Scamp 13' tongue weight and water tank

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Doghaus

Hi, I have been experiencing that on my way out for a weekend of camping, when my freshwater tank is partially full, my vehicle (AWD Honda Element) and Scamp doesn't handle as well as it does when I am coming home with the freshwater tank empty and black water tank partially full. I weighed the tongue last time before heading out and it was only 70 lbs. I think it is supposed to be 150? I tried putting as much heavy gear as I could in the front bathroom to change the balance, but I really don't bring much heavy stuff with me and it didn't make a difference in the handling. That freshwater tank is at the very rear of the camper, and I only put around 8 gallons in it, which is only about 50 lbs., would that be enough to affect the handling? What I mean by handling is just a sort of vague sense of the camper not pulling that easily. It's not swerving or swaying or anything, it just feels like a lot of dead weight is behind me slowing me down. When I'm heading home and the freshwater tank is empty I zip along and barely even notice that the camper is behind me. I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed this or if anyone knows what might be going on?

If it's not swaying things are OK. The Honda element is about the minimum you can tow your Scamp with. Any two will feel it a bit, even my Dakota 4.7l V8 is slowed down a bit.
Is this your first time towing?

[honda03842]

Heidi,

I live in NH and tow a Scamp 16 with a Honda CRV, a vehicle very similar to your Element. We towed it for 315 days this year all over the USA without any issues.

If you like I would be willing to weigh your tongue once the storm calms down. I don't know where you live in NH but we live in Hampton, near the beach where the winds right now are pretty high.

I use a bathroom scale and it is easy to get an accurate reading.

As to towing loading, the amount of water you carry can effect your trailer's front to rear balance but really does not have much effect on your towing ability. Most of the load on your tow vehicle is the result of air resistance and not weight unless you are doing a lot of big hill climbing and there are not many of those around here.

I did not notice what your typical tow speeds are. In our case we do not tow at higher than 60 mph.

Hope this helps. If you want to meet or chat don't hesitate to PM me.

We'd be glad to share what we know.

[DogHaus]

Hello spring! So I got the Scamp out yesterday and brought it to a very level parking lot - even brought my 4' level along to make sure - and checked levelness of the camper. It is definitely nose high with the 2-3/4" rise tow bar I have been using for the past two seasons! yikes.
So tried a 3/4" rise bar that I happened to have, and it was still slightly nose high.
I turned that bar over to make it a 2" drop and the nose of the trailer was now lower than level.
I don't think I can achieve "level" with these options and I could not find another option for a bar that has less than a 2" drop at the store yesterday. Do I just go with the 2" drop? How much is too much?

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

If it's not swaying things are OK. The Honda element is about the minimum you can tow your Scamp with. Any two will feel it a bit, even my Dakota 4.7l V8 is slowed down a bit.
Is this your first time towing?

Really? I towed mine with a Scion xD. This is basically a Toyota Yaris (subcompact) with a 1.8 liter engine. Towed just fine.

[mcbrew]

Originally Posted by Doghaus

Hello spring! So I got the Scamp out yesterday and brought it to a very level parking lot - even brought my 4' level along to make sure - and checked levelness of the camper. It is definitely nose high with the 2-3/4" rise tow bar I have been using for the past two seasons! yikes.
So tried a 3/4" rise bar that I happened to have, and it was still slightly nose high.
I turned that bar over to make it a 2" drop and the nose of the trailer was now lower than level.
I don't think I can achieve "level" with these options and I could not find another option for a bar that has less than a 2" drop at the store yesterday. Do I just go with the 2" drop? How much is too much?

You can get different tow bars. Check etrailer.com.

Other than to help balance your trailer, try to keep most weight over the axle. Even if you are balanced well, a lot of weight out at the ends will handle worse because of the outboard mass. Imagine it this way: if you have a see saw, you could put a 50 pound kid on either side and it would be balanced. You could pretty easily move the see saw up and down. Now imagine if you had an elephant of either side. It may be balanced, but there is a lot of mass on either side to move. It isn't going to want to get moving as easily, and it isn't going to want to stop moving or change directions as easily, either.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Doghaus

Hello spring! So I got the Scamp out yesterday and brought it to a very level parking lot - even brought my 4' level along to make sure - and checked levelness of the camper. It is definitely nose high with the 2-3/4" rise tow bar I have been using for the past two seasons! yikes.
So tried a 3/4" rise bar that I happened to have, and it was still slightly nose high.
I turned that bar over to make it a 2" drop and the nose of the trailer was now lower than level.
I don't think I can achieve "level" with these options and I could not find another option for a bar that has less than a 2" drop at the store yesterday. Do I just go with the 2" drop? How much is too much?

