster oven is plugged in, this button pops out, and pushing it in restores power to the trailer. So the 10amp fuse I was looking at was for the 12V system. The pushbutton on the left is for the 115v AC (isn't it suppose to be 120? Maybe that's my problem).

So that's kind of what I was thinking after browsing more through the site...either replace the breaker in the converter, or get a residential breaker box to replace it, or get a new converter entirely...

Thanks,
Daisy

Quote:
Daisy, I'm a little confused. Your converter powers the 12v system. Your toaster oven, unless it's 12v runs off the 120AC system which should have it's own breaker box somewhere. The 120v AC and 12v DC systems are completely separate, except that the 12v DC converter requires 120v AC to operate.

I doubt that replacing a 10 amp 12v DC fuse with a 15 amp fuse in a DC converter that calls for a 15 amp fuse will cause any problems at all, but I also doubt that it will solve your problem. If your converter is working and gives you 12v lights when you're plugged in to 120v AC, then there's really no reason to replace it, unless it's not properly charging your battery or you have some other issue with it.

Can you describe where your 120v circuit breaker/fuse box is located? If you have the same setup as I had in my '87 Burro, a breaker-outlet, you probably will either have to replace the fused outlet with a standard outlet and residential-style breaker box under the sink. My breaker-outlet was so weak I couldn't run an electric heater.

This photo is of the breaker-outlet my Burro had in it:


Attachment 5714

Roger
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:28 AM   #5
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Daisy, it sounds like you have a 120v AC side and a 12v DC side to your converter. I'm not conversant at all with that specific model. I'm not sure I understand the "push-pull" fuse on the 120v side either.

Perhaps if you could post a photo of the box, it would be easier to give you some suggestions about how to deal with your problem.

Roger

On edit... in the OLD days when I grew up, it used to be called 110v AC. Then over the years, 115v AC appeared, and now the actual voltage should be a nominal 120v AC. It's all the same stuff and as long as you're plugged into an outlet provided by a commercial power supplier (your electric company rather than a genset) source, it should be fine.
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:20 PM   #6
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Like many trailers, this does sound like an AC power distribution panel (just like the "fuse box" or "breaker panel" in a house) packaged along with the converter (which takes AC and makes DC), and probably the 12V DC fuses (or breakers) as well. All of mine (in my Boler) are in two boxes which are attached together.

The toaster oven takes much more power than the rice cooker, so it sounds like the main AC circuit breaker, or the breaker for the circuit that supplies the outlet, is either undersized or just old and tired (breakers tend to start tripping at lower-than-specified current when they get old). Fortunately, if it's just a matter of a new breaker of the right rating (no wiring changes), then that's probably cheap and easy (depending on brand!).
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:04 PM   #7
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Trailer: 1978 Trillium 13 ft
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Quote:
Daisy, it sounds like you have a 120v AC side and a 12v DC side to your converter. I'm not conversant at all with that specific model. I'm not sure I understand the "push-pull" fuse on the 120v side either.

Perhaps if you could post a photo of the box, it would be easier to give you some suggestions about how to deal with your problem.

Roger

On edit... in the OLD days when I grew up, it used to be called 110v AC. Then over the years, 115v AC appeared, and now the actual voltage should be a nominal 120v AC. It's all the same stuff and as long as you're plugged into an outlet provided by a commercial power supplier (your electric company rather than a genset) source, it should be fine.
Here's a picture of the converter, taken from the manual that I have (the actual convert looks just like this, but it's too cold/I'm too lazy to go outside, and the manual is right here). When I say push/pull, I mean when the circuit breaker is tripped, the button pops out, and you must push it back in to restore power to the circuit. I'm not sure how to replace it. I'm going to stop by RV Parts Outlet in Tigard today and pick the owners' brains :-)

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Old 12-20-2006, 02:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Like many trailers, this does sound like an AC power distribution panel (just like the "fuse box" or "breaker panel" in a house) packaged along with the converter (which takes AC and makes DC), and probably the 12V DC fuses (or breakers) as well. All of mine (in my Boler) are in two boxes which are attached together.

