Propane stove mod

[Greg A]

After a furious camping summer with the new to us Scamp, one of the ideas I'm kicking around is better functionality with the propane stove.
Never used it yet, always use the portable one outside. What I'm thinking is to remove the permanent propane stove and build a sort of containment box that mounts down in the hole and the portable stove sets in the containment box with a cover which goes over that so externally no difference from existing. Then run a hose connection with a shutoff so that it can be hooked to the propane tank and used inside if needed. Otherwise, you just lift it out and take it out to the table and use it outdoors with a bottle. Don't recall seeing a mod out here like this, anyone done one similar?

[Donna D.]

Isn't this kind of like the portable stove used in a tent trailer?? I remember several years back my cousin taking the stove out of the inside his Coleman trailer and using it outside. There was a bracket, similar to an awning rail that the stove was mounted to....

Sounds like a good idea to me, at any rate.

[Tom Trostel]

I believe a portable Coleman propane stove uses high pressure and is not meant for use indoors. A high pressure leak inside would be a very bad thing. The built-in cooktop, furnace, frig, etc. all use low pressure propane that is regulated it the propane tank.
Tom Trostel

[Paul from NWOnt]

I believe a portable Coleman propane stove uses high pressure and is not meant for use indoors. A high pressure leak inside would be a very bad thing. The built-in cooktop, furnace, frig, etc. all use low pressure propane that is regulated it the propane tank.
Tom Trostel

Actually, the bottle hooks up to a regulator, so the stoves actually use low pressure propane where the line hooks into the stove.

It could be done, the question is would it be worth the hassle of setting it up.

[Tom Trostel]

Some interesting reading

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=458141

[Greg A]

Coleman sells the hose to hook your stove into a 20lb propane tank which is also linked in the article Tom provided, so I don't think that it would be much of an issue to install a cutoff for that hose to use with the stove indoors when needed.
Shouldn't be much of a building project to make a tray that would hold the stove, with a square attached to the bottom of the tray of 1/2" x 1/2" that fits down in the old stove hole and anchors. You could then build just a slightly larger stove cover than the current one and the appearance with the cover on would be the same as it is now. We have yet to use the stove inside, so I doubt you'd even hook it up inside but once in a blue moon. Most of the time I'd take it outside after arriving in camp and use the bottle. Sure would eliminate having to basically transport two propane stoves, one of which we're never using.

[Brian B-P]

Yes, this is a common setup for tent trailers, and makes sense to me (one less thing to carry). Those inside/outside stoves are based on a design which is normally built in, not a portable unit.

All stoves do inherently run on low pressure gas, delivered from a regulator which brings the high tank pressure down to a suitably low level. In our trailers, the regulator is mounted by the propane tanks outside; portable stoves have it somewhere between the tank and the control.

The problem with adapting an outdoor stove this way is the the regulator and the control are usually in the same device (in current typical Colemans, the thing with the knob that screws onto the 1-lb cylinder)... there's no way to feed it low pressure propane, because you can't intercept the plumbing between the regulator and the control. Some barbecues (like my Porta-Chef) put the regulator at the tank end of the supply hose, and the control at the appliance end, so a simple hose change lets you set them up for low-pressure supply (such as a quick-connect port on the side of the trailer, like an RV-Q).

While a supply line of high-pressure propane could be plumbed into the trailer interior, I wouldn't do it.

If you can find a portable stove with separate regulator, you're on your way. Otherwise, I would start with the indoor stove, rather than the portable one, to build this system.

[Greg A]

Brian,

Good info. Question for you if I'm following what you are saying I'm confused on one thing.
Isn't the line to the current permanent stove already low pressure as it is coming off the regulator at the propane tank on the outside. So if one can put the right adapters on this line to attach to the portable stove wouldn't this be one and the same?

[Greg A]

Here's a thought that would be easy, since the need for the inside stove is minimal.
I found this stainless steel stove with a 2' hose that attaches the bottle.

