Raining from the ceiling - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 11-05-2015, 02:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
When propane is burned, it releases a large quantity of water vapor!

In my experience when dealing with condensation the use of propane stove top will greatly increase the condensation level in the trailer so one does need to run a fan when using the stove top & for some time after.

Most newer propane trailer furnaces (manufactured in the last 25 years or so) are well vented to the outside & have built in fan so they do not add much in any condensation.

Unfortunately many of the older furnaces found in small fiberglass trailers 30 years old or more are not well vented to the outside or have a fan ( the reasons you can not purchase them anymore), so the use of them will greatly increase the condensation levels in the trailer. Same with Catalytic heaters as well as the small portable propane heaters - all will increase condensation issues.

If possible one would be better off to use a small portable electric heater if one has an old rv propane furnace or a portable propane furnace.
Carol, None of the furnaces in my 40 year old trailers contributes to condensation. Where did you get that idea? All of the products of combustion go outside the trailer. Just like a forced air furnace.

As for the reason you can't purchase them any more, I think your assertion about a lack of venting is wrong. I would love to see any evidence that leads you to tell people that.

The reason you can't purchase them any more is that the surface temperature can get dangerously high and there is a theoretical risk of fire if something combustible, like bedding, comes in contact with them.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cat futrell View Post
...We have discussed installing a furnace. Not wanting to put additional drain on the battery we think a gravity furnace would best suit or needs. (I think that is what they are called). Any thoughts about what type of non electric furnace. Those that I have looked at are costly. $400.00 and up...
Cathy, your options are limited. A heater will help, but only if it does not involve combustion inside the cabin. The alternatives, as I see them:
  • Catalytic heater. Some are freestanding and some are wall-mounted. No power required. All run on propane and all involve combustion inside the cabin. They will make the condensation problem worse because water vapor is, as Carol said, one of the major by-products of combustion. Probably not a good choice for your situation.
  • Electric heater. This is the simplest. Ceramic heaters are the best, IMO, for a small space. Since there is no combustion, they should help the condensation situation. But they require electric hook-ups. Hook-ups and dispersed camping are mutually exclusive choices.
  • Forced air furnace. This is the system of choice in most new RVs. The combustion chamber is sealed off from the cabin, so they would help with condensation. They require DC power to move the heated air, so for extended dry camping you will need a way to recharge the batteries (solar or small generator). They are expensive (don't know about used), and adding solar or a generator will add to the cost.
  • Gravity (radiant) furnace. This is what David is referring to. No power required, and a sealed combustion chamber, so it would help with condensation. But they are no longer made, and, as he mentioned, there are potential safety concerns. There seems to be a market among boondockers for used ones stripped from old campers, but I'm guessing you'd need to be pretty knowledgable about LP systems. I wonder if most reputable RV techs would even touch one…?
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Originally Posted by Cat futrell View Post
...we found discounted insolite locally and opted to go with that. I have been rethinking that decision. Even contemplating applying an additional layer of insulate which is almost unthinkable...
Have you considered instead adding a layer of "rat fur" from Scamp or a similar marine hull liner product? I don't know if it's the texture or the fibers trapping a layer of air between the cabin and the shell, but I haven't heard many condensation complaints with it. In fact, I have heard people mention condensation dripping from the acorn nuts that cover the through-hull rivets but never the rat fur itself. It's more pleasant to brush against during the night, too.

The Scamp rat fur product is thin and a little bit stretchy, so installation on the compound curves is, by most accounts I've read, much easier than Ensolite-type closed cell foam products.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:11 PM   #17
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Jon,

Thank you for the clarification.
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Have you considered instead adding a layer of "rat fur" from Scamp or a similar marine hull liner product? I don't know if it's the texture or the fibers trapping a layer of air between the cabin and the shell, but I haven't heard many condensation complaints with it. In fact, I have heard people mention condensation dripping from the acorn nuts that cover the through-hull rivets but never the rat fur itself. It's more pleasant to brush against during the night, too.

The Scamp rat fur product is thin and a little bit stretchy, so installation on the compound curves is, by most accounts I've read, much easier than Ensolite.
We did consider rat fur, but because of allergies and asthma wanted surfaces that could be wiped down and not hold allergins. If we knew that this much condensation were possible we may have made a different choice. Do you think that the rat fur gets damp just doesn't drip? That has always concerned me. Anything that will hold moisture is not my friend.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:40 PM   #18
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With only one experience in cold, damp conditions, I'm not really sure. Perhaps others from humid parts can say more. But if you have allergy issues, that would probably rule out the rat fur anyway.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:02 PM   #19
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But if you have allergy issues, that would probably rule out the rat fur anyway.
Why? This kind of headliner is used in motor vehicles...
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:54 PM   #20
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No furnace Vince?
I guess I should introduce myself and trailer. I'll do that in the "Hi, I am..." forum. There is a furnace but for now the propane system is disconnected. More details in my introduction thread...
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:43 AM   #21
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Why? This kind of headliner is used in motor vehicles...
Really? Other than the carpet on the floor it's been a long time since I've seen any surface with a nap on the inside of a passenger vehicle. They are tightly sealed and use allergen-trapping cabin air filters now, too.

But in regard to rat fur, I suppose it would depend on the type of allergy. Rat fur resists mold and mildew pretty well (it was designed for marine applications, after all), but it will catch more dust and pollen than a smooth surface shell lining. We have an abundance of both in the Southwest. Regular vacuuming helps.
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Old 11-08-2015, 07:15 PM   #22
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Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


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Old 11-09-2015, 08:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
Carol, None of the furnaces in my 40 year old trailers contributes to condensation. Where did you get that idea? All of the products of combustion go outside the trailer. Just like a forced air furnace.

As for the reason you can't purchase them any more, I think your assertion about a lack of venting is wrong. I would love to see any evidence that leads you to tell people that.

The reason you can't purchase them any more is that the surface temperature can get dangerously high and there is a theoretical risk of fire if something combustible, like bedding, comes in contact with them.
David note I did not say the older furnaces lacked venting. I said they were "not well vented".

David each and every time the topic of the use of the older furnace comes forward you raise the same debate. Lets just agree to disagree as obviously our expert sources as to why those furnaces were discounted have different opinions.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:05 PM   #24
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Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


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Cathy a waterproof mattress cover would help keep the mattress dry but not solve the problem, you will still have a moisture issue under the mattress. The best option is to get some air under it by using a product such as hypervent.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:30 PM   #25
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Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


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Might keep the mattress dry, but you'll sweat.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:36 PM   #26
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Really? Other than the carpet on the floor it's been a long time since I've seen any surface with a nap on the inside of a passenger vehicle. They are tightly sealed and use allergen-trapping cabin air filters now, too..
I guess my point was, there's so many other fabrics in a trailer that can bring on allergies, like curtains, upholstery fabric, carpet and even rug runners. At least Rat Fur is Marine grade and designed to NOT absorb odors, build mold and stain holding. The other fabrics in a trailer... not so much.
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:59 PM   #27
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I guess my point was, there's so many other fabrics in a trailer that can bring on allergies, like curtains, upholstery fabric, carpet and even rug runners. At least Rat Fur is Marine grade and designed to NOT absorb odors, build mold and stain holding. The other fabrics in a trailer... not so much.
Good point, Donna. If you're going to go truly hypoallergenic, you probably need to address the other stuff as well, especially the upholstery and foam. Seems like that could hide a lot of nasty stuff. Guess I'm glad I don't have major allergies, because I do like my rat fur. And my cushions and rug.
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
David note I did not say the older furnaces lacked venting. I said they were "not well vented".

David each and every time the topic of the use of the older furnace comes forward you raise the same debate. Lets just agree to disagree as obviously our expert sources as to why those furnaces were discounted have different opinions.
Carol, Every time you discuss the topic of older furnaces, you give the same inaccurate information. Please explain the difference between "lacking venting", and "not well vented". I would say that both imply that the products of combustion are entering the coach of the trailer. This is no more likely to happen with a gravity furnace then it is with a forced air furnace.

I am not depending on an "expert", just an understanding of the operation of gravity furnaces. They really are not that complex. A fire in an air tight box. They have a fresh air intake, and an exhaust for the products of combustion. They depend on the fact that hot air rises to work. If the flow of exhaust gasses is interrupted, then the flame will go out due to oxygen starvation. No exhaust, no fresh air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
When propane is burned, it releases a large quantity of water vapor!

Most newer propane trailer furnaces (manufactured in the last 25 years or so) are well vented to the outside & have built in fan so they do not add much in any condensation.

Unfortunately many of the older furnaces found in small fiberglass trailers 30 years old or more are not well vented to the outside or have a fan ( the reasons you can not purchase them anymore), so the use of them will greatly increase the condensation levels in the trailer. Same with Catalytic heaters as well as the small portable propane heaters - all will increase condensation issues.
The last sentence is simply wrong. Also, the "reason you can not purchase them anymore" is also wrong. When I see inaccurate information, I feel compelled to provide a correction. I am sorry if this offends you.
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