Rivets, need experienced input - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-08-2015, 12:06 PM   #15
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Trailer: '71 Boler, '87 Play-Mor II
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Originally Posted by RogerDat View Post
No silicon, not a problem to seal rivets. You just put a Snap Cap seal on them. If you want to have a little extra seal beyond that roll a little ball of butyl tape between your fingers, squish it a bit like a fat washer.

Put snap cap cup on and rivet right through the little piece of butyl. Rivet will squish most of it out, run a toothpick tip around the edge to "trim" off any excess butyl putty that sticks out. Put snap cap on cup.

By the time you do the third one you will have it down to a science. Glassing cabinets in is forever, if there is ever any damage to repair you will regret that choice, and a lot more work and expense in the first place.

Snap Caps work, are inexpensive, easy to use, hold for many years.

I would not put AC on a roof not designed for it. Too much hassle, either through the wall DIY or sell and purchase later model that had the roof support. But then that is me, my knowledge and skills. Much of that is knowledge of the limits of my skills learned the hard way. YMMV as might your level of expertise.
Thanks for the advice roger on the rivets, as far as the a/c goes I am going to reinforce the roof regardless of whether the a/c goes on top or not with the aluminum channel and vertical plywood wall/cabinetry from the floor as to prevent any future roof sag problems. It is worth the extra effort to me, and in the end if it is strong enough to hold the a/c then great, if not I will go with plan B and do the window a/c install in the closet. We will see how it turns out and I will let everyone know how sturdy it turns out.
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Old 06-08-2015, 12:59 PM   #16
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I didn't know there was a difference but I thought they could still leak water through where the pin goes...thanks for the tip!
Neither type of rivet should leak due to the pin type - if and when they leak it is normally due to being installed to loose or the hole they are in is to large allowing seepage around the rivet itself.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:42 PM   #17
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I got the cabinets on closeout from a cheap Chinese importer and I think I paid ~$400 for all of them. My wife knows since she is tracking the money I spend on the trailer. I got a piece of cardboard and fitted it to the curve. The depth is 12" and the height is also 12". I think you can see what I did in the pictures.
You do need two people to install them, but you need two for the fiberglass too.
You could feel the roof and sides stiffening up as you installed the cabinets.
I started at the plywood wall installed for the front bath and screwed horizontally through this wall and also glued the cabinet end to the wall with Gorilla Glue. Each cabinet is attached to it'd neighbor with glue and screws to add stiffness. Like I said it is like a 12" thick oak beam down both sides. These tie into the back crossover piece the A/C is mounted on. I really don't think I need any additional supports in this thing!

As to "POP" rivets there are basically two kinds. One the "nail" goes all the way through the tubular rivet and the other the rivet body is sealed and the nail and its head is within the rivet body and there is no hole on the end.

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Old 06-08-2015, 05:23 PM   #18
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Why not use self-sealing rivets? They leave the pin in the centre once installed.
They are hard to find when you need them. They are even harder to find in the odd lengths we use on the Scamp trailers. I often have to trim long rivets to fit and cutting the cap off the end will still leave an open rivet.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by redbarron55 View Post
I got the cabinets on closeout from a cheap Chinese importer and I think I paid ~$400 for all of them. My wife knows since she is tracking the money I spend on the trailer. I got a piece of cardboard and fitted it to the curve. The depth is 12" and the height is also 12". I think you can see what I did in the pictures.
You do need two people to install them, but you need two for the fiberglass too.
You could feel the roof and sides stiffening up as you installed the cabinets.
I started at the plywood wall installed for the front bath and screwed horizontally through this wall and also glued the cabinet end to the wall with Gorilla Glue. Each cabinet is attached to it'd neighbor with glue and screws to add stiffness. Like I said it is like a 12" thick oak beam down both sides. These tie into the back crossover piece the A/C is mounted on. I really don't think I need any additional supports in this thing!

As to "POP" rivets there are basically two kinds. One the "nail" goes all the way through the tubular rivet and the other the rivet body is sealed and the nail and its head is within the rivet body and there is no hole on the end.

Thanks for the information, the illustration is priceless! Now I have to go look and see what type rivets I got from Ace Hardware...As far as the cabinets even though I love the look can't spend that much on them so we are going to reuse the original fiberglass ones. The PO made wood doors for them which we will reuse (they have hand drawn images of Disney characters which our son loves Mickey). I am going to rebuild the closet with 3/4 plywood to accommodate our refrigerator and also construct the bath walls the same way so I will be sanding them & finishing them to look as nice as I am capable of so we will see how they turn out.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:56 PM   #20
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Johnny - your questions have generated a lot of great suggestions. I think they all offer improvement over the factory build.

When we brought home our used '02 Scamp I noticed that the roof was sagging a bit under the weight of the factory A/C. I installed a closet mounted A/C in a previous trailer and am convinced that the roof units are far superior (cold air falls / warm air rises) and worth the negatives; cost and taller height.

Anyway, I was determined to strengthen the Scamp's roof. I'm sure I went way over board - but 3 and-a-half years later it's still looking good.

Home built cabinets are glassed in place. All rivet holes filled with a glass patch. Wood ribs in what I thought were strategic places glassed and epoxied in place. Plywood panel added to the roof - glued in place with PL polyuretane adhesive and secured with four screw bolts - heads of the bolts are sealed with epoxy on the exterior and painted over.

Way over engineered - but it is solid.
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Old 06-10-2015, 10:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Steve_N_Janna View Post
Johnny - your questions have generated a lot of great suggestions. I think they all offer improvement over the factory build.