Century Stove

One could simply hook up the bottle and set it behind the stove when using inside and the same hose and bottle for outside. This would eliminate the need for the permanent line/regulator issues.
Nice looking stove to boot!

[Brian B-P]

...Isn't the line to the current permanent stove already low pressure as it is coming off the regulator at the propane tank on the outside.

Yes.

...So if one can put the right adapters on this line to attach to the portable stove wouldn't this be one and the same?

No, because a typical portable stove "expects" to get high-pressure gas directly (that is, without a regulator between the input fitting and the propane tank). If you feed propane already regulated down to low pressure into the input of a regulator on the stove, I doubt there would be any propane flow.

If you could attach to the plumbing in the stove after the regulator, then yes, it would be like a permanent stove connection.

Originally posted by REI.com description of Century Deluxe Stainless-Steel Two-Burner Stove
[b]Includes a 2-ft. hose assembly with regulator that connects to a 16.4-oz. disposable propane cylinder; easily converts to bulk cylinder operation

This linked Century stove looks like a promising find.

A stove with the regulator mounted on the end of the hose, not built into the control or directly coupled with a pipe, would allow the use of a different hose with a low-pressure quick-connect fitting to be substituted, allowing to work with a matching outlet fitting inside the trailer and plumbed to the trailer's regulated supply. To use it outside, the included portable regulator would just be fitted with a quick-connect outlet (like the one in the trailer).

If it really does have a separate regulator, this Century stove is effectively like my Porta-Chef barbecue grill; however, in the photos on the Century Tool & Manufacturing - Propane Stoves web page, it appears that the only real difference is that instead of the usual rigid tube, the connection of propane cylinder to stove is a flexible hose (a nice feature, anyway). Only if that device screwed onto the cylinder is simply a regulator with 11" WC pressure output would this stove be suitable. It might be... I tried to look at the owners manual, but that page at Century seems to broken.

[Brian B-P]

One could simply hook up the bottle and set it behind the stove when using inside and the same hose and bottle for outside. This would eliminate the need for the permanent line/regulator issues.

That's the same as using any outdoor stove inside (except that the hose flexibility would allow the cylinder to be less in the way)

• you need to either use those annoying little disposable cylinders, or bring a high pressure bulk supply into the trailer (neither is good)
• this is explicitly forbidden by all of the outdoor stove instructions which I have seen

Exactly why are outdoor stove not acceptable inside (even with just a 1-lb cylinder)? I don't know.

[Greg A]

Only thing I can find so far on that is:

Charcoal and propane will take the oxygen out of your air, and this can be fatal quickly if you use them indoors. The only way you should ever even consider using these indoors is if there is a blizzard outside or you can't get outdoors at all for some reason. And then, you would have to be sure to open every door and window so that the air supply is constantly renewed. Even then use it only as long as necessary for cooking and keep the windows and doors open long afterward to be sure that there is enough oxygen indoors.

But we already have a propane stove in the trailers so

[Brian B-P]

Charcoal and propane will take the oxygen out of your air...

But we already have a propane stove in the trailers so

Exactly my thinking!
The problem is presumably with the propane supply (the cylinder in the interior), rather than with the burning of propane.

[Greg A]

Well, I'd definitely recommend against this procedure.

Blowing up 16oz propane

[colin k]

After a furious camping summer with the new to us Scamp, one of the ideas I'm kicking around is better functionality with the propane stove.
Never used it yet, always use the portable one outside. What I'm thinking is to remove the permanent propane stove and build a sort of containment box that mounts down in the hole and the portable stove sets in the containment box with a cover which goes over that so externally no difference from existing. Then run a hose connection with a shutoff so that it can be hooked to the propane tank and used inside if needed. Otherwise, you just lift it out and take it out to the table and use it outdoors with a bottle. Don't recall seeing a mod out here like this, anyone done one similar?

