RV parts and service near Seattle?

[Amy M]

Our new egg arrived late last night, and I have had a chance to take my first in-person look at her. As lovely as she is, there are some little things and some big things I need/want to fix or alter. (Little things: we have no key to the door, so it has a padlock on it, a rivet holding on one of the curtain rods fell off and left a small hole through the fiberglass, she needs a good buffing, the narrow, curved cushion for the lower bunk is missing. Bigger things: there is apparently no converter or AC wiring so I need to figure out what to do about that, windows may or may not be completely water-tight and I think are sealed with silicone.)

Anyway, I would love to find a place where I could go and browse, maybe buy a porta potty, and take the trailer to get things done that we can't do ourselves (which will probably be most things, since we are pretty un-handy).

Is there a good place in the greater Puget Sound area that has knowledge of these trailers? The only RV shop I saw listed in Seattle proper had a negative review online that made them sound like crooks.

[Larry&Carrie]

Our new egg arrived late last night, and I have had a chance to take my first in-person look at her. As lovely as she is, there are some little things and some big things I need/want to fix or alter.

Is there a good place in the greater Puget Sound area that has knowledge of these trailers? The only RV shop I saw listed in Seattle proper had a negative review online that made them sound like crooks.

Hmmm-- without sounding critical, I don't think you can afford Camping World in Fife...... They are oriented towards the Bulgemobiles.... There is an RV place up in Lynnewood on old 99 that I found the parts I needed. As far as knowledge on Scamp/fiberglass type trailers, I think most RV shops look as them a "cute-but not a real RV". Ask around and see if your acquaintaces have any ideas. Experience tells me that another egg owner (like the ones on the forum) have the most knowledge/experience. Larry

[Joe N]

Here are some you-tube videos to make you handy.
We all had to learn somewhere, none of us were born with the knowledge or ability.

how to use a rivet tool

(sometimes shows 15 sec commercial at the beginning, sometimes not)

how to use poprivets

pop rivet removal

You will need a drill, drill bits, pot rivet tool, pop(blind) rivets, snap base washers and snap caps.

These can all be purchased at hardware stores, Lowes, Ace, or whatever you have in your area. All these can be purchased at a reasonably low cost. The snap caps and base washers can be found in the specialty section of the hardware store.

You will need various lengths of the rivets as they will have to go through the snap base, fiberglass wall, insulation/wall covering and the curtain rod holder or whatever you are trying to attach.

It is mostly trial and error, if you mess up simply drill out the rivet as in the videos and start over. Drill just enough to remove the head of the rivet,do not enlarge the hole.

pop rivet tools & sample prices




snap bases



snap cap



edited to correct typos

[Donna D.]

Amy (and husband) as new molded lightweight fiberglass trailer owners I would really, really encourage you to learn and do as much of the maintenance issues as you can. Every dollar you keep in your pocket (from not paying labor costs) you can use to upgrade your trailer, spend on fuel pulling the trailer places or paying camping fees. And there's a certain pride about doing it yourself! You'll find lots of knowledge and help here on FiberglassRV, none of us were born with the "maintenance gene." I know I wasn't! I will pay to have somethings done, like welding and some electrical work. But doing the small stuff empowers me to try something harder. Frankly I think pulling and sealing framed windows is easy... but I didn't know that when I first picked up a screw driver to do it.

Looking at the list, you CAN replace the curtain rod bracket with a rivet and if it were me (and it's not), I'd wait until closer to camping season to get the gelcoat cut and buffed or maybe just a good wax. Even that is doable, it just takes time and effort (and I have more of that than $$).

YMMV

[Herb Sutton]

Donna speaks wisdom. None of us are born with skills.

I have bought parts a time or two at Evergreen RV on Aurora north of the bridge. I have no knowledge of their repair shop.

[Amy M]

Thanks for these videos. I am trying to get motivated and educated to take on some of these projects myself.

I do have one question. The snap cap is shown going over a screw head, isn't it? And the rivets seem totally flat. I am confused about how a snap cap relates to a rivet.

pop rivet tools & sample prices

Attachment 25156


snap bases
Attachment 25157


snap cap
Attachment 25158


edited to correct typos

[Donna D.]

Amy, in the last image, imagine the brass screw is a rivet. Same thing, the clear base is what the cap "snaps" onto.

[Raya]

Amy,

Just so you're not wondering if you're going nuts, the Bolers did not have snap caps on the rivets.

Bolers and Scamps have the same type of actual rivet, but Scamp puts the plastic caps on. I suppose it's partly to "hide" the rivet, and partly to provide something to tuck some sealant under.