Slightly nose down is more stable than nose up, don't forget that if your TV was loaded for a trip it might come down a little as well.
In this case close really is good enough.

[cpaharley2008]

Why not get an adjustable one, you can make it perfect Adjustable Ball Mount Ball Mounts | etrailer.com

[DogHaus]

Thanks! I saw those adjustable ones, but want to keep it minimal down there. I have only so much vertical clearance between the tailgait when it is open, and the ground. I think I'll go with the 2" drop and see how my next trip goes.
Need to shorten the safety chains now. They ARE touching the ground.

[cpaharley2008]

Don't cut the chains, just twist to shorten them.

[Bob Miller]

The adjustable drawbars are only useful with a larger truck. In most cases on SUV's, cross-overs, small trucks and sedans the lowest part of the drawbar will be forever bottoming out and dragging on driveways. Been there.

[DogHaus]

I think I figured it out. I'm uploading three photos:
First is the trailer standing level, not hitched up, on a concrete pad that may not be exactly level but I think is ok to do this experiment on. It looks worse in the photo than it really is. Measured with a tape measure to top of the tongue, on top of where the ball would be: 15"
Second is the way I have been towing using 2.25" rise: 17.5" to top of tongue (not good!)
Third is what I think I will start doing, use a 2" drop: 13.5" to top of tongue.
I'll install this properly and drive it out to a really level spot and measure again.
Am I on the right track?

[Francesca Knowles]

Half a bubble off to the nose-down side should tow great.

Won't bother the fridge, either, assuming level's the same inside the trailer. If you're curious about that, you can check it by putting a level inside the fridge itself once hooked up.

Francesca

[DogHaus]

Thank you Francesca!
(no fridge - icebox!)

[Brian B-P]

I would avoid any adjustable height ball mount, because it means one more connection to rattle, and because they are usually long, forcing the ball (and thus the trailer weight) further back unnecessarily. They also add a bit of weight in the last place I would want it. They usually don't adjust in much finer steps than the choices of fixed ball mount, anyway.

For a single axle trailer, I agree that you only need to be close, and a bit low is better than any amount high.

For the truly obsessive, extra-tall balls are available to add one more inch. I wouldn't bother.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

The adjustable drawbars are only useful with a larger truck. In most cases on SUV's, cross-overs, small trucks and sedans the lowest part of the drawbar will be forever bottoming out and dragging on driveways. Been there.

they can be reversed, if need be...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

... the lowest part of the drawbar will be forever bottoming out and dragging on driveways.

That's true of the typical design with a vertical column and a head that moves along it, when used in the drop position. There are some designs in which the column is the moveable part, with the ball platform at the bottom, so the extra length doesn't hang down when used for drop. Some examples from eTrailer:
Convert-A-Ball
MaxxTow
Reese
There is (or was) also a Master Lock version which steplessly adjusts with a screw, so you can reach any desired height, not just fixed increments.

The situation is reversed in the rise position. Most adjustable mounts can probably be used either way, but that is something to check.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Don't cut the chains, just twist to shorten them.

I don't think there's any situation in which twisting a chain is appropriate, but I suppose if it is much stronger than required it could be compromised without harm.

[Francesca Knowles]

I've always thought twisting chains to shorten them was a bad idea, but it turns out that's actually a recommended practice.

Here's one set of instructions, from Trailer Safety

SAFETY CHAINS CAN PREVENT RUNAWAY
TRAILER in case hitch/coupler fails.
1. Always use safety chains when towing.
2. Cross safety chains under coupling to prevent tongue from
dropping to ground.
3. Allow only enough slack for tight turns.
4. Do not let safety chains drag on ground.
5. Twist safety chains equally from hook ends to take up slack.
6. Use safety chains rated equal to or greater than twice the
maximum gross trailer weight rating.

And here's what U-Haul says:

Control slack by hooking the chain back to itself or by twisting the links to shorten chain.

Francesca

[Brian B-P]

I put zero faith in advice from U-Haul, the company which advises customers to vastly exceed their vehicles' rated limits.

I won't be taking towing advice from Miller Electric Mfg, the apparent publisher of the PDF doument, or Generator Joe who posted it, but I would be interested in more authoritative sources of this chain-twisting information.

[Francesca Knowles]

Point of Order!

Usual practice when disputing the authority of a posted source is to post a source considered to be more authoritative, and supportive of the opposing view.

Whatcha got, Brian?

Francesca