Raining from the ceiling

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Why? This kind of headliner is used in motor vehicles...

Really? Other than the carpet on the floor it's been a long time since I've seen any surface with a nap on the inside of a passenger vehicle. They are tightly sealed and use allergen-trapping cabin air filters now, too.

But in regard to rat fur, I suppose it would depend on the type of allergy. Rat fur resists mold and mildew pretty well (it was designed for marine applications, after all), but it will catch more dust and pollen than a smooth surface shell lining. We have an abundance of both in the Southwest. Regular vacuuming helps.

[Cat futrell]

Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

Carol, None of the furnaces in my 40 year old trailers contributes to condensation. Where did you get that idea? All of the products of combustion go outside the trailer. Just like a forced air furnace.

As for the reason you can't purchase them any more, I think your assertion about a lack of venting is wrong. I would love to see any evidence that leads you to tell people that.

The reason you can't purchase them any more is that the surface temperature can get dangerously high and there is a theoretical risk of fire if something combustible, like bedding, comes in contact with them.

David note I did not say the older furnaces lacked venting. I said they were "not well vented".

David each and every time the topic of the use of the older furnace comes forward you raise the same debate. Lets just agree to disagree as obviously our expert sources as to why those furnaces were discounted have different opinions.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Cat futrell

Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

Cathy a waterproof mattress cover would help keep the mattress dry but not solve the problem, you will still have a moisture issue under the mattress. The best option is to get some air under it by using a product such as hypervent.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Cat futrell

Does anyone use plastic/waterproof mattress covers? Does that keep the mattress is dry.


Sent from my iPad using Fiberglass RV

Might keep the mattress dry, but you'll sweat.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Really? Other than the carpet on the floor it's been a long time since I've seen any surface with a nap on the inside of a passenger vehicle. They are tightly sealed and use allergen-trapping cabin air filters now, too..

I guess my point was, there's so many other fabrics in a trailer that can bring on allergies, like curtains, upholstery fabric, carpet and even rug runners. At least Rat Fur is Marine grade and designed to NOT absorb odors, build mold and stain holding. The other fabrics in a trailer... not so much.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I guess my point was, there's so many other fabrics in a trailer that can bring on allergies, like curtains, upholstery fabric, carpet and even rug runners. At least Rat Fur is Marine grade and designed to NOT absorb odors, build mold and stain holding. The other fabrics in a trailer... not so much.

Good point, Donna. If you're going to go truly hypoallergenic, you probably need to address the other stuff as well, especially the upholstery and foam. Seems like that could hide a lot of nasty stuff. Guess I'm glad I don't have major allergies, because I do like my rat fur. And my cushions and rug.

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Carol H

David note I did not say the older furnaces lacked venting. I said they were "not well vented".

David each and every time the topic of the use of the older furnace comes forward you raise the same debate. Lets just agree to disagree as obviously our expert sources as to why those furnaces were discounted have different opinions.

Carol, Every time you discuss the topic of older furnaces, you give the same inaccurate information. Please explain the difference between "lacking venting", and "not well vented". I would say that both imply that the products of combustion are entering the coach of the trailer. This is no more likely to happen with a gravity furnace then it is with a forced air furnace.

I am not depending on an "expert", just an understanding of the operation of gravity furnaces. They really are not that complex. A fire in an air tight box. They have a fresh air intake, and an exhaust for the products of combustion. They depend on the fact that hot air rises to work. If the flow of exhaust gasses is interrupted, then the flame will go out due to oxygen starvation. No exhaust, no fresh air.

Originally Posted by Carol H

When propane is burned, it releases a large quantity of water vapor!

Most newer propane trailer furnaces (manufactured in the last 25 years or so) are well vented to the outside & have built in fan so they do not add much in any condensation.

Unfortunately many of the older furnaces found in small fiberglass trailers 30 years old or more are not well vented to the outside or have a fan ( the reasons you can not purchase them anymore), so the use of them will greatly increase the condensation levels in the trailer. Same with Catalytic heaters as well as the small portable propane heaters - all will increase condensation issues.

The last sentence is simply wrong. Also, the "reason you can not purchase them anymore" is also wrong. When I see inaccurate information, I feel compelled to provide a correction. I am sorry if this offends you.

[Carol H]

[I]Originally Posted by Carol H
Unfortunately many of the older furnaces found in small fiberglass trailers 30 years old or more are not well vented to the outside or have a fan ( the reasons you can not purchase them anymore), so the use of them will greatly increase the condensation levels in the trailer. Same with Catalytic heaters as well as the small portable propane heaters - all will increase condensation issues.

Originally Posted by David Tilston

The last sentence is simply wrong. Also, the "reason you can not purchase them anymore" is also wrong. When I see inaccurate information, I feel compelled to provide a correction. I am sorry if this offends you.