If you look at the rivets on your Boler, you'll see that they just look like a little metal disc with a small hole in the middle; there may be a dollop of caulk in the center, to keep the hole from leaking.

I don't happen to like the snap-cap look, because to me they look like big pimples sticking up, but that is completely a matter of personal preference. In fact, I would bet that the majority of people prefer them.

I believe there are rivets that don't leave you with a hole in the middle, but I haven't used them. You can also just go back in with new rivets of the typical style, and use a dab of caulk on the hole.

Another method is to replace the rivets with machine screws and nuts (optionally acorn nuts, like are on the rivets on the inside now). These wouldn't have been used originally because they are more time consuming to install (requiring two people), but if you like the idea, well, you are only doing one trailer, not maximizing for building hundreds of units, so a few extra minutes on each one probably wouldn't be a deal-breaker.

Okay, I got on a roll - I really just meant to mention that the snap caps were not an original Boler "thing," so you won't find them on yours.

Raya

[Amy M]

Actually, the previous previous owner seem to have replaced nearly all of the original rivets with something new that has white plastic caps. I wrote to him to ask what exactly it is and what, if any, sealant was used, and I hope he will write back so I can decide to go in a different direction or something to deal with the ones that are leaking.

By the way, I went to the huge marine store near me today and had a great time. I got some 3M tape. They didn't have the exact number you gave me, but I hope it will work. It looks like a cross between duct tape and blue tape and says it will stay on and easy to remove for 6 months. I criss-crossed it over the leaking rivet holes and also taped a sheet of plastic all around the small window over the stove and taped along the top and side of the other side window that seems to be leaking. I hope that will at least give me some more information and stem the tide, so to speak.

They also were a good source of information for me about buffing, potentially painting, repairing cracks, battery chargers. I bought some marine caulk (at the salesperson's suggestion, for sealing rivet holes) but came back here and searched the forum and ended up glad I did, because the type I got has to be used up within 24 hours of opening. With iffy weather and a small child, any work we do will probably be in fits and starts.

I swing between optimistic that we can learn all we need to to keep the trailer in good health, and anxiety-ridden that we ended up with unanticipated problems that we can't handle or are even bigger than we know yet.

Amy,

Just so you're not wondering if you're going nuts, the Bolers did not have snap caps on the rivets.


Raya

[Raya]

Ah, sounds like those are the Scamp-type rivet caps then.

A marine store is a good resource, as boats are fiberglass and have to stand up to even rougher conditions, so the parts and caulks are usually high quality (compared to dedicated RV stuff). Sometimes I still like to buy RV stuff because it is lighter weight (hardware); it all depends.

Which caulk did they sell you that has to be used so quickly? 3M 4000 maybe? (I don't know as much about that one so that's my guess )

Hmmm, now I'm curious which tape you got. And yes, it's great to isolate certain rivets or windows.

I think you're doing great

Raya

[Amy M]

The caulk was 4200, I think. Not considered permanent, but not too squishy. But $20 of caulk that lasts 24 hours is not going to work for me.

This is the tape: http://www.3m.com/us/mfg_industrial/indtape/duct/

I hope you don't look at that link and scream, "Oh no! Not that one!" I really felt pressured to get something right away because it was just painful to walk into Clementine and see all the dripping and worry it was causing bigger problems. I explained to the boat guy what I was doing and he pointed me to this one.

Ah, sounds like those are the Scamp-type rivet caps then.

Which caulk did they sell you that has to be used so quickly? 3M 4000 maybe? (I don't know as much about that one so that's my guess )

Hmmm, now I'm curious which tape you got. And yes, it's great to isolate certain rivets or windows.

I think you're doing great

Raya

[Raya]

Amy,

I think you done good!

I've had tubes of 3M 4200 last much longer than 24 hours after opening - like weeks. So I don't understand that. Yes, it can start to harden at the nozzle, but not that quickly. Unless there is some new formulation of 4200 (do check the directions on the tube), I wouldn't worry about the 24-hour thing.
If you got the "toothpaste" style tube, you can just cap it. If it's a caulk-type tube, then I often "screw" an eye-bolt or a plain screw into it -- something that's thick enough to fill the hole.

Edit: Okay, when in doubt, read the directions I went to 3M's product data information, and looked up the 4200. It actually does say that one should use it within 24 hours of puncturing the tube. But, it's not because the product will go bad or not work, it's because of the potential for it to harden in the tube. I think you can work around that for a week or so, probably. Especially with the toothpaste style tube, you can often squeeze out a little bit of the hardened part and then grab onto it and pull it out, to expose fresh caulk. Here's what they actually say on the site:

Sealant should be used within 24 hours after inner seal is punctured, as product will start to cure in the
cartridge and nozzle.