I dont see your logic. Why not leave the existing stove and build a cover for it so you can use the counter.When you need a stove for the inside ,remove the cover. Assuming of course the inside stove works.
Coleman stoves have the knobs on the front of the stove so if you drop it into an enclosure the knobs are rendered useless.

[Greg A]

Logic is easy. Eliminates carrying two stoves one of which is never used(permanent). The stove that is used(portable) can then sit in the stove position for travel thus not taking up space in the tug loose on the floor or bed in the trailer. We don't have a huge tug like some folks here, we have a Jeep Liberty with two kids in the backseat so for us travel storage is at a premium and needs to be efficient.

The knobs are a non-issue and can be accommodated easily in the build.

[Frederick L. Simson]

What I'm thinking is to remove the permanent propane stove and build a sort of containment box that mounts down in the hole and the portable stove sets in the containment box with a cover which goes over that so externally no difference from existing.

How about if you build something to enclose the permanent stove so it could be used outside, rather than using the portable stove inside?

[Greg A]

How about if you build something to enclose the permanent stove so it could be used outside, rather than using the portable stove inside?

Sort of a "reverse engineering" thing. I'll take a look at that. Might be more work though in the long run and I'd end up with a 25 year old stove vs a new one.

[Brian B-P]

Yes, this is a common setup for tent trailers, and makes sense to me (one less thing to carry). Those inside/outside stoves are based on a design which is normally built in, not a portable unit.

How about if you build something to enclose the permanent stove so it could be used outside, rather than using the portable stove inside?

I agree, Frederick... that's the normal approach.

On issue which no one has mentioned is height. The inside/outside tent trailer systems normally put the stove on a base which sits on an extra-low counter in the trailer, which puts the burner tops at about normal counter height. Blanking off a built-in stove mounting location (or even worse, building up a cover over a built-in) places the stove quite high, which can be an issue for clearance to the upper cabinets.

Some custom counter work could also mean opening up the front for control knob access.

Might be more work though in the long run and I'd end up with a 25 year old stove vs a new one.

Good point, but by the time this is done well in any design it will be enough work that it might be worth splurging on a new stove anyway. How about a brand new built-in type stove already in the inside/outside housing, purchased as a tent trailer replacement part?

[Brian B-P]

I know this topic has petered out, but in case anyone is still considering it, or just to provide some closure...

I contacted Century customer service, who said that it was not possible to supply their camp stoves (even the ones with a hose instead of a pipe) from either a direct propane tank supply, or a low-pressure RV supply.

I eventually got around to looking at my own Coleman two-burner camp stove, and realized the problem. The device which screws onto cylinder at the end of the supply pipe (equivalent to the hose in some Century models) is a regulator with a 15 PSI output. The final reduction from this intermediate pressure down to very low pressure is done by the individual burner controls. My Coleman regulator is fixed at 15 PSI; I suppose some others might be adjustable to tune the range of operation.

In an RV, the regulator produces only 11 inches of water column, which is less than one PSI; every RV appliance is designed to accept that pressure. The regulator is usually (and is in my Boler) a two-stage device.

Essentially, the thing on the end of the camp stove tube (or hose) is a first-stage regulator, producing a constant but still substantial pressure from whatever the propane in the tank happens to be, just like the first stage of the RV regulator. The individual burner controls take the place of the RV's second regulator stage.

If you supply the camp stove controls direct from the propane tank (high pressure), they will not be steady (because there is no regulator) and may allow a dangerously high flow (because the pressure will likely be more than 15 PSI). If you supply them from the trailer's 11"WC low-pressure line, they won't have enough pressure to work.

My barbecue configuration looks similar to a camp stove setup, with the external regulator; however, while the camp stove has intermediate pressure coming down the hose from the regulator, the barbecue has low pressure coming down the hose from its regulator. That's why the barbecue is compatible with an RV supply, and the camp stove is not.

In the end, I think an in/out stove needs the controls of an indoor stove (running on 11"WC of propane) to be functional.