When we brought home our used '02 Scamp I noticed that the roof was sagging a bit under the weight of the factory A/C. I installed a closet mounted A/C in a previous trailer and am convinced that the roof units are far superior (cold air falls / warm air rises) and worth the negatives; cost and taller height.

Anyway, I was determined to strengthen the Scamp's roof. I'm sure I went way over board - but 3 and-a-half years later it's still looking good.

Home built cabinets are glassed in place. All rivet holes filled with a glass patch. Wood ribs in what I thought were strategic places glassed and epoxied in place. Plywood panel added to the roof - glued in place with PL polyuretane adhesive and secured with four screw bolts - heads of the bolts are sealed with epoxy on the exterior and painted over.

Way over engineered - but it is solid.
Thank you for the input! I considered wood ribs & plywood on the interior ceiling but wasn't sure that was the best way, so I thought I would go with aluminum u channel, but what you did looks very sturdy indeed. I really like what you did. Also looked at your Scamp's profile pictures which it turned out awesome...is that front toilet room also a shower? Really like the sink wanted to do this for my wife but with our layout I don't think there is room left for that...
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:42 AM   #22
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I think the wooden cabinets from front to back are a pretty good set of stringers to support the roof (and side walls).
Your setup on the side kitchen is very much like what I have done and I like it. I don't think the support is necessary with the full length overhead bins, but yours looks good!
I used the PL adhesive and sealant like you for most of the work, but I had some Bostick adhesive I started with.
Having used both 3/4" and 1/2" plywood I think that 1/2" is OK if it is glued and screws used to hold it in while it sets. I used sheet metal screws and pre-drilled the holes in the fiberglass after marking and removing the insulation. Then I added the glue to the inside if the shell and had help holding it tight and drilled pilot holes for the screws through the existing hole into the side of the ply. If you don't do this you may split the plies apart. The screws are just along for the ride after the glue sets anyway. I also used countersink washers and flathead sheetmetal screws so they would be almost flush when finished. I also added a dollop of Gorilla glue under the washer and screw head to make sure that this was sealed. Probably overkill.
Good luck with your project.
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Old 06-11-2015, 08:49 AM   #23
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They are hard to find when you need them. They are even harder to find in the odd lengths we use on the Scamp trailers. I often have to trim long rivets to fit and cutting the cap off the end will still leave an open rivet.
Do you have Fastenal in the US? They are a great source for rivets. Here are the type I use, avail in all sorts of diff sizes.

https://www.fastenal.com/products/de...6?term=0124916
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:39 AM   #24
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Allot of different lengths but not much available once you get past 3/4". Scamp uses several sizes between 3/4" and 1-1/4" which I have only been able to buy from Scamp. I have 10,000 rivets at home of all different types but long ones not so much. Mc Master Carr is also a good source.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:55 AM   #25
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I bought some large headed rivets from Fastenal and planned to use them instead of the button caps with sealant under the head, but went a different way.

The large head would spread out the stress and provide more surface for a sealant to work all the way around.
A dab of Gorilla glue on the hole where the nail breaks of would insure a seal. Also help rust proof the outside. (this particular is aluminum for the body and the mandrel so rust would not be an issue.
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Old 06-19-2015, 02:04 PM   #26
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Go to http://www.sailrite.com for every darn rivet you'll ever need plus plenty of instructional videos on all kinds of cool things.

The only advice I can give is to make sure the rivet just fits in the hole. If it's too small for the hole, it won't scrunch up properly inside to hold it tight.

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Old 06-19-2015, 08:12 PM   #27
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Since I retired in 05 I've lost count of the number of Eggs I have refurbished, at least 10.
I have replaced a great many rivets.
I use the standard, off the shelf Aluminum rivets from Ace hardware or any of the big box stores.
Five years ago I replaced every rivet and snap cap in a 16' Scamp because the snap caps were all gone and the cap collars were rotten.
I was caught in a rain storm in Teton Park that was so intense I had to pull off the road as I couldn't see.
It lasted almost an hour.
NEVER had a leak.
Sold a 73 13" Scamp 4 months ago that never had the snap caps so I replaced all of the rivets and snap caps.
There was a BOLTED on awning rail which every bolt had leaked.
After cleaning up all the RUST STAINS I riveted the awning rail on.


Plain old aluminum rivets are still holding 40 year old Eggs together well.
Why change a proven product.


I would rivet AFTER painting.
If you should have to replace a rivet, if its covered with paint and primer
it might tear the paint.


John
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perry J View Post
Since I retired in 05 I've lost count of the number of Eggs I have refurbished, at least 10.
I have replaced a great many rivets.
I use the standard, off the shelf Aluminum rivets from Ace hardware or any of the big box stores.
Five years ago I replaced every rivet and snap cap in a 16' Scamp because the snap caps were all gone and the cap collars were rotten.
I was caught in a rain storm in Teton Park that was so intense I had to pull off the road as I couldn't see.
It lasted almost an hour.
NEVER had a leak.
Sold a 73 13" Scamp 4 months ago that never had the snap caps so I replaced all of the rivets and snap caps.
There was a BOLTED on awning rail which every bolt had leaked.
After cleaning up all the RUST STAINS I riveted the awning rail on.


Plain old aluminum rivets are still holding 40 year old Eggs together well.
Why change a proven product.


I would rivet AFTER painting.
If you should have to replace a rivet, if its covered with paint and primer
it might tear the paint.


John
You make a good point, makes sense about the paint tearing if replacing a rivet, the only reason I considered painting after rivets was so the primer would help seal to prevent leaks but if the rivets won't leak if properly installed then I will paint first. Thanks for the reply John
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