Here's where you can read more. Just click on the "documentation" tab and then on the "Rev 2 tech data." Eek, that was huge; I "tiny urled" it because it was a huge link, but it is from the 3M website:

http://tinyurl.com/ygplugf

Although 4200 would be a perfectly good caulk to use on the windows, I would choose to use butyl tape on them and not caulk - the caulk would do the job but be MUCH messier and harder to work with (I'm not sure if you got the caulk just for the rivets or for the windows too - of course you want it for the rivets). One thing about 4200 is that it can yellow a bit in the sun, if you got the white color. Of course if it's under a cap, then no matter (and you actually need a caulk that "oranges" )

That tape looks fine. It may even be better than the 225. I see the "6 months outdoors" and that is a good thing I'm guessing it might be heavier duty/thicker than 225, which is more dainty than duct tape.

On the Jalousie windows, I bet you would probably be fine with just a strip across the top of the window. I have the exact same windows as you, and at least on mine, that was all that leaked. I figured I'd start with a strip across the top, and then check in out in the next rain. I put it on with about 1" on the camper body and 1" on the top part of the window frame (2" tape). I ran it out about 2" past the side of the windows, pressing it down so it would stick well.

Nothing else ever leaked. So that was less tape to deal with, and, more importantly, I was still able to open the windows --- I think it's really important to keep some ventilation up so you don't get mold. So with the tape only over the top of the window, you can leave them "cracked" for air. That's the beauty of the jalousie windows.

Raya

PS: It just registered on me that you are in Seattle. Oh, I'm jealous. And yes, the marine stores! (drool!) Did you go to Fisheries' Supply? That's a great store. And there are lots of others there too. Yeah, you're set

[Amy M]

[Edited to demonstrate better reading comprehension of your previous post.]


Lots of good info, as always. A quick question about sealants and rivets for you. The previous previous owner replaced all the old rivets with new rivets and a daub of silicone inside, then capped with plastic caps (he generously wrote back to me with all the details). This was done so recently and with such effort, that I hate the thought of redoing all of it. But at least a few are leaking. Do I have to remove them? Could I put a different sealant over the top or under the cap? If I do remove them and decide to just put rivets back in (yes, I have read threads and threads about rivets versus SS bolts and my mind has gone to mush and I just can't distill all that information into a plan of action), should I put sealant on the end of the rivet as it goes in? Or top it off with something? Are you saying that the 4200 would be the right one?

And I did, as a matter of fact, go to Fisheries Supply! I was driving from downtown to home and had a vague memory that there was a marine supply store near Gasworks Park, and that's where I ended up. So funny. I totally loved it. I managed to only come away with three items (the tape, the caulk, and a pivoting tongue jack), which I consider a significant victory.

PS: It just registered on me that you are in Seattle. Oh, I'm jealous. And yes, the marine stores! (drool!) Did you go to Fisheries' Supply? That's a great store. And there are lots of others there too. Yeah, you're set

[Frederick L. Simson]

And there's a certain pride about doing it yourself! You'll find lots of knowledge and help here on FiberglassRV, [b]none of us were born with the "maintenance gene." I know I wasn't!

I was.
It's recessive, though. Needs a lot of practice to nurture it.

_{OK, I'm going to my room, now.}

[Raya]

Hi Amy,

If you came away from Fisheries Supply with only three items, well, I'm impressed! That place is like a candy store for me. I like that it still has more of a real working-person's outlook than some of the more... shall we say "franchised" boating stores. And do get one of their catalogs; it's invaluable!

I hate to sound negative, but silicone is just a big ol' no-no. First of all, it doesn't seal all that well (as you are finding out). And second of all, it is a bugger to remove It also leaves behind an extremely hard to get rid of contaminating oil. This makes it very challenging to ever paint over, and even repels future sealants to a certain degree. Just mention it at a body and paint shop, and watch them recoil in horror

Yet for some reason, it seems to be very appealing to consumers ("friendly" clear jello-blox goodness?). Also, I've seen it recommended by store employees a number of time. To my mind there is always a better product to use.

So, I would say that you should remove the caps, the rivets, and the sealant and start over. At least on the leaking ones, and then you can do others as they start to leak. You want to try not to embed the silicone into the gelcoat more (so, no sanding). I would cut it away as much as possible with something like a razor blade (cut the corners off to not gouge) or a plastic razor blade (probably have them at Fisheries) or some homemade tool from a plastic knife or etc. It's not fun. When you get down to the stuff that won't come off that way, you can try "rolling" it off with your hands, and there is some "anti silicone" solvent available (I'm not sure how well it works).

Sometimes you will get lucky and it will peel right off. If so, count your blessings!