The toaster oven takes much more power than the rice cooker, so it sounds like the main AC circuit breaker, or the breaker for the circuit that supplies the outlet, is either undersized or just old and tired (breakers tend to start tripping at lower-than-specified current when they get old). Fortunately, if it's just a matter of a new breaker of the right rating (no wiring changes), then that's probably cheap and easy (depending on brand!).
Heh, except I have no idea how to install a new breaker. As there's no access panel on the outside, I'm guessing I'll have to remove the converter on the inside? As I said before, I am lucky enough to live within driving distance of a store called RV Parts Outlet, located in Tigard - those guys are a great source of info. I'll post what I find out from them later today, and hopefully you all will have more information a well!

Thanks again,
Daisy
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:28 PM   #9
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There may not be a problem with your breaker. Your picture shows a 15 amp breaker. At 120 VAC, that translates to 1800 watts. Before you buy a new breaker, check the wattage on your toaster oven. If it's over 1800 watts, a new breaker will trip as well.
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:13 PM   #10
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Daisy, I think Jason nailed it. If your breaker is weak, it should be reasonably simple to replace, but I'd check your toaster oven first and see what kind of wattage you're actually drawing.

Roger
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Old 12-20-2006, 04:37 PM   #11
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An appliance which draws more than 15 amps would need to be equipped with a 20A style (or higher-capacity) plug, and would likely not be compatible with a typical receptacle (there is a 20A style with the same pins/blades, but one is rotated from the orientation it has in the 15A style). I would be very surprised if a toaster oven needed more than 15A, since essentially all household receptacles are wired and breaker-protected for 15A, but it might need very nearly the whole 15A all by itself. But Jason's right: it costs nothing to read the label on the appliance.

The AC breakers in my Boler are normal household units (toggle switch style), not the push-to-reset type here. On my 12V DC side, it does have similar-looking circuit breakers (they're actually rated for at least 125V, but fine for low voltage DC as well). I needed to replace one (same tired old early-tripping problem), and could not find them for a while, but they are now in Go-RV's Coast catalog (as Bussmann Panel Mounted Breakers, page 79, 15A is item 13419), and thus readily available and cheap; it seems that they are now only an RV item.

To do the replacement safely, there must be no power connected. With no master switch in sight, the obvious solution is to unplug the cord which supplies AC power to the trailer. Still be careful around the converter, as there may be some capacitors in the there holding some charge.

If the Progressive Dynamics unit has this style of breakers, they are removed by removing the nut which surrounds the part which sticks out, then pulling them out of the hole in the panel from the back. That means at least the front panel must come off, which is likely easy. Note that the terminals to which the wires attach are available as ".25" or 90 degree bent"; the first means flat quarter-inch-wide blades (also known as a spade) to match a push-on terminal on the wire, while it looks like the bent terminals have screws for bare wires or forked wire ends. This means either buying both types and returning the ones which don't match, or taking the panel off for a look before buying. Mine (on the DC side, and a different converter brand) were the 0.25" spades.

Finally, I notice that there are two of these push-to-reset (no "pull") breakers: my guess is that one feeds the outlet and the other feeds the converter. Usually the ratings are printed right on the end of the button which pops out; the converter should need only a few amps.
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Old 12-20-2006, 06:41 PM   #12
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Seems possible that somewhere down the road someone replaced the breaker switch with a 10A version, possibly due to availability, when the original 15A version went soft......looks like it could simply be replaced with a 15A Bussman Panel Mounted Breaker and problem solved... ..Benny
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:20 PM   #13
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Wow, we just bought a Delonghi oven just for the Burro - for cookies of course!! I checked, it is 15 amps. I was wondering if I could put it on a extension cord and stick it through the same hole that the major electric cord goes through.

Don't most RV campsites have a couple of plugs, one regular and one for the usual RV cord. That might solve the problem of lights or chocolate chip cookies

Merry Christmas, everybody
Christi
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Don't most RV campsites have a couple of plugs, one regular and one for the usual RV cord.
Lots of people run their "Flamingo" Patio lights from the awning to the campground power box via extension cord. It's the KISS principle.
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