Once again David with all due respect I disagree.
I think if you do a little research on the science of how propane burns you will find that the last sentence is not wrong as you suggest.

[David B.]

Carol, you are right about water vapor resulting by burning propane with the catalyst and heater buddy heaters, but they both exhaust directly into the trailer. The older gravity heaters use a separate intake & exhaust for the combustion chamber, and use a heat exchanger to warm the inside air of the trailer using a separate intake & exhaust, (just like the newer forced air heaters, but without the fan) so no water vapor or CO is added to the trailer
Dave & Paula

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by David B.

Carol, you are right about water vapor resulting by burning propane with the catalyst and heater buddy heaters, but they both exhaust directly into the trailer. The older gravity heaters use a separate intake & exhaust for the combustion chamber, and use a heat exchanger to warm the inside air of the trailer using a separate intake & exhaust, (just like the newer forced air heaters, but without the fan) so no water vapor or CO is added to the trailer
Dave & Paula

Thanks David for confirming the water vapour produced by using catalyst and the Heather Buddy in a trailer. Its simple just how propane burns While I agree the amount of water they produce is fairly small the use of them is not going to help in reducing condensation levels in the trailer.

As I said earlier I am not going to argue further the points in regards to venting of the old furnaces of 25-30 years ago. Best the OP and others do their own research as to what all the safety issues where with the use of them should they happen to have one in their trailer.

[Franswa]

being new to the trailering stuff (couple of years)....I'm surprised I haven't heard of of people installing a heater like a Dickinson Newport P9000 propane fireplace/heater.....they are the cat's meow in boats.....probably too hard to locate/too hot for 13 footers but for 17s they would be the ultimate answer as fas as I can figure......location is the hard part...would involve giving up something else to make room for it.....but man, very little power consumption (or none) plenty enough heat, hardly any noise AND a nice flame to look at!!!!

I'm close to pulling the trigger on one

[Franswa]

DICKINSON NEWPORT PROPANE HEATER - P9000 Binnacle.com

[David Tilston]

Francois, That is a nice unit.

It should be noted though:
The BTU output is less then the claimed output of the two Trillium furnaces that I am aware of.
It does not seem to have a thermostat.
The vent would go out the top of the trailer.

I suspect that RV's have a different set of codes then boats. Therefore the heater manufacturer would have to get a completely different set of approvals so that a trailer manufacturer could install it. This is an expensive process. This would not stop you from installing it, but it might cause your RV service guy a problem. Maybe find someone to install it before you pull the trigger. That is, unless you can do it yourself.

[Franswa]

The BTU output is less then the claimed output of the two Trillium furnaces that I am aware of. I'm thinking BTU measurements are different with forced air furnaces vs this type of unit...because the volume in a 28-30 foot sailboat is probably pretty darn close to the volume in my 14 foot (inside) trailer

It does not seem to have a thermostat. No it doesn't, as I understand it you can set the flame from very low to very high...it's on constantly....YOU are the thermostat...sorta

The vent would go out the top of the trailer. Yep that's true...but if the system "works" on boats (way more water/wind than us) and it does very well.... it's hard to imagine a problem

I suspect that RV's have a different set of codes then boats. Therefore the heater manufacturer would have to get a completely different set of approvals so that a trailer manufacturer could install it. I was referring to a retrofit....probably never seen as OEM equipment cause they cost too much and/or it's not "usual"/ what people/industry are used to.

This is an expensive process No more than those Propex heaters everybody is raving about and installing as an upgrade

This would not stop you from installing it, but it might cause your RV service guy a problem. Ahhh, don't have one of those and I do my own propane inspect every spring

Maybe find someone to install it before you pull the trigger. That is, unless you can do it yourself.That would be the plan, I'd install it....and it's looking more feasable the more I look at it.....now I just have to find enough left over "trailer bucks" to make it happen...

when you take a tape measure out and start looking around...they are so small it is very possible in a "box" my size....and I identified a good route for the chimney even...

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

• Gravity (radiant) furnace. This is what David is referring to. No power required, and a sealed combustion chamber, so it would help with condensation. But they are no longer made, and, as he mentioned, there are potential safety concerns. There seems to be a market among boondockers for used ones stripped from old campers, but I'm guessing you'd need to be pretty knowledgable about LP systems. I wonder if most reputable RV techs would even touch one…?

Actually yes.
The guy I found to work on the propane in mine will work on gravity furnaces.
In addition to servicing propane systems he also is hired on as a consultant to the RV insurance industry when claims arise that might involve propane.

[bpfick]

Those small heaters that run on small bottles of propane put enormous amounts of water vapor into the air. A well vented furnace that does not put water vapor into the air is just about one's only good option when camping in a small egg during cold weather. Two humans and/or a large dog(s) also emit huge amounts of water vapor by merely breathing. That's about all I know. There may be something old or something new that will work, but I'm not famliar with them.