Since you are not planning to paint, you'll probably be okay with a bit of the oil left behind (invisible). Then just clean the area well with acetone (or denatured alcohol), and go about your new fastener.

Okay, so now you get to choose which new fastener!

There is the tried and true rivet, either with or without a cap (I prefer no cap, but that's a matter of taste). This has a hole in the middle that you have to dab caulk into.

There are rivets without holes, I believe, although I have not used them.

Then there are machine screws and nuts (essentially "nuts and bolts," but the head is tapered like a screw and will not stick up all big and hexy like a bolt head). This would be my choice if I were using fasteners. You can use acorn nuts on the inside and they will match what you have on the back of the rivet (or, at least, what the Bolers had from the builder). If you choose them, then we can help you with details.

Or you can "tab" the cabinetry to the shell, from the inside, with fiberglass, and forget having any fasteners through the shell. This would be my choice, but considering your experience level, I would probably recommend fasteners, unless you really want to go with this method (in other words, I'm not trying to say "Oh, too hard for little old you"; but I realize this is probably beyond what you are interested in right now).

Raya

[Amy M]

It seems like I have seen something along the lines of "For the love of Pete, no screws!" on this forum. Is there also a bolt versus screw debate?

I will need help. I think what I am going to need is a list of the exact things I will need to buy and then a step by step of how to fasten them (if I am to include sealant in the process). I did get a video of how to remove rivets with a drill, so I hope we've got that covered.

Being at the very bottom of a learning curve is very humbling.


Edited to add this old thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...++screws++caulk


I still don't entirely get what different pieces are recommended and how they go together.

Then there are machine screws and nuts (essentially "nuts and bolts," but the head is tapered like a screw and will not stick up all big and hexy like a bolt head). This would be my choice if I were using fasteners. You can use acorn nuts on the inside and they will match what you have on the back of the rivet (or, at least, what the Bolers had from the builder). If you choose them, then we can help you with details.

[Raya]

I think some people have the idea that the rivets are there as a "safety break," so that if there is flex in the trailer the rivets will break and not the fiberglass.

In my opinion, this is a fallacy. It's better to have the attachments stronger, not weaker, as that will strengthen the entire (monocoque) shell. Best, to my mind, would be to "tab" the components to the shell, like a fiberglass boat (picture them pounding through the waves).

I believe that rivets were used because they are adequate, and also much cheaper to install (faster and need only one worker), in a factory setting.

Again, this is not to say that rivets don't work, because they do; just that they are not necessary, or even "best" because they are rivets. (Note that other trailers, like the Trillium, do tab their "furniture" to the shell, and you don't see the fiberglass failing due to not having an easy "break point.")

[Raya]

Oh, about fasteners. Here is just a quick example of what you could use. There are possible variations, but to give a general idea. (And you can read about these at www.boltdepot.com or www.mcmaster.com

Starting at the top, outside the trailer:

1) A machine screw. I would choose a truss head (wider, like this one) but either way it would have this same basic shape. Stainless steel, either 304 grade (18-8) or 316 (slightly more corrosion resistant). By the way, a machine screw is flat on the bottom, like a "bolt." It's not like a screw that you normally think of, with a pointy end (would definitely not be a good idea!)





Okay, I guess images can't be too small, either. But just try finding large images of fasteners. Not easy! So this one (above) is a phillips head. I would choose a slotted head probably, for looks, but that is totally a matter of choice. If you want to stay authentically Canadian, use a Robertson head (square)


2) Optionally, next would come a washer (maybe not necessary with a truss head). People have used nylon washers here, or maybe rubber, or just caulk with a truss head and no washer.





3) The shell of the trailer.

4) Now you are inside. Optionally, a metal or nylon washer (although they were not used originally).





5) And last, a nut. Either regular, or Cap or Acorn (more expensive, but cuter).

Cap:



Acorn:



Voila! One type of option.

Raya

[Raya]

Okay, I'm trying to load the images again. Maybe in a new reply will help.

Nope, I still get the same failure message. Anyone else having this problem? (Images were .jpgs of about 10kb, so very small).

Here is the message:

Upload failed. Please ask the administrator to check the settings and permissions.



Donna hit the problem here (in a PM): The images were too small (less than 10k). So I found larger ones and added them above, no problem

Raya

[Amy M]

Okay. Thanks. So, is there any sealant used at any point with this? What size am I to get?

Am I having to do any drilling with this, or once the holes from removing rivets are there can I just use my hands and something to tighten?

Oh, about fasteners. Here is just a quick example of what you could use. There are possible variations, but to give a general idea. (And you can read about these at www.boltdepot.com or www.mcmaster.com

Starting at the top, outside the